The 101 vacated wins...

[A Clockwork Orange]

I was just rereading the sanctions against SU, and they are without a doubt the most punitive and arbitrary penalties in the history of college sports.

• Five players (three football players and two basketball) received $8,000 from the Oneida YMCA over the course of 14 months. That totals out to about $115 a month.
  • Let's be clear - they ACTUALLY did work for the YMCA. So it's not like they were just getting the 100-dollar handshake.
  • Given the NCAA recognizing how idiotic its own rules were regarding amateurism, and given how flagrantly universities are now flouting the new rules, the above seems downright quaint in retrospect.
• Fab Melo didn't speak great English and failed a class. He needed to rewrite a paper and get a B+ to qualify. He was academically ineligible by literally one class, and one paper in that class. He rewrote it, and the professor decided it wasn't good enough. Apparently, according to metadata, academic tutors in athletics rewrote the paper and resubmitted it two hours later.
  • First - I would love to know what the metadata showed. Did they sit down and work with Fab on their computers? Or did they do it on their own?
  • Second - the entire idea to have Fab rewrite the paper and resubmit was deemed perfectly okay by the NCAA. The trouble comes in with the metadata above.
  • Third - in everything I've read the academic tutors never said they rewrote the whole thing. So was this them sitting down with Fab and using their computers to rewrite the paper with him there? As a native Brazilian who admittedly did not speak English well, did the tutors help him with the rewrite based on the language barrier? In most places in higher education (I'm a professor) this practice is actually encouraged by profs who have students for whom English is their second language.

I would love to know all the details about the ONE paper that he received a poor grade on and ended up sullying his eligibility.

Remember - the internal drug policy was not a part of the NCAA sanctions. The two above infractions were what the NCAA used to do the following:

• Vacate 101 wins.
• A four-year reduction of 12 scholarships (later moved down to 8).
• A 9-game suspension for Boeheim.

This probe by the NCAA covered all years from 2001 to 2012. The probe took nearly 8 years (internal review and then the NCAA Infractions Committee review) to complete. The above is what it found. I would LOVE to see what the NCAA would find at almost any other school in 8 years and covering a 10-year period. My guess is much worse.

My tinfoil theory: The NCAA had egg on its face for the Penn State debacle and when the Bernie Fine scandal broke it decided to make an example of the Syracuse program regardless of what it found. The Fine scandal broke in 2011 and the NCAA issued its Notice of Allegations shortly thereafter with the NCAA investigation beginning in February 2012.

Literally all that nonsense for 100 bucks a month for 14 months to two basketball players, and one potentially doctored paper. As I said above, the most punitive punishment ever for what the NCAA actually found. The program has been on a death spiral since those sanctions.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The program has been on a death spiral since those sanctions.

Atta boy, someone needs to keep the sanctions torch alive.

 

[Brooky03]

I don’t know how long this thread will stay up, but yes, it was almost assuredly a proxy punishment for the Bernie Fine scandal. Nobody will change my mind about that.

My understanding is that the university could have ponied up the dough to take the NCAA behind the woodshed in court and didn’t. But I’m out of my depth there.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

Atta boy, someone needs to keep the sanctions torch alive.

Don't misunderstand! That's certainly not the only reason. Hop leaving, Coach B. being too set in his ways, and recruiting going down the tubes (I think that can be equally attributed to B., the loss of Hop, the sanctions kicking it off, and our assistants being good but not great recruiters ala Troy Weaver and Mike Hopkins).

I mean, I don't feel like any of those things need to be mutually exclusive.

 

[SUGIANT]

Death Spiral? I think Luke is my son, or maybe a cousin…

 

[goofnoff]

I know what it is about between SU and the NCAA. But the moderators here WOULD NEVER let me say it. The temptation is overwhelming but I have to leave it at that. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

 

[Ragman2000]

I know what it is about between SU and the NCAA. But the moderators here WOULD NEVER let me say it. The temptation is overwhelming but I have to leave it at that. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

 

[goofnoff]

If that means what I think it does, I won't say it, anyway.

 

[PauliePeppas]

I know what it is about between SU and the NCAA. But the moderators here WOULD NEVER let me say it. The temptation is overwhelming but I have to leave it at that. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Hmmm

 

[Col. Bleep]

Agreed that the sanctions were much too severe.
The punishment didn't fit the "crimes."
And taking away wins is imbecilic.

But I'm of the opinion that Fab Melo should not have attended any university where English was the primary language.
And it seems pretty clear that various others improperly lobbied a professor and did the "dirty work" on the paper(s) submitted under Melo's name.

Academic concerns noted in NCAA report include questions about Fab Melo

Academic concerns are noted several times in the NCAA report.

cnycentral.com

However, even this seems like more temperate behavior given what UNC got away with.

 

[goofnoff]

Agreed that the sanctions were much too severe.
The punishment didn't fit the "crimes."
And taking away wins is imbecilic.

But I'm of the opinion that Fab Melo should not have attended any university where English was the primary language.
And it seems pretty clear that various others improperly lobbied a professor and did the "dirty work" on the paper(s) submitted under Melo's name.

