The Downside

[SWC75]

- We still aren’t a really good offensive team. Trevor Cooney has an off game and we score 57 points. We’ve got two real scorers in Fair and Cooney. Ennis and Grant can score some but not enough to carry the team Christmas and Keita were 1 for 5 and scored 2 points. Gbinije did manage a trey in 10 minutes. We aren’t bad on offense and it helps to give up 50 or less points but our firepower isn’t exactly scary.


- CJ Fair continues to be shaky with the ball. He had 4 turnovers, two in the first two minutes on a pass to nobody in particular and a dribble off the foot. He now has 48 turnovers in 16 games after having 63 in 40 games last year. It’s more than just extra defensive attention: he got plenty of that last year. And it’s not always because he was trying to show the NBA some moves we haven’t seen before. What is it? Frankly, I don’t know. CJ’s always been the smooth guy who doesn’t make mistakes. He’s still a very productive player but his game is more chunky than smooth.


- Tyler Ennis had an uncharacteristic 4 turnovers, all in the first half. He seemed, for the first time all season to be going for the flashy play, including a behind the back drive and a backwards pass to the other team. Maybe he was trying to impress Dick Vitale. He needs to concentrate on impressing Jim Boeheim.


- The uniforms looked like North Carolina. The players sure didn’t. Jimmy Salatin kept saying that the Tar Heels had a run in them the end. No they didn’t. They scored on their last three possessions when it no longer mattered and we had stopped defending them. Before that they had a stretch of 9 possessions that produced two made baskets, one free throw and three turnovers. Once they fell behind, they had no semblance of an offense. The game just seemed to go out of focus for them.

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I agree about Ennis, didn't seem as focused this game ... hope that is just a passing event because he has been amazing.

 

[Madbiker]

Part of the reason for CJ's increase in TO's is he's handling the ball a lot more than last year and often much farther from the basket. In the past he rarely had to bounce the ball more than once before taking a shot. Now he's handling it and having to put it on the floor for several dribbles and that's where he can get into trouble.

 

[RF2044]

We "still aren't a really good offensive team," and yet we ran them off of the floor.

Didn't score over the last 6 minutes [can that possibly be true?] and yet controlled the game.

Wow--we're pretty damn good. Defense and rebounding were the keys.

 

[syrabillslican]

KenPom has our offensive efficiency at #4 in the nation. I'd say that's good enough for a title.

We're a different team if Cooney is hitting shots vs clanking though.

 

[Jack Hall]

- We still aren’t a really good offensive team. Trevor Cooney has an off game and we score 57 points. We’ve got two real scorers in Fair and Cooney. Ennis and Grant can score some but not enough to carry the team Christmas and Keita were 1 for 5 and scored 2 points. Gbinije did manage a trey in 10 minutes. We aren’t bad on offense and it helps to give up 50 or less points but our firepower isn’t exactly scary.


- CJ Fair continues to be shaky with the ball. He had 4 turnovers, two in the first two minutes on a pass to nobody in particular and a dribble off the foot. He now has 48 turnovers in 16 games after having 63 in 40 games last year. It’s more than just extra defensive attention: he got plenty of that last year. And it’s not always because he was trying to show the NBA some moves we haven’t seen before. What is it? Frankly, I don’t know. CJ’s always been the smooth guy who doesn’t make mistakes. He’s still a very productive player but his game is more chunky than smooth.


- Tyler Ennis had an uncharacteristic 4 turnovers, all in the first half. He seemed, for the first time all season to be going for the flashy play, including a behind the back drive and a backwards pass to the other team. Maybe he was trying to impress Dick Vitale. He needs to concentrate on impressing Jim Boeheim.


- The uniforms looked like North Carolina. The players sure didn’t. Jimmy Salatin kept saying that the Tar Heels had a run in them the end. No they didn’t. They scored on their last three possessions when it no longer mattered and we had stopped defending them. Before that they had a stretch of 9 possessions that produced two made baskets, one free throw and three turnovers. Once they fell behind, they had no semblance of an offense. The game just seemed to go out of focus for them.

to be honest this was the first game when i started to think Ennis might want to be one and done. i say this because it seemed to me every time paige (who is obviously considered a pro prosect) made a big play, it seemed to me Tyler tried to match it. hope im wrong cause I dont nec like to see ball players doing that at any level.

