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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 4332210, member: 289"] When I was going to SU in the early 70's I was in a class with SU DB Jim Kiles and we got to talking about speed. I wonder about Floyd Little's speed and Jim told me that Floyd held the world record for the 40 yards dash with a 4.1 reading. Of course that would likely have been hand timed. Also, I recall Dick Vermiel saying during a broadcast that in his entire career as a coach he never timed anybody in less than 4.5. I've read that Mantle was 3.1 to first base many time. I've heard a quote for Vada Pinson as 3.3. I've never heard that he was 3.1. Bill James, in his New Historical Baseball Abstract, (2000), says that Tommy, (not Willie) Davis was 3.4 before he broke his ankle. Bill Jenkinson, in his book 'Baseball's Ultimate Power' says that grading a player's speed depends on whether you have him swing the bat, which will slow him down a bit. Mantle's 3.1 included a swing. Jenkinson found a 1957 article saying a minor leaguer named Joe Caffie was timed in 3.0. it didn't say if that included a swing. George Case of the Indians ran 100 yards across a baseball outfield in 10 flat in 1946. Track people questioned that and so Indians owner Bill Veeck arranged a match race with 32 year old Jesse Owens, both in baseball uniforms and shoes. Jesse won, 9.9 to 10.0, so Case, who led the lead in steals six times and was probably the game's best base stealer between Ty Cobb and Maury Wills, (or Luis Aparicio), was fast. Pitcher Pedro Ramos once challenge the Phillies' Richie Ashburn to an 80 yard dash and beat him by 5 yards. Jenkinson lists a top ten but doesn't provide any stats: Mantle, Caffie, Willie Davis, Sam Jethroe, Vada Pinson, Deion Sanders, Case, Willie Wilson, Ramos and Ichiro Suzuki. he also has ten 'honorable mentions': Sliding Bill Hamilton, (the one from the 1890's), Someone named Evar Swanson who played from 1929-1934Ashburn, Miguel Dilone, Rickey Henderson, Vince Coleman, Bo Jackson, Kenny Lofton, Carl Crawford and Jacoby Ellsbury. From the Negro Leagues he adds Cool Papa Bell and Bernardo Baro. Trying to transfer times from different distances can be misleading. the early part of 100 meters tends to be dominated by the shorter, more powerfully built runners who can explode out of the block faster. The second part of the race is dominated by the guys with the longest legs who eat up the most ground with each stride. The guy ahead after 30 years might not be the guy ahead at 40 yards. [/QUOTE]

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