The Jim Boeheim Show - before Duke

[Bayside44]

My point was Lydon was gone when Hop left. JB and Lydon weren't close. They had respect for each other but Lydon wasn't close with JB. Lydon wasn't staying this year when Hop left. He declared right after the Ole Miss game but he was going thru the process and could have come back. Once Hop left he signed with an agent and JB didn't even know.

I get that, just find the logic a little goofy.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The kid is hurt. Better to get hurt after you get drafted than before.

 

[SWC75]

Hard to say. It depends on what a guy wants. Certainly the money is nice. I wonder, if you told guys they'd get paid but not play in the league, how many would wait. Some guys may like college, but the draw of playing in the NBA is strong enough to lure them away. If they knew they would be in the g league would the draw be as strong? Is the money good enough that guys wouldn't care? That would be an interesting survey 5 years in.

I said to Bud P. several times that his paper should do an article on SU players who left early and how they now viewed their decision. Bud said that we both know what they would have said. I if they did one, never saw it

 

[SWC75]

Autry is doing a good job.
I don't want GMac as the next HC but he has done enough now I am off his back. He is fine as an assistant. Just not the next SU HC.
Griff got us Bazely he is good.

We have a fine staff now. JB needs to stop talking without a filter publicly when it comes to his players.

the thought occurs that JB is actually half century older than the players he coaches, but his staff is not.

 

[Alsacs]

the thought occurs that JB is actually half century older than the players he coaches, but his staff is not.

Right which makes statements by people suggesting it may be time for a new HC aren't out of line.

The guy talks publicly about his players or ex-players way too liberally. Just say nothing if its not nice.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Lydon was 100% gone when Hop left.
If Hop has stayed I am sure he wouldn’t have signed with an agent as early as he did.
He doesn’t regret anything.
He got a guaranteed contract and just needs to get healthy. Lydon and JB weren’t close.

I highly doubt you know if he regrets the decision or not. Yes, he got a guaranteed contract, but so what. I'm pretty sure Lydon would have gotten a guaranteed contract after this year with SU, if he had stayed. What he is doing now would have been available a year from now, but he can't go back.

So really it's just about the quality of the year he is having right now. I could see wanting to play star at SU in front of huge crowds, hanging with tons of people your own age, as a BMOC, and as someone who is going to soon be rich. I could see it as being a lot more appealing than what he is doing now. He doesn't have to be close to JB, stars in JB's system have it made.

It's possible Lydon made a rash decision to leave based on his loyalty/relationship to Hop. It also seems to me this is a decision Lydon has probably thought back upon now that he is in the dregs of the G league, money or not.

 

[sufandu]

Given that Lydon was on the tail-end of the Top 100 when he came to Syracuse (and I believe well outside of that when we first offered him), he probably didn't have serious aspirations of making it to the NBA, initially.

(yes - I'm sure almost ALL of the kids playing D1 dream of it, and think that *they* might be one of the 1 percent who get that chance, but you have to think most of them also know that, realistically - it ain't happening.)

He's always seemed like the kind of guy who would be completely happy just having a cabin in the woods or a farmhouse, and spending his days fishing and hunting. And with the $ he'll make over these next few years, he can do just exactly that, regardless of how the rest of his NBA career does or does not go.

Even if his NBA career is a "bust" (I'd argue that even HAVING an NBA career means you were NOT a bust) then:
A - he'll have already made more $ in 3 years, than 90%+ of all Syracuse grads make in THEIR ENTIRE LIFETIMES.
B - he can make good $ playing overseas
C - he can always go back and finish his degree and then get a 'real' job.

You may be right. You may be wrong. The point of my post was that we can't get in anybody's head and know for sure and not everyone will think the same.

 

[manleyzoo]

Given that Lydon was on the tail-end of the Top 100 when he came to Syracuse (and I believe well outside of that when we first offered him), he probably didn't have serious aspirations of making it to the NBA, initially.

(yes - I'm sure almost ALL of the kids playing D1 dream of it, and think that *they* might be one of the 1 percent who get that chance, but you have to think most of them also know that, realistically - it ain't happening.)

He's always seemed like the kind of guy who would be completely happy just having a cabin in the woods or a farmhouse, and spending his days fishing and hunting. And with the $ he'll make over these next few years, he can do just exactly that, regardless of how the rest of his NBA career does or does not go.

