The bad loss label

[Sgt Cuse]

It seems a lot of talk around SU as having more bad losses than most and how it affects the possibility of getting into the NCAAT. But when I look at it, it seems OOC the losses were SC, Wisky, St Johns, UConn and Georgetown. Not a bad name in there. The numbers probably aren't good but the names of the programs and our history with them don't make any cringe-worthy. It is not like getting beat by no-name middle of the pack mid majors.

All the rest of the losses were in conference with only the BC away loss being of any note.

I hope the NCAA doesn't overpenalize SU for playing old rivals OOC. It would be bad for the sport.

I would trade calling Monmouth an excellent victory and not calling the 3 old Big East schools bad losses. SU had a big time schedule.

I think the NCAA will be able to see this, and find a way to make a spot for SU in the play-in game (and getting the best ratings for the play-in games ever won't be a detrimental factor at all).

 

[Jasoncuse]

Those are considered bad losses because those teams suck. Doesn't matter what the names are.

 

[cusetown1]

10 seed that's what I'm calling.

 

[longislandcuse]

Those are considered bad losses because those teams suck. Doesn't matter what the names are.

That wasn't his point. The point he made was actually a very good one.

There is a big difference in a bad GTown/UConn/St Johns vs Syracuse and vs Everyone else.

If we're penalized because we lost to bad teams in what are traditionally tougher games (rivalry games) then we should immediately cancel any OOC games against those teams and replace them with similar bad teams who we don't have bad blood or history with.

...and yes, that's bad for a sport in which the regular season already sucks.

 

[OrangeDW]

"NCAA basketball! All about the passion and the rivalries and the love of the game!!! Throw the record books out when these two teams match up!!!"

But...

"The names don't matter when picking the tourney and when deciding bad losses, just crunch some numbers. No room for things like rivalries that can't be quantified with some nerd stat."

Hmmm.

 

[OrangeDW]

That wasn't his point. The point he made was actually a very good one.

There is a big difference in a bad GTown/UConn/St Johns vs Syracuse and vs Everyone else.

If we're penalized because we lost to bad teams in what are traditionally tougher games (rivalry games) then we should immediately cancel any OOC games against those teams and replace them with similar bad teams who we don't have bad blood or history with.

...and yes, that's bad for a sport in which the regular season already sucks.

Agreed. We're playing our old rivals, often on their courts or neutral courts when we really don't have to. And if we lose, we get clowns like Gottlieb screaming about how no team that loses one game to St. John's should be in the tourney. We could just dump those three teams and bring in three more Monmouths to the Dome...teams that a lot of the dorks out there really like and like to cry for come NCAA time, and we'll roll them by 25 everytime.

 

[HOFCeluck]

...Or just don't lose to bad teams. At home.

 

[OrangeZeus]

Everyone is quick to say we have bad non-conference losses to Georgetown (RPI 107), UConn (RPI 110), and St. John's (RPI 126). But for what it's worth, Georgia Tech's RPI now stands at 106 and they were on the bubble until they lost to Pitt. I don't think the Georgetown and UConn losses are nearly as bad as the media is making them out to be, unless we are prepared to call the Georgia Tech loss a bad loss too.

We were competitive in each of those losses except for St. John's. Against Georgetown we were down 71-67 with 28 seconds left and some free throws down the stretch made it a 7 point loss. The UConn game came down to a missed box out. The Georgia Tech game came down to a questionable moving pick foul call on Roberson. Now the St. John's game was pathetic. You could literally see our team had given up and weren't even bothering to run back on defense.

We competed in a few top 50 losses like home against Louisville and the last game against Miami. We also got blown out in some top 50 matches like @Louisville, @ND, @UNC, and @Wiscy, but those losses aren't too significant given the caliber of the teams and the fact they were road games. We lost on the road at Pitt after making a good comeback to bring it within 3 points in the closing seconds before they hit two more free throws.

To me, we really only have two bad losses out of our 14 losses: the St. John's loss as I previously mentioned, and the BC loss that the media doesn't really talk about for some reason. The BC game they shot 61.5% from deep. Obviously that's partly our bad defense that game, but some night's a team is just hot.

I'm assuming the committee won't take that close of a look into our games like I just did above, and I'm not sure if the score of games is taken into consideration (I thought I heard in the past that it's not). But to me, our eight top 100 wins and six top 50 wins should be enough to counteract the two bad losses.

And one last note to add... St. John's split with Marquette and Providence who are right alongside us on the bubble.

