The Downside- Florida State | Syracusefan.com

The Downside- Florida State

SWC75

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- Before the game, Matt Park and Jimmy Satalin were marveling at Florida State as the biggest and deepest team in the nation. This made me sad because we were supposed to be a team that could put a line-up out there that went 7-2, 6-10, 6-9, 6-6, 6-4 and go 10 deep. We should have been the perfect team to match-up against the Seminoles. Moyer got hurt and red-shirted. But Chukwu took a basketball in the eye. Coleman couldn’t move or jump. Lydon couldn’t handle the 3 spot and White was a better college forward than a guard. Frank Howard got beaten out by John Gillon. So we’re down to 6 guys and go 6-9, 6-10 or 8, 6-6, 6-6, 6-0 (if he hops up and down). We found a way to win anyway but we still aren’t the team we should have been.

- I wish we could go back and play the teams we lost to and play like this. But I think that’s against the rules.

- Tyler Roberson at the foul line: 0 for 6. Geesh! They weren’t even close. He’s John Gillon’s evil twin: if he’s out there at the end of a close game, we’ve got to keep the ball out of his hands or it’s the equivalent of a turnover.

- Frank Howard didn’t seem to know what he was doing out there. On one possession he came across the midcourt line and stood there while two guys trapped him, then tried to make an awkward pass underneath their arms. It was tapped away for a turnover. Satalin said “You learn not to do that in grade school.”

- Taurean Thompson’s foul troubles, (typical of a freshman big man), continued. He was held to 7 minutes played with 4 fouls. That forces JB to use Roberson, who is an offensive liability and a foul line disaster.

- I hate to complain about the guy who sealed the win for us but John Gillon still needs to develop a better instinct about his drives. At Colorado State they wanted him to “take it to the hole” and he’s found the defense can easily stop that if the know it’s coming and you aren’t really six feet tall. JB told him to look to pass and for much of the game he was doing that almost exclusively, even to the point of giving up and open shot to pass to a guy who was covered because he’s supposed to pass. He stopped doing that and instead went to a floater that he was praying would go in an rarely did, (he was 1 for 4 on two point shots). He’ll really be able to take the greatest advantage of his talents if he realizes when to drive and when to pass. That’s still a work in progress.

- A big factor in Florida State’s comeback was that the refs called nothing under the basket on our end but got whistle happy on the other end. It doesn’t show up in the box score because the Seminoles were intentionally fouling at the end. For much of the second half we couldn’t get anything inside because of the way the game was called.

- Another factor in the comeback was that we didn’t maintain the defensive intensity of the first half in the second, until the game got close and then we had to respond. It was probably too much to hope for but I was hoping we could get off to a good start in the second half and not have to sweat things out. But nothing good is ever easy.

 
I can't wait to watch this game on DVR because I was so hysterical during it that there is a lot I don't remember. Your woulda coulda shouldas cracked me up!
 
-

- Taurean Thompson’s foul troubles, (typical of a freshman big man), continued. He was held to 7 minutes played with 4 fouls. That forces JB to use Roberson, who is an offensive liability and a foul line disaster.

Nice recap... I do have a small difference of opinion on TT. I wish I could see our +/- with Roberson at the 4 and Lydon at the 5 vs. Lydon 4 TT 5... I think it would be rather heavily in favor of the Robey lineup.

Yes TT is better on offense. Yes it would be great if Robey had a 10 footer (though didn't he drain one today?) or any post moves. We have 4 other guys who can score on offense (if we get the "good Gillon") and the difference in rebounding and defensive gains more than makes up for it. This is not just Roberson, as Lydon is an excellent 5 so we lose something putting him at the 4.
 
I thought that FlaSt got away with a lot of hand checks and arm bars, particularly in the first half. Wasn't this supposed to be a point of emphasis?
 
SWC75, you're rougher on the team when they win than when they lose. I liked the line about Gillon being 6 feet if he's hopping up and down.
 
"Forces JB to use Roberson, who is an offensive liability and a foul line disaster."

tyler roberson played 33 minutes underneath today. anyone who by now doesn't appreciate his inside game never will.
stats don't always tell the whole story of the battles underneath. don't see his game today even given the fts as a downside at all.
 
Some takeaways from the 2nd half:

FSU matched XRM with Gillon in terms of XRM starting the offense on the Gillon side of the zone...Just shooting over Gillon time after time. Made like 3 or 4 3's over him.

Dwayne Bacon in the middle of the zone offense, dude just hit mid range after mid range on us.

Lastly, and most important, Jonathan Issac attached to the hip of Lydon on defense... just forcing Lydon to create for himself and forcing him to put it on the floor. (Two things Lydon is not good at).

Thought overall a good game, would have been upset with Cuse blowing a 17 point lead at home... would have been very upset. Also from a student perspective, storming the court was weird... a lot of "experts" didn't like the move... thought it was fitting until was on the court and realized how crowded and weird it was for tons of students to just stand there lol.
 
In consistency and turnovers did not hurt us today but they will on most days. FSU had an off day missing four dunks and making lots of unforced errors.
 
