The Downside- FSU II

[SWC75]

- The late comeback was a valiant effort. When the NCAA committee meets, they will look at good wins and bad losses. They will not then say “Let’s take a look at the valiant efforts.” If Pittsburgh is our first round opponent in the ACC tournament, get ready for the NIT. 19-13 with 5 losses in 6 games is surely the bottom of the bubble.


- For fun, let’s take a look at the first game and compare it to this one. Keep in mind this not just measuring how much worse we played this time but also how much better they played. In that game we shot 70% from two point range: they shot 49%. In this game both teams shot 60%. We did a very poor job of keeping them out of the paint. It’s frustrating watching other teams exploit us from the high post while we never go there at all.


- It wasn’t three pointers: both teams had 8 last time. Today we had one more, 8-7. But we did shoot much better last time, 8 for 17 rather than 8 for 26.


- The big thing, though was the rebounding. We won the boards 35-28 in the Dome and lost them 26-43 today. There’s your ball game. Lydon had 10 in that game, 4 today. Gbinije had 8, 4 today, The others were about the same. Beasley had 2 then, 6 today. Bacon had 4 then, 8 today. Mann had 3 then, 8 today. They are all guards. That’s what happened: the guards hit the boards and their rebounding, (and aggressive defense), turned the game in their favor.


- It wasn’t the turnovers, as frustrating as they were. we had 20 then to 15. Today we actually had fewer turnovers, 16-19.


- Ah, yes, Trevor Cooney . He’s a fifth year senior shooting guard. His team is trying to nail down an NCAA bid. In his last four games he has hit 9 out of 44 (20.5%) field goal attempts, 4 for 14 (28.6%) inside the arc and 5 for 30, (16.7%) outside it. You can list his other fine qualities but you can’t spin the numbers.


- DaJuan Coleman: 14 minutes, 0 for from the field, 1 rebound, no blocks or steals. He must have set the record for rebounds that came right to him that he didn’t get.


- Frank Howard, the point guard of the future: 8 minutes 0 points, 0 assists, 2 turnovers.


- Mal Richardson’s ill-timed turnover on that late drive, (with 59 seconds left), didn’t bother me as much as Tyler Roberson vainly trying to block a shot that was already past him while allowing Malik Beasley to run into his vacated spot for a follow-up dunk to make it 70-75 with 35 seconds left. Richardson’s drive was no different from several other drives he and Gbinije scored on. It was great defensive play by Bojanovsky to tip the ball away.


- We’re just fans. When people who have been college head coaches say something, I listen. A comment Mike Neer, the long- time coach at Rochester made a couple of weeks ago rings in my head: “In the high post, you have 360 degrees of options”, still rings in my ear. Then there’s Jim Satalin, the long-time coach at St. Bonaventure, who said repeatedly in this game, when our offense was lagging, that we are imitating the offense from too far out- 25 feet. We don’t switch defenses. We don’t press or trap from the zone unless desperate. We don’t pass the ball up the floor, (we dribble it). We don’t shoot two point jumpers. We don’t use the high post, (even though Tyler Lydon was born for it). We don’t have a low post scorer. We don’t use the back door. We don’t’ dish when we drive to the basket. We are left with two things: the three pointer and the 20 foot drive. It’s just not enough.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Frank is a much better player with G in the game and not Cooney. His two turnovers were bad, but I still think he should have gotten more run. Maybe G wouldn't have fouled out...

DaJuan was really really bad today. I'd much rather he get blocked going strong right away than watching another failed pump fake and getting that stuffed. Good lord he was terrible to start the game.

 

[AccuRater]

- The late comeback was a valiant effort. When the NCAA committee meets, they will look at good wins and bad losses. They will not then say “Let’s take a look at the valiant efforts.” If Pittsburgh is our first round opponent in the ACC tournament, get ready for the NIT. 19-13 with 5 losses in 6 games is surely the bottom of the bubble.


- For fun, let’s take a look at the first game and compare it to this one. Keep in mind this not just measuring how much worse we played this time but also how much better they played. In that game we shot 70% from two point range: they shot 49%. In this game both teams shot 60%. We did a very poor job of keeping them out of the paint. It’s frustrating watching other teams exploit us from the high post while we never go there at all.


- It wasn’t three pointers: both teams had 8 last time. Today we had one more, 8-7. But we did shoot much better last time, 8 for 17 rather than 8 for 26.


- The big thing, though was the rebounding. We won the boards 35-28 in the Dome and lost them 26-43 today. There’s your ball game. Lydon had 10 in that game, 4 today. Gbinije had 8, 4 today, The others were about the same. Beasley had 2 then, 6 today. Bacon had 4 then, 8 today. Mann had 3 then, 8 today. They are all guards. That’s what happened: the guards hit the boards and their rebounding, (and aggressive defense), turned the game in their favor.