 

[tbonezone]

hard for me to pull many downsides from beating royboy's tar heels in front of 30k. but here goes.
turnovers. we played very sloppy with the rock the first half.
bench. thought we could have squeezed some more bench minutes out there with the big lead
cooney. don't go mental. change contacts whatever but we need an outside threat.

 

[djcon57]

KenPom has our offensive efficiency at #4 in the nation. I'd say that's good enough for a title.

We're a different team if Cooney is hitting shots vs clanking though.

It feels very similar to 2003 where if GMac was hitting, we weren't losing vs anyone. Feel that way w/ Trevor. If he's hitting, we win.

 

[two3zone]

It feels very similar to 2003 where if GMac was hitting, we weren't losing vs anyone. Feel that way w/ Trevor. If he's hitting, we win.

Agreed, just don't feel we can lose if he hits 4 threes or more. For some reason when he hits a three it just starts our whole offense a way a big dunk or oop does.

 

[jordoo]

We a very good offensive team that struggled a bit today and is also starting to get it on defense.

 

[RF2044]

to be honest this was the first game when i started to think Ennis might want to be one and done. i say this because it seemed to me every time paige (who is obviously considered a pro prosect) made a big play, it seemed to me Tyler tried to match it. hope im wrong cause I dont nec like to see ball players doing that at any level.

I don't mean this as a dig on you, JH, but I think that this forum in general does an incredibly poor job of evaluating our players' developmental curves.

Ennis had a strong game, despite not being as outstanding as he has been every other game. Just because they aren't performing mistake free / highlight ball at all times doesn't mean that they are playing poorly. Id didn't see Ennis trying to match anything--I saw a kid who imposed his tempo on the game. That we are shocked about him committing 4 turnovers in a blowout win is a testimony to how phenomenally he has played all season long. Tonight's game includued.

And in terms of Trevor, I think we look like national championship contenders whether he is hitting or not. If teams scheme to take him away, it just opens things up for everyone else.

Lots of balance, lots of complimentary team play, and a heaping of superlative lead guard play that most teams couldn't dream of = a winning formula.

 

[Jack Hall]

I don't mean this as a dig on you, JH, but I think that this forum in general does an incredibly poor job of evaluating our players' developmental curves.

Ennis had a strong game, despite not being as outstanding as he has been every other game. Just because they aren't performing mistake free / highlight ball at all times doesn't mean that they are playing poorly. Id didn't see Ennis trying to match anything--I saw a kid who imposed his tempo on the game. That we are shocked about him committing 4 turnovers in a blowout win is a testimony to how phenomenally he has played all season long. Tonight's game includued.

And in terms of Trevor, I think we look like national championship contenders whether he is hitting or not. If teams scheme to take him away, it just opens things up for everyone else.

Lots of balance, lots of complimentary team play, and a heaping of superlative lead guard play that most teams couldn't dream of = a winning formula.

Oh i think Tyler had a strong game. Just the fact that i am mentioning him as a one and done potential candidate reflects my respect for his game and what he means for this team. Still does not change my opinion that i thought he was measuring himself against paige today. As i said i could be wrong

 

[Jack Hall]

I don't mean this as a dig on you, JH, but I think that this forum in general does an incredibly poor job of evaluating our players' developmental curves.

Ennis had a strong game, despite not being as outstanding as he has been every other game. Just because they aren't performing mistake free / highlight ball at all times doesn't mean that they are playing poorly. Id didn't see Ennis trying to match anything--I saw a kid who imposed his tempo on the game. That we are shocked about him committing 4 turnovers in a blowout win is a testimony to how phenomenally he has played all season long. Tonight's game includued.

And in terms of Trevor, I think we look like national championship contenders whether he is hitting or not. If teams scheme to take him away, it just opens things up for everyone else.

Lots of balance, lots of complimentary team play, and a heaping of superlative lead guard play that most teams couldn't dream of = a winning formula.

And no one said they were shocked by TEs 4 tos. I wasnt shocked. The original poster simply said those 4 tos were uncharacteristic for TE, which they were when you look at his stats for every other game. What he has done this season so far goes down as beyond spectacular.

 

[Jack Hall]

I don't mean this as a dig on you, JH, but I think that this forum in general does an incredibly poor job of evaluating our players' developmental curves.