 

[SUMBA]

It seems a lot of talk around SU as having more bad losses than most and how it affects the possibility of getting into the NCAAT. But when I look at it, it seems OOC the losses were SC, Wisky, St Johns, UConn and Georgetown. Not a bad name in there. The numbers probably aren't good but the names of the programs and our history with them don't make any cringe-worthy. It is not like getting beat by no-name middle of the pack mid majors.

All the rest of the losses were in conference with only the BC away loss being of any note.

I hope the NCAA doesn't overpenalize SU for playing old rivals OOC. It would be bad for the sport.

I would trade calling Monmouth an excellent victory and not calling the 3 old Big East schools bad losses. SU had a big time schedule.

I think the NCAA will be able to see this, and find a way to make a spot for SU in the play-in game (and getting the best ratings for the play-in games ever won't be a detrimental factor at all).

The committee won't penalize us for playing old rivals OOC, but it will penalize us for losing to them.

 

[orangecuse]

Everyone is quick to say we have bad non-conference losses to Georgetown (RPI 107), UConn (RPI 110), and St. John's (RPI 126).[/B][/I] But for what it's worth, Georgia Tech's RPI now stands at 106 and they were on the bubble until they lost to Pitt. I don't think the Georgetown and UConn losses are nearly as bad as the media is making them out to be, unless we are prepared to call the Georgia Tech loss a bad loss too.

We were competitive in each of those losses except for St. John's. Against Georgetown we were down 71-67 with 28 seconds left and some free throws down the stretch made it a 7 point loss. The UConn game came down to a missed box out. The Georgia Tech game came down to a questionable moving pick foul call on Roberson. Now the St. John's game was pathetic. You could literally see our team had given up and weren't even bothering to run back on defense.

We competed in a few top 50 losses like home against Louisville and the last game against Miami. We also got blown out in some top 50 matches like @Louisville, @ND, @UNC, and @Wiscy, but those losses aren't too significant given the caliber of the teams and the fact they were road games. We lost on the road at Pitt after making a good comeback to bring it within 3 points in the closing seconds before they hit two more free throws.

To me, we really only have two bad losses out of our 14 losses: the St. John's loss as I previously mentioned, and the BC loss that the media doesn't really talk about for some reason. The BC game they shot 61.5% from deep. Obviously that's partly our bad defense that game, but some night's a team is just hot.

I'm assuming the committee won't take that close of a look into our games like I just did above, and I'm not sure if the score of games is taken into consideration (I thought I heard in the past that it's not). But to me, our eight top 100 wins and six top 50 wins should be enough to counteract the two bad losses.

And one last note to add... St. John's split with Marquette and Providence who are right alongside us on the bubble.

Hopefully, too, the committee remembers that those three teams play us and RISE up as it's their Super Bowl.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Hopefully, too, the committee remembers that those three teams play us and RISE up as it's their Super Bowl.

Ha. Good try, though.

 

[SUMBA]

Agreed. We're playing our old rivals, often on their courts or neutral courts when we really don't have to. And if we lose, we get clowns like Gottlieb screaming about how no team that loses one game to St. John's should be in the tourney. We could just dump those three teams and bring in three more Monmouths to the Dome...teams that a lot of the dorks out there really like and like to cry for come NCAA time, and we'll roll them by 25 everytime.

We need games in the Northeast against good competition for recruiting. We have taken a lot of good players from DC, Philly, and NYC/NJ and need this pipeline to continue.

 

[Col. Bleep]

SC, Wisky, St Johns, UConn and Georgetown. Not a bad name in there.

First of all...there's no name worse than G-town. And Connecticut isn't all that far behind.
As someone who was at both of those games...they weren't bad losses...they were AWFUL embarrassing losses.
UConn was the worst played basketball game (by both teams) that I have ever seen at any level.

The only hope the Orange have of getting any mitigation is if tourney selection committee members say, "Well, Syracuse was full of newcomers and hadn't jelled yet." And that appears a long shot.

 

[PhatOrange]

Why do bad losses weigh more heavily to people than good wins?. I think our top wins outweigh our bad losses. Which were also early season.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

The real question is do we get in if you replace Gtown/Uconn/st.j with Binghamton/st. Joes/Siena?

Because that's what our old OCC looked like.

 

[cuse522]

The real question is do we get in if you replace Gtown/Uconn/st.j with Binghamton/st. Joes/Siena?

Because that's what our old OCC looked like.

And make them wins? Yes, 18-14 becomes 21-11 and we're not even on the bubble... Our RPI goes from 85 to 65, assuming we played them all at home. Our SOS goes from 55 to 61.