Even if his NBA career is a "bust" (I'd argue that even HAVING an NBA career means you were NOT a bust) then:
A - he'll have already made more $ in 3 years, than 90%+ of all Syracuse grads make in THEIR ENTIRE LIFETIMES.
B - he can make good $ playing overseas
C - he can always go back and finish his degree and then get a 'real' job.

A: Making money in the very short term doesn't stand up to earning it over time. For example, lottery winners are more apt to declare bankruptcy within 3 to 5 years than the average American. Also 60 percent of NBA players are broke after 5 years out of the league. The truth is a lot of players don’t deal well with stopping playing after doing it their whole lives. Add in bad investments, poor financial management, or over-spending and it doesn’t matter how much money you once made for three years when you were young, it's gonna be gone. And when he stops playing, without a degree his career choices for the rest of his life are sorely limited. Right now it looks like JB was right. Lydon is a G league player and with his ACL he's got to start all over again, but this time with more guys to beat out and not having played for maybe a year.
B: Playing overseas isn't the easy route it once was. It's no sure thing fall back position. Only a few stick it out for more than a few years. You're competing with local players, ex-NBA guys, ex-college guys and guys from other countries.
C: A very small percentage of ex-players finish their degree (~10%) and that's mostly the big name guys who've been in the league for years and made gazillions and have the wherewithal to see ahead to their next career.

Maybe Lydon will be all happy living in a cabin in the woods. I hope so. But when Boeheim talks about staying in school for another year, he's talking about improving your chances of sticking for more than the first contract.

 

[skurey]

Why would playing against college players and coaches part time improve your game more than making it your profession?

 

[sufandu]

Why would playing against college players and coaches part time improve your game more than making it your profession?

It may depend. If your on the end of an NBA bench you're not working on your game much during the season, at least not within a team concept. With their schedule, they don't practice that much. You can probably work on your individual skills more. In the g league you may have more opportunity.

 

[tbonezone]

hey lydon wasn't lottery. he went 24th. he was immediately traded and went to G league. if you don't think you can improve on that then by all means jump. this year he'd likely be back at the natural pf instead of center .i think he could have played himself into top 10. but it's his choice and i still wish him well.

 

[SWC75]

PART TWO

The Syracuse women hit a school record 20 three pointers to beat UNC 86-80. JB’s comments: “They are having a great year. Coach Q has done a great job. That point guard is as tough as nails.” They’ve had trouble cracking the rankings. “When you are down to 25th or 26th, it’s hard to get up. But when you are in there, they can’t get you out of it. Look at Oklahoma. They’ve lost 6 in a row and they are still ranked.“ (Actually they dropped out of the last poll.)

Cincinnati has been playing its home games at the University of Northern Kentucky while their arena is being renovated. The only regular game they are playing in the state of Ohio this year is against Xavier.

Mike from Rome asked if Joe Gerard is comparable to Gerry McNamara. JB explained he couldn’t answer that question under NCAA rules.

Somebody called in asking what a redshirt freshman was. Jim cited Matt Moyer as an example: a guy who sits out a year but retains his remaining eligibility, which must be used within 5 years. He said that most freshmen football players are redshirted. In Matt’s case it was due to injury. He said that Elijah Hughes will be a redshirt sophomore.

Who sets up the SU schedule? “We have a guy, Kip Wellman who makes the phone calls. We have 18 conference games. A tournament gives us some games – we got Maryland Buffalo and Kansas out of the one this year, all top 50 teams. Then we have a Big Ten game. You can have 13 non-conference games.“ Kip may make the phone calls but I doubt he makes the deals. And we got Texas Southern, Oakland, Toledo and Kansas from the Hoophall Miami Invitational, which was not really a tournament and did not include Buffalo.

Around the ACC: Virginia beat Georgia Tech 65-54. “They will stop you.” Virginia Tech “is on the upswing.” Clemson “lost their best player and their point guard – but they’re still a good team”. Wake Forest “has pretty good players but haven’t been able to win”.

Allonzo Trier of Arizona has been declared ineligible by the NCAA after testing positive for a banned substance. What makes it weird is that he ingested the substance in 2016: "The amount detected was miniscule by scientific standards and appears to be a remnant of a substance, which the NCAA agreed, Allonzo had unknowingly ingested in 2016," the school said.
Zona star Trier ineligible after positive PED test
JB found that kinda strange.

Michael Porter of Missouri has been cleared to play, despite a back problem. JB didn’t understand why he was trying to come back at this point in the season. “He’s going to be a top 5 lottery pick if healthy.”