"Forces JB to use Roberson, who is an offensive liability and a foul line disaster."

tyler roberson played 33 minutes underneath today. anyone who by now doesn't appreciate his inside game never will.
stats don't always tell the whole story of the battles underneath. don't see his game today even given the fts as a downside at all.


Nonetheless, JB would play Thompson more if he didn't get in foul trouble. Actually the two points are connected: Thompson isn't nearly as good inside as Roberson so he commits more fouls. It would be great if we could somehow combine Thompson's offensive game with Roberson's defense and rebounding but I think that's against the rules, too.
 
i think the FT thing gets mental the more you miss. anyone who's watched syracuse basketball has a masters degree in this enigma.
 
well to be consistent i've posted after the past couple games you don't blame losses on players who only logged 10 minutes.
well to be fair playing 33 minutes gives you a good share of the win. regardless of free throws.
 
- Frank Howard didn’t seem to know what he was doing out there. On one possession he came across the midcourt line and stood there while two guys trapped him, then tried to make an awkward pass underneath their arms. It was tapped away for a turnover. Satalin said “You learn not to do that in grade school.”

I'm with you on the notion that it wasn't a good showing from Howard, but I didn't think it was disastrous at all. I still say that if he's not entirely despised in the lockerroom that it would great to get him back to the point of being able to contribute 8-10 mpg. I believe he's capable of this since, well, he did it during a final four run (10 mpg in that five-game run, 18 mins in our ACC tournament game).

Thought the travel call was weak and he made a nice aggressive drive and kick there, thought he had a few really nice passes and nice to see him hit a short J. I'm hoping he can build on that and get away from what seem like really careless, confusing mental lapses. The two turnovers other than the travel were just bizarrely bad plays that felt like lack of intensity. Not pretty but I'm hoping the positives can be built on and he can become a guy capable of giving Gillon/Battle a breather from time to time. Particularly since Gillon -- who had a phenomenal game -- was coming off 5 straight games in single digits and has had two or fewer FGs in 8 of his last 10. I'm not looking to trash Gillon after a good game, but being able to get him off the floor occasionally would be a nice thing.
 
SWC said "I hate to complain about the guy who sealed the win for us but John Gillon still needs to develop a better instinct about his drives. ..."

Yes, but you can find similar faults with our other players, and some others aren't able to make individual dribble moves at all, when closely guarded. Lydon had some great individual plays, but he struggles trying to put the ball on the floor. He did not miss a lot of shots, because he wasn't able to get his shots. Battle looks great on his occasional drive and finish, but he wasn't doing that in clutch time. After the big 3 by White off Battle's save, the one guy who was making moves in the clutch was John Gillon. He was able to get that 6ft floater (though he missed it) when others were bottled up. His speed prevented Fla State from having any success with its press.

So, maybe less complaining about Gillon is in order.
 
SWC said "I hate to complain about the guy who sealed the win for us but John Gillon still needs to develop a better instinct about his drives. ..."

Yes, but you can find similar faults with our other players, and some others aren't able to make individual dribble moves at all, when closely guarded. Lydon had some great individual plays, but he struggles trying to put the ball on the floor. He did not miss a lot of shots, because he wasn't able to get his shots. Battle looks great on his occasional drive and finish, but he wasn't doing that in clutch time. After the big 3 by White off Battle's save, the one guy who was making moves in the clutch was John Gillon. He was able to get that 6ft floater (though he missed it) when others were bottled up. His speed prevented Fla State from having any success with its press.

So, maybe less complaining about Gillon is in order.


He could be better than he is and knowing when to drive and when to dish is the thing that could make him better. I'm not going to not say that just because other players have limitations.
 
Nice recap... I do have a small difference of opinion on TT. I wish I could see our +/- with Roberson at the 4 and Lydon at the 5 vs. Lydon 4 TT 5... I think it would be rather heavily in favor of the Robey lineup.

Yes TT is better on offense. Yes it would be great if Robey had a 10 footer (though didn't he drain one today?) or any post moves. We have 4 other guys who can score on offense (if we get the "good Gillon") and the difference in rebounding and defensive gains more than makes up for it. This is not just Roberson, as Lydon is an excellent 5 so we lose something putting him at the 4.


Robey was a head scratcher for me today. On one hand he did some really good things. He finished layups and had 5 field goals. His numbers on the boards weren't great, but not terrible when looked at in the context that he was battling a much much bigger FSU frontline and the officials seemed to call a foul on us for any athletic looking play that secured a rebound or block for us.

That said his 0-6 from the FT line were effectively 3 or 4 turnovers that are not recorded as such. He also had a head scratching turnover at half court where he was trying to track down a loose ball. It looked like he had it in hand, but rather than secure it he looked elsewhere, misjudged where the ball was and kicked it out of bounds....who does that? Well in fairnness, AWIII does it. I think he did essentially the same thing twice in the game. This is stuff that makes TR such a headscratcher. At times he does amazing things and then follows it up with a stretch of play where he looks like he still has the Freshman yips.
 

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