- It wasn’t the turnovers, as frustrating as they were. we had 20 then to 15. Today we actually had fewer turnovers, 16-19.


- Ah, yes, Trevor Cooney . He’s a fifth year senior shooting guard. His team is trying to nail down an NCAA bid. In his last four games he has hit 9 out of 44 (20.5%) field goal attempts, 4 for 14 (28.6%) inside the arc and 5 for 30, (16.7%) outside it. You can list his other fine qualities but you can’t spin the numbers.


- DaJuan Coleman: 14 minutes, 0 for from the field, 1 rebound, no blocks or steals. He must have set the record for rebounds that came right to him that he didn’t get.


- Frank Howard, the point guard of the future: 8 minutes 0 points, 0 assists, 2 turnovers.


- Mal Richardson’s ill-timed turnover on that late drive, (with 59 seconds left), didn’t bother me as much as Tyler Roberson vainly trying to block a shot that was already past him while allowing Malik Beasley to run into his vacated spot for a follow-up dunk to make it 70-75 with 35 seconds left. Richardson’s drive was no different from several other drives he and Gbinije scored on. It was great defensive play by Bojanovsky to tip the ball away.


- We’re just fans. When people who have been college head coaches say something, I listen. A comment Mike Neer, the long- time coach at Rochester made a couple of weeks ago rings in my head: “In the high post, you have 360 degrees of options”, still rings in my ear. Then there’s Jim Satalin, the long-time coach at St. Bonaventure, who said repeatedly in this game, when our offense was lagging, that we are imitating the offense from too far out- 25 feet. We don’t switch defenses. We don’t press or trap from the zone unless desperate. We don’t pass the ball up the floor, (we dribble it). We don’t shoot two point jumpers. We don’t use the high post, (even though Tyler Lydon was born for it). We don’t have a low post scorer. We don’t use the back door. We don’t’ dish when we drive to the basket. We are left with two things: the three pointer and the 20 foot drive. It’s just not enough.

I "like" SWC's Downside because it is an accurate summary of our shortcomings.

I hate SWC's Downside because it is an accurate summary of our shortcomings.

 

[Ghost]

- The late comeback was a valiant effort. When the NCAA committee meets, they will look at good wins and bad losses. They will not then say “Let’s take a look at the valiant efforts.” If Pittsburgh is our first round opponent in the ACC tournament, get ready for the NIT. 19-13 with 5 losses in 6 games is surely the bottom of the bubble.


- For fun, let’s take a look at the first game and compare it to this one. Keep in mind this not just measuring how much worse we played this time but also how much better they played. In that game we shot 70% from two point range: they shot 49%. In this game both teams shot 60%. We did a very poor job of keeping them out of the paint. It’s frustrating watching other teams exploit us from the high post while we never go there at all.


- It wasn’t three pointers: both teams had 8 last time. Today we had one more, 8-7. But we did shoot much better last time, 8 for 17 rather than 8 for 26.


- The big thing, though was the rebounding. We won the boards 35-28 in the Dome and lost them 26-43 today. There’s your ball game. Lydon had 10 in that game, 4 today. Gbinije had 8, 4 today, The others were about the same. Beasley had 2 then, 6 today. Bacon had 4 then, 8 today. Mann had 3 then, 8 today. They are all guards. That’s what happened: the guards hit the boards and their rebounding, (and aggressive defense), turned the game in their favor.


- It wasn’t the turnovers, as frustrating as they were. we had 20 then to 15. Today we actually had fewer turnovers, 16-19.


- Ah, yes, Trevor Cooney . He’s a fifth year senior shooting guard. His team is trying to nail down an NCAA bid. In his last four games he has hit 9 out of 44 (20.5%) field goal attempts, 4 for 14 (28.6%) inside the arc and 5 for 30, (16.7%) outside it. You can list his other fine qualities but you can’t spin the numbers.


- DaJuan Coleman: 14 minutes, 0 for from the field, 1 rebound, no blocks or steals. He must have set the record for rebounds that came right to him that he didn’t get.


- Frank Howard, the point guard of the future: 8 minutes 0 points, 0 assists, 2 turnovers.


- Mal Richardson’s ill-timed turnover on that late drive, (with 59 seconds left), didn’t bother me as much as Tyler Roberson vainly trying to block a shot that was already past him while allowing Malik Beasley to run into his vacated spot for a follow-up dunk to make it 70-75 with 35 seconds left. Richardson’s drive was no different from several other drives he and Gbinije scored on. It was great defensive play by Bojanovsky to tip the ball away.