Jay Wright’s wife is trying to get him to tone down his flashy dressing for games, calling him the “Connie Mack of college basketball”.
Villanova's GQ Jay may tone down his suit game | Zagsblog
JB knew what she was referring to. Do you?

Rich from Clay said “It’s been an enjoyable ride” He wondered what rules changes Jim might be in favor of. “I’d like to see a 24 second clock but it won’t happen. They could move the three point line back a bit or widen the lane but there’s not a lot of talk about that. . I don’t see changes coming. People always say we don’t want to become the NBA but there’s stronger voices saying to make the game ‘unified’. The NBA and the international game are becoming more alike and they want the college game to follow suit. Most college coaches don’t like the 24 second clock – it would have hurt us this year, although we would have adjusted to it. It would hurt bad teams more than good teams. The longer you hold it, the harder it is to get a good shot.”

The 76’ers GM Brian Colangelo admitted to having a team tank in the past and there’s suspicion that his current team is doing it again:
Are Sixers trying to lose? Bryan Colangelo admitted to tanking in last GM stint
JB wasn’t impressed: “Admitting you team is tanking is stupid. You are taught to do everything to win the game.” It led to a discussion of Sixers history and how Dr. J killed SU when he played for Massachusetts back in the day, (36 points, 32 rebounds 2/22/71: we lost 71-86. UMASS has been unkind to us over the years.)

How much of the Olympics has JB been watching? Surprisingly, a lot, (he has trouble getting to sleep). “I’ll watch just about anything, even curling. They have a kind of intensity.” Gomez invited him to get together with the Utica Curling Club- one of the oldest in the US. He has “an open invitation”. Jim: “I’m not much on ice but it looks like fun.” He watched the women’s hockey game. “One of the better games in any sport. I usually like favorites but always root for our country. The women showed an unbelievable amount of heart and the game was performed at a very, very high level by both sides. It’s what sports is all about. It was good to see the girls win after 4 straight Gold medal losses.” Do the international players on the SU team follow the Olympics. “I don’t know. I didn’t ask how much they pay attention to it.“

Michael in Houston is a teacher and coach and asked JB if he’d be doing a coaching clinic in his area in the future. “I’m in Las Vegas this year. It’s a NIKE event from May 18-20. I think I speak on the 19ths. . I’ve done clinics in Houston before. Every State has an association and I’ve done most of them. I used to do 10 a year. Now I just do NIKE in the fall and the spring. I want to talk about a lot of things but everybody just wants me to talk about the zone so I talk about the zone”, (chuckles). I hope opposing coaches don’t attend those clinics.

Russell Wilson signing with the Yankees is “interesting. Why not?”

Tiger Woods shot a 70 in a tournament where the leader was just 4 under, (he had a 71 today and is four shots of the lead). “If he stays healthy he’ll win. He needs 8-10 tournaments. Anyone else would take a year.” The guy who played with Woods in the first round, who won the Fed Ex Cup, (Brandt Snedeker in 2012), was 4 over. When you play with Tiger Woods, it’s different. 2,000 people follow you around. There are people at a PGA event but they don’t normally follow one group around.”

Gomez said that his nephew had just that night won a race at the Empire 8 swimming championships. Jim has been to swimming competitions with his kids. “I’m glad we got out of that early. They got on from 7AM to 10PM. They call it a “swimming festival”.

Gomez was late. He says he lives in Cicero and it took time to get past the Chick-fil-A traffic jam. They’ve opened the first on in this area in front of the Home depo in Cicero. That’s always been a rather quiet retail area where, if you needed something from home depo, you could always find a parking place. A caller named Matt who is also from Cicero and they said the place was packed all the way to the Home depo doors. I shop at that Home depot quite a bit and am wondering where I’ll have to park now. JB lauded Chick-fil-A saying his kids love to go there when the team is on the road, (It’s a company based in Georgia). He said the chicken sandwiches are “not great but they are hot” and that they make the best milkshakes on the planet- “the old fashioned way, with ice cream”. He said the staff is always very friendly, (although if they are serving a 100 people that might be tested).. Jim doesn’t know how they keep enough chicken on hand for all the customers they get. “I’ve been there at 10:30 and it’s full. And it’s full all day, not just for lunch and dinner. I might go there in a couple of months. They will wind up having 5-6 in Syracuse, 5-6 in Rochester, 5-6 in Buffalo, etc.”
Customers line up in Cicero as first Chick-fil-A opens in Upstate NY

The two worst restaurant meals I have ever had are, in chronological order:

1) At a KFC in Utica in 1975. I was in training for my government job and a KFC was near the office. I decided to check it out. It was the John Y. brown Era, when he bought the brand from Colonel Sanders and told his workers to make the product as cheaply as possible. The Colonel heard about it and went to a KFC, ordered some chicken and put it down after a few bits and walked out, saying that it was the worst chicken he’d ever taste. He threatened to advertise against the band. That’s when they came out with “original recipe”, which was making it the way the Colonel made it. But that hadn’t happened yet and what I got was a bucket of grease with some forlorn-looking pieces of chicken floating in it. I couldn’t stand it and left, just as the colonel did. But I couldn’t do anything about it.