Academic concerns noted in NCAA report include questions about Fab Melo

Academic concerns are noted several times in the NCAA report.

cnycentral.com

However, even this seems like more temperate behavior given what UNC got away with.

Ya think!

I'd love to give a few tests to some of those SEC players I hear in interviews.

 

[orangefog]

I know what it is about between SU and the NCAA. But the moderators here WOULD NEVER let me say it. The temptation is overwhelming but I have to leave it at that. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Because he picks his nose?

 

[goofnoff]

Because he picks his nose?

I asked for that. Touche!

 

[stuckinbig11]

a la UNC that got away with fake classes, SU should not be punished for players getting paid to work at a YMCA because non-athlete students are allowed to do so also

 

[GoCuse14]

Ya think!

I'd love to give a few tests to some of those SEC players I hear in interviews.

Umm...why is that? Are you equating the way a teenager or early 20 year old speaks with intelligence? Because you should probably watch that. Really borderline comment.

 

[RF2044]

Agreed that the sanctions were much too severe.
The punishment didn't fit the "crimes."
And taking away wins is imbecilic.

But I'm of the opinion that Fab Melo should not have attended any university where English was the primary language.
And it seems pretty clear that various others improperly lobbied a professor and did the "dirty work" on the paper(s) submitted under Melo's name.

Academic concerns noted in NCAA report include questions about Fab Melo

Academic concerns are noted several times in the NCAA report.

cnycentral.com

However, even this seems like more temperate behavior given what UNC got away with.

I don't think that's "pretty clear." It might seem unseemly, but it was within bounds to ask the professor. He / she could have said no.

From what I understand, the resubmitted paper was rejected because it didn't have proper citations. The academic support resources adjusted the paper by adding citations. They didn't "write" the paper for Fab Melo. That's what got flagged by the NCAA, improper changes to the paper, even though they didn't change any of the content beyond the citations.

As for the YMCA payments, the issue wasn't that it was improper for them to be paid the token amount. It's that they got paid to ref games in a tournament that the NCAA was hosting, and the YMCA didn't document it properly.

Administrivia.

Agree with the OP that these penalties were the most arbitrary, capricious, and misaligned with precedent that the NCAA has handed down. And others were allowed to skate virtually penalty free for far more egregious violations.

 

[grepal]

Atta boy, someone needs to keep the sanctions torch alive.

I think the information summarized above would be a good basis for some sort of action to give coach and the program back the wins. I don't buy that recruiting the last few years has been at all affected by the old sanctions, it is obvious to me that recruits have a concern as to how long coach will be coach, and what the program will look like when he is gone. Sure, some may use coaches' age as a negative recruiting tool. Every player looking at SU has to have that thought in his head. Our guys just need to keep working around that disadvantage. The program can and does still compete. Last year was not the new normal, it was the best shooting but least athletic and worse defensive Syracuse team I have seen in my many years as a Syracuse fan. I watched before JAB was here. This year we are young and raw, but we will keep getting better

 

[MikeSU02]

It's gross that he got his wins taken away and they need to reinstate them before he is gone (sorry to be morbid).

It's absolutely abhorrent and it will be looked back upon with disgust if they wait too long to make this right.

Legitimately, this makes me angry.

 

[djcon57]

I'd like to know the consequences for ignoring the vacated wins and recognize them again officially within the university.

 

[goofnoff]

Umm...why is that? Are you equating the way a teenager or early 20 year old speaks with intelligence? Because you should probably watch that. Really borderline comment.

Intelligence isn't the issue. Try literacy.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't think that's "pretty clear." It might seem unseemly, but it was within bounds to ask the professor. He / she could have said no.

From what I understand, the resubmitted paper was rejected because it didn't have proper citations. The academic support resources adjusted the paper by adding citations. They didn't "write" the paper for Fab Melo. That's what got flagged by the NCAA, improper changes to the paper, even though they didn't change any of the content beyond the citations.

As for the YMCA payments, the issue wasn't that it was improper for them to be paid the token amount. It's that they got paid to ref games in a tournament that the NCAA was hosting, and the YMCA didn't document it properly.

Administrivia.

Agree with the OP that these penalties were the most arbitrary, capricious, and misaligned with precedent that the NCAA has handed down. And others were allowed to skate virtually penalty free for far more egregious violations.

This is how I remember it. I also remember (but possibly incorrectly) that the paper was essentially an autobiography which made it even more hilarious that there was an issue with citations.

 

[Newhouser]

So the school thinks they could have beat the case if they would have ponied up the money and opted against that? Why?

 

[RF2044]

This is how I remember it. I also remember (but possibly incorrectly) that the paper was essentially an autobiography which made it even more hilarious that there was an issue with citations.

I think that's right -- it was a paper about his life.

 

[kirbivore]

I don’t know how long this thread will stay up, but yes, it was almost assuredly a proxy punishment for the Bernie Fine scandal. Nobody will change my mind about that.

That proxy punishment was also issued in the 2012 Elite 8 vs. Ohio St. Most crooked ref game I've ever seen outside Donoghy.

 

[orangefog]

This is how I remember it. I also remember (but possibly incorrectly) that the paper was essentially an autobiography which made it even more hilarious that there was an issue with citations.

Did it include an anecdote about a run in with the Van Buren boys?