- We’re just fans. When people who have been college head coaches say something, I listen. A comment Mike Neer, the long- time coach at Rochester made a couple of weeks ago rings in my head: “In the high post, you have 360 degrees of options”, still rings in my ear. Then there’s Jim Satalin, the long-time coach at St. Bonaventure, who said repeatedly in this game, when our offense was lagging, that we are imitating the offense from too far out- 25 feet. We don’t switch defenses. We don’t press or trap from the zone unless desperate. We don’t pass the ball up the floor, (we dribble it). We don’t shoot two point jumpers. We don’t use the high post, (even though Tyler Lydon was born for it). We don’t have a low post scorer. We don’t use the back door. We don’t’ dish when we drive to the basket. We are left with two things: the three pointer and the 20 foot drive. It’s just not enough.

Coleman was very poor on the boards today. I'm not sure if it was simply a case of their athleticism overwhelming him, but there seemed to more instances than usual today where the positioning was good, but it seemed like he just forgot to jump. Bacon, whomever, would jump over him and grab it clean.

Howard played fairly uninspired ball today. The movement on offense while he was in was lacking at times, but if he wants more minutes, he has to take upon himself to create more. Not a great day AT ALL. I thought he had an assist to Lydon, but maybe because Lydon took a dribble it takes the assist away? Anyway, he needs to cut down on those careless passes. A lot. Blah. He and Mal both do too much of that nonsense.

Nobody had a great passing day though - especially in the first half. We just seemed to be winging it around aimlessly.

Lydon played well though!

Frank is a much better player with G in the game and not Cooney. His two turnovers were bad, but I still think he should have gotten more run. Maybe G wouldn't have fouled out...

I think so as well. You saw it on the second turnover, I think G understands the PG position, so he's a bit more adept at helping a Frosh out. When Frank lost his dribble, Cooney provided the outlet going toward half court, by going on an angle that opened up the steal for the D. Go TO THE BALL. Not drift backwards and away from it. You just make the pass far too difficult when you do that.

You have to recognize the defense is trying to jump the pass when the dribbler picks up the ball and is trapped like that. You need to provide a better angle, or, simply go get the ball in situations like those.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Coleman was very poor on the boards today. I'm not sure if it was simply a case of their athleticism overwhelming him, but there seemed to more instances than usual today where the positioning was good, but it seemed like he just forgot to jump. Bacon, whomever, would jump over him and grab it clean.

Howard played fairly uninspired ball today. The movement on offense while he was in was non-existent, but if he wants more minutes, he has to take upon himself to create more. Not a great day at all. I thought he had an assist to Lydon, but maybe because Lydon took a dribble it takes the assist away? Anyway, he needs to cut down on those careless passes. He and Mal both do too much of that nonsense.

Nobody had a great passing day though - especially in the first half. We just seemed to be winging it around aimlessly.

Lydon played well though!



I think so as well. You saw it on the second turnover, I think G understands the PG position, so he's a bit more adept at helping a Frosh out. When Frank lost his dribble, Cooney provided the outlet going toward half court, by going on an angle that opened up the steal for the D. Go TO THE BALL. Not drift backwards and away from it. You just make the pass far too difficult when you do that.

You have to recognize the defense is trying to jump the pass when the dribbler picks up the ball and is trapped like that. You need to provide a better angle, or, simply go get the ball in situations like those.

Exactly right.

 

[SWC75]

I "like" SWC's Downside because it is an accurate summary of our shortcomings.

I hate SWC's Downside because it is an accurate summary of our shortcomings.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Coleman was very poor on the boards today. I'm not sure if it was simply a case of their athleticism overwhelming him, but there seemed to more instances than usual today where the positioning was good, but it seemed like he just forgot to jump. Bacon, whomever, would jump over him and grab it clean.

Howard played fairly uninspired ball today. The movement on offense while he was in was lacking at times, but if he wants more minutes, he has to take upon himself to create more. Not a great day AT ALL. I thought he had an assist to Lydon, but maybe because Lydon took a dribble it takes the assist away? Anyway, he needs to cut down on those careless passes. A lot. Blah. He and Mal both do too much of that nonsense.

Nobody had a great passing day though - especially in the first half. We just seemed to be winging it around aimlessly.

Lydon played well though!



I think so as well. You saw it on the second turnover, I think G understands the PG position, so he's a bit more adept at helping a Frosh out. When Frank lost his dribble, Cooney provided the outlet going toward half court, by going on an angle that opened up the steal for the D. Go TO THE BALL. Not drift backwards and away from it. You just make the pass far too difficult when you do that.

You have to recognize the defense is trying to jump the pass when the dribbler picks up the ball and is trapped like that. You need to provide a better angle, or, simply go get the ball in situations like those.

Do you think the staff is coaching them up on this stuff or they just expect them to realize this stuff? Honest question. I mean some of the crap we were seeing 1H is sort of unfathomable to see at this stage of the season with guys who play this many minutes. It was like an exhibition game out there. Couldn't believe me eyes.