Ennis had a strong game, despite not being as outstanding as he has been every other game. Just because they aren't performing mistake free / highlight ball at all times doesn't mean that they are playing poorly. Id didn't see Ennis trying to match anything--I saw a kid who imposed his tempo on the game. That we are shocked about him committing 4 turnovers in a blowout win is a testimony to how phenomenally he has played all season long. Tonight's game includued.

And in terms of Trevor, I think we look like national championship contenders whether he is hitting or not. If teams scheme to take him away, it just opens things up for everyone else.

Lots of balance, lots of complimentary team play, and a heaping of superlative lead guard play that most teams couldn't dream of = a winning formula.

And the final thing from your post, imo the only player on this team i have noticed this forum do a poor job evaluating their developmental curve is TC. Despite the numbers he put up last season, it now seems to be assumed that TRevor will average 45-50 percent from three the entire season. Which is dangerous, when you consider the volume of his shooting, 45 percent is outstanding from a nba vet, let alone a third yr college kid. I think if we just expected him to shoot a more reasonable 33 percent we wouldnt be at all bothered when he scores ten pts, has a bunch if steals, and we win in a laugher.

 

[RF2044]

And the final thing from your post, imo the only player on this team i have noticed this forum do a poor job evaluating their developmental curve is TC. Despite the numbers he put up last season, it now seems to be assumed that TRevor will average 45-50 percent from three the entire season. Which is dangerous, when you consider the volume of his shooting, 45 percent is outstanding from a nba vet, let alone a third yr college kid. I think if we just expected him to shoot a more reasonable 33 percent we wouldnt be at all bothered when he scores ten pts, has a bunch if steals, and we win in a laugher.

No way--the forum in general has done a tremendously poor job evaluating player potential for years. Overuse of using past results to predict future performance, downplaying potential as a function of players not producing as frosh, etc.

 

[Jack Hall]

No way--the forum in general has done a tremendously poor job evaluating player potential for years. Overuse of using past results to predict future performance, downplaying potential as a function of players not producing as frosh, etc.

May be, you have been here longer than me, i just havent noticed it

 

[SoBristol]

Part of the reason for CJ's increase in TO's is he's handling the ball a lot more than last year and often much farther from the basket. In the past he rarely had to bounce the ball more than once before taking a shot. Now he's handling it and having to put it on the floor for several dribbles and that's where he can get into trouble.

This is most of the reason. Last year, MCW had BT to help handle, and Southerland played a lot on the perimeter, looking for 3 point shots.
This year, our SG runs the perimeter, does very little ball-handling and rarely makes a drive move. Grant's role is akin to CJ's last year. CJ handles the ball a lot more of the time (compared to last season), he is plainly the #1 option.
Can't make the comparisons to last season unless you note how the roles have changed.

 

[LennX6]

This is most of the reason. Last year, MCW had BT to help handle, and Southerland played a lot on the perimeter, looking for 3 point shots.
This year, our SG runs the perimeter, does very little ball-handling and rarely makes a drive move. Grant's role is akin to CJ's last year. CJ handles the ball a lot more of the time (compared to last season), he is plainly the #1 option.
Can't make the comparisons to last season unless you note how the roles have changed.

The increase in turnovers is irrelevant. CJ's games this year is WAY different than the previous 3 . The prior 3 years , the ball "ended up" in CJ's hands, he had limited if any iso's. Now he is a focus of our offense andf the increased turnovers are unfortunately , a nature of the beast. Even CJ's 3 point attempts are different this year than last. Guaranteed he was much wider open last year than this year.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I don't mean this as a dig on you, JH, but I think that this forum in general does an incredibly poor job of evaluating our players' developmental curves.

Ennis had a strong game, despite not being as outstanding as he has been every other game. Just because they aren't performing mistake free / highlight ball at all times doesn't mean that they are playing poorly. Id didn't see Ennis trying to match anything--I saw a kid who imposed his tempo on the game. That we are shocked about him committing 4 turnovers in a blowout win is a testimony to how phenomenally he has played all season long. Tonight's game includued.

And in terms of Trevor, I think we look like national championship contenders whether he is hitting or not. If teams scheme to take him away, it just opens things up for everyone else.

Lots of balance, lots of complimentary team play, and a heaping of superlative lead guard play that most teams couldn't dream of = a winning formula.

THIS!!