2) At a Chick-fil-A outside of Chapel Hill, North Carolina about 15 years later. My parents had moved down there and I was visiting. Dad and I had played some golf, (more of it than we had intended) and decided to stop in at a Chick-fil-A to see what it was like. I got a soggy, cold chicken sandwich and a cup of “iced tea” that seemed to be nothing but sugar water.

I related my experience at the Chick-fil-A to the Coach and he told me that was the only complaint about them he had ever heard. I closed by saying “Coach, I’ll see you at the Chick-fil-A” he said, “Maybe, in about May. Maybe if they serve soggy sandwiches and sugar water I could get into Home Depot.

 

[manleyzoo]

Why would playing against college players and coaches part time improve your game more than making it your profession?

For one thing, you're starting at rock bottom. As Boeheim has said, NBA teams can carry 17 guys. The likelihood that your game will improve just because you make it your profession for a couple of years isn't all that high.

 

[721Comstock]

For one thing, you're starting at rock bottom. As Boeheim has said, NBA teams can carry 17 guys. The likelihood that your game will improve just because you make it your profession for a couple of years isn't all that high.

... as opposed to how much your game will improve under NCAA mandated practice limits, against lesser quality competition, with less than half as many games each season?
How much do you think Frank Howard is improving going against Little Red these days?

How much time to Pros have to spend in class and studying for their Rhetorical Studies degrees?

Don't answer that - it's a Rhetorical question.

Almost EVERYBODY gets better quicker at ANYTHING when they do it professionally full time,
vs. what is effectively a hobby or part-time job at best - yes, even on the D1 college level.

 

[manleyzoo]

... as opposed to how much your game will improve under NCAA mandated practice limits, against lesser quality competition, with less than half as many games each season?
How much do you think Frank Howard is improving going against Little Red these days?

How much time to Pros have to spend in class and studying for their Rhetorical Studies degrees?

Don't answer that - it's a Rhetorical question.

Almost EVERYBODY gets better quicker at ANYTHING when they do it professionally full time,
vs. what is effectively a hobby or part-time job at best - yes, even on the D1 college level.

All good points but a bit rhetorical . The whole idea on how to improve is to actually play. Frank Howard is a good example. He's playing, that's a big reason why he's better. And he's maturing I hope by taking rhetorical studies classes. Yes, the hill to climb to get better in college isn't close to what you have to do to get on the floor in the pros. But you get better by playing not just by practicing. Bottom of the roster NBA guys don't play. And G league guys with few exceptions don't get quite good enough to play at the next level. In college, you can get better and get on the floor the whole season. That's what makes you better. Not who you practice against but who you play against. And if you're not playing you're not going to get better. Unless you're a physical freak, hopefully the combination of playing and maturing gets you good enough to get on the floor at the next level.

 

[orangenirvana]

I think it's the G League now because gatorade sponsors it. Interesting comment about Lydon. It's funny when people get mad at the truth.

I’m surprised he let it out. There was a big blow up.

On this I am with JB. Lydon had a massive green light here. Pay for play isn't easier.

My point was Lydon was gone when Hop left. JB and Lydon weren't close. They had respect for each other but Lydon wasn't close with JB. Lydon wasn't staying this year when Hop left. He declared right after the Ole Miss game but he was going thru the process and could have come back. Once Hop left he signed with an agent and JB didn't even know.

I get that, just find the logic a little goofy.

Tyler Lydon is a cream puff.

That may rub people the wrong way but it's my own opinion based on how he played last season, his behavior on Twitter and everything else that's been made public. I would be shocked if we ever saw him play significant minutes in the NBA.

 

[OttoMets]

Wait, so is JB acknowledging that playing guys 40 minutes a game can wear them down?

Surprised this didn't get more attention. From "college kids don't get tired" to "32 minutes is optimal" - wonder why he thinks that?

And I wonder how the minority of science-deniers and people who argue over Boeheim's throwaway lines will explain that clarification?