 

[Ghost]

Do you think the staff is coaching them up on this stuff or they just expect them to realize this stuff? Honest question. I mean some of the crap we were seeing 1H is sort of unfathomable to see at this stage of the season with guys who play this many minutes. It was like an exhibition game out there. Couldn't believe me eyes.

Who knows. I can't fathom it's coaching at this level.

Some of those things are probably no more than isolated mistakes. That keep happening. DC is typically good about providing an outlet if someone picks up their dribble.

You've heard JB harp on Howard's propensity for throwing one-handed (lazy) passes, but we still see it some, although he has cut down on it slightly. I think early in the season playing him with Joseph, whenever he did get some limited minutes, was mindbogglingly stupid. I think it probably hurt Joseph and Howard's development.

The other stuff is all symptomatic of not having guards on the roster. We have some combos, and a "shooter," but nobody that came up as a lead guard, and nobody with tremendous skills for a shooting guard. Although G could handle that position quite well - and would probably thrive. Still, he's someone that is probably learning to be a guard in general still, and that's all the more difficult because he's having to play PG.

Even a combo PG/SG would be helpful (think Battle next year). Mali is a combo /G, but can play shooting guard, and that's probably his more natural position. G is the same (as previously mentioned). And TC is a shooter. I'm not sure any of them have been tasked much with running an offense, creating for others, handling the ball as a primary option - so some of the things we take granted are more difficult. Mali is the only one that seems to have a good feel for creating off the bounce - and he may decapitate someone before the season is over. G is okay, but it's a tough transition from SF to PG. Cooney can dribble, but, he's not going anywhere or creating for anyone.

Joseph or Howard REALLY needed to work out this year for us.

It was a funny game though - so many downsides:

Cooney falling/stumbling about 12 times in a row in the second half while trying to dribble
Roberson shooting a ball about 4 feet to the right of the rim, and 8 feet long on a 10 footer - how that backboard didn't break is beyond me.
Mali dribbling the length of the court with a minute to go with everyone but him knowing how the play would end before it happened
Cooney going into "heat check" mode again because he made one shot

All we would have needed was Scoop to run onto the court and throw a lob pass that goes directly into the hoop from three point range and we would have had it all.

 

[SoBeCuse]

Good post Ghost. Pretty much my view as well. I suppose it's sort of an accomplishment to be in the position we are in with a 50/50 shot at a Tourney appearance based on the limitations of the roster, players playing out of position, etc. I personally see Battle as a huge upgrade right away when he arrives from a ballhandling perspective. Not a natural PG but he looks great when he is used in that role from what I have seen. Good handle, fast, strong, an attacker, and someone who can score pretty much from everywhere.

 

[Jack Hall]

Good post Ghost. Pretty much my view as well. I suppose it's sort of an accomplishment to be in the position we are in with a 50/50 shot at a Tourney appearance based on the limitations of the roster, players playing out of position, etc. I personally see Battle as a huge upgrade right away when he arrives from a ballhandling perspective. Not a natural PG but he looks great when he is used in that role from what I have seen. Good handle, fast, strong, an attacker, and someone who can score pretty much from everywhere.

I certainly dont like admitting this but i am worried about this team tapping out soon. Read SWCs last two or three summaries on the Jb shows. I think in like 2 of the last 3 JB has talked about next years team and how guys wont be playing out of position. When fans come on here and speculate about next years teams they get criticized for looking ahead. Isnt it a little odd that JB is already looking ahead? Also JB has said something along the lines recently that the guys on this team havent been that vocal and havent shown much emotion. Thats one thing coming from a fan but very different when its coming from a coach. TRob certainly hasnt shown me much of a fire in recent games, altho that just my little ole 2 cts. Neither has DC, i have always tried to defend him but he just watched FSU rebound the ball yesterday. Many of the times he was so busy just watching he didnt even move for the ball, i assume he was waiting for a teammate to go for it.

It will be fairly interesting to see what happens if this team faces adversity early on in the pit game. Do they tap out or do they get a fire lit under their arse. I fully assume w TC and G as fifth year seniors they will not let this team go down without a fight. But still it will be interesting to see how this team responds to adversity in pit game, AND how early they respond or do they wait til its too late. So cliche but i think we ll find out on wed how badly this team wants the season to continue in a meaningful way. Go CUSE

 

[Jack Hall]

I will also say there must be a method to JBs madness. I remember in 2013 when that team hit a regular season losing skid, soon after he started talking about how the golf season was coming soon. I thought to myself, What is he really mailing it in? Then they completely dismantled IU and MU and went to FF...

 

[Madbiker]

In the 1st half the turnovers (11) killed us. In the 2nd half we couldn't get a rebound and giving up 2nd, 3rd, 4th, shots. So frustrating.