The lack of concern for the offense on this board is baffling to me

[SoBristol]

For the record, I was not one of them. For some reason, Marrone always had my confidence. Shafer- not so much.

There's no reason for this. Just a gut reaction.

Candidly, I felt the same way about Marrone. He was a bit stoical, but was smart and determined in his approach. Set a great example in how he conducted himself.
Shafer -- well, so much depends on getting performance in November. You beat rivals, you gain the confidence of fans. You close well with the 2014 recruiting class, same thing. We have had a rough October, and lost 2 of our better recruits to flips. But November is the test for Shafer's team, and then the 2014 class.

 

[FAL]

Whew! Glad everybody got all that crap off their chests--everybody feeling better? Hope the players and coaches had a similar opportunity to vent their frustrations with this season and focus on the remaining schedule. 6 and 6 or bust!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I've always cared a ton about the offense, even last season when it was good and the type of thing I've always dreamed of.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I've always cared a ton about the offense, even last season when it was good and the type of thing I've always dreamed of.

Because it wins games... Once Pugh came back we were in every game and were tough to stop...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Because it wins games...

It's incredible how many people fail to understand that, though.

 

[TheCusian]

It's incredible how many people fail to understand that, though.

Last years WVU team begs to differ. They were exposed so thoroughly on D, that their NFL players couldn't overcome it.

Declarative statements about O being the thing that wins you games is only a part of the story. I agree that in CFB these days, O is more important - but you need a serviceable D. The best teams have both. Always.

----

I don't think I know how you coach that way anyways? You hire and recruit both sides of the ball.

 

[Millhouse]

It's incredible how many people fail to understand that, though.

what gets me is that the people most likely to correctly point out all our structural disadvantages compared to the factories are often the ones who most want to emulate the schemes of the factories.

If you are so talented that you have a legitimate shot at the national title, the last thing you'd want to do is have your defense face some outlier offense in practice everyday. If you really think you need to beat every team on your schedule and you think your talent can carry you, the smart move is to run a middle of the road offense that will prepare your defense well for every game. you'll still be able to score because you'll have the cream of the crop blocking and receiving.

That ain't us

I can't really tell what GM wants to do. Jury's out because QBs ruin everything. I really want to use all caps and point out that our defense often stinks no matter what so running an offense for them to practice against shouldn't factor in as much as it does at a factory.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Last years WVU team begs to differ. They were exposed so thoroughly on D, that their NFL players couldn't overcome it.

Declarative statements about O being the thing that wins you games is only a part of the story. I agree that in CFB these days, O is more important - but you need a serviceable D. The best teams have both. Always.

----

I don't think I know how you coach that way anyways? You hire and recruit both sides of the ball.

Very very few teams have both, maybe 4-5 out of 107 or whatever it is. For every WVU, there is a Texas A&M, Baylor, ASU, Oregon, etc. NW makes bowl games every year because they score points. WELL THEY LOST 4 IN A ROW!!! BFD, they grind out bowl appearances every year. You just aren't going to consistently play shutdown defense these days, it's a pipedream. TCU built their program on defense, how is that working in the Big 12? It doesn't work. Sure elite teams are good at both, we are never going to be there.

 

[TheCusian]

Very very few teams have both, maybe 4-5 out of 107 or whatever it is. For every WVU, there is a Texas A&M, Baylor, ASU, Oregon, etc. NW makes bowl games every year because they score points. WELL THEY LOST 4 IN A ROW!!! BFD, they grind out bowl appearances every year. You just aren't going to consistently play shutdown defense these days, it's a pipedream. TCU built their program on defense, how is that working in the Big 12? It doesn't work. Sure elite teams are good at both, we are never going to be there.

So you stop trying to be good at defense? How do you even do that?

The only area where you decide to focus on one over the other is recruiting and where you place them once on campus. I think you could make the case that TE > DE with Thompson could show a lean towards defense.

Never elite at both? Ever? I couldn't disagree more. There is always a chance. I don't think we'll be there anytime in the next couple of years - but all time?

Bottom line is that you are always coaching, recruiting and working towards being elite on both. The chance we ever get there is slim - but if you're a competitive person (like you know Shafer is) you strive for both.

 

[TheCusian]

what gets me is that the people most likely to correctly point out all our structural disadvantages compared to the factories are often the ones who most want to emulate the schemes of the factories.

If you are so talented that you have a legitimate shot at the national title, the last thing you'd want to do is have your defense face some outlier offense in practice everyday. If you really think you need to beat every team on your schedule and you think your talent can carry you, the smart move is to run a middle of the road offense that will prepare your defense well for every game. you'll still be able to score because you'll have the cream of the crop blocking and receiving.

That ain't us

I can't really tell what GM wants to do. Jury's out because QBs ruin everything. I really want to use all caps and point out that our defense often stinks no matter what so running an offense for them to practice against shouldn't factor in as much as it does at a factory.

I don't think our MAC coaches think like this. I think they agree with you, mostly. My guess is that they think they can out-scheme on D and win with a shifty, fast O. Obviously, they are failing at out-scheming teams on D and don't have the players at the WR position for the fast O - but that seems like the direction.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Last years WVU team begs to differ.

So what?

I don't mean for that to be snippy. It's a genuine question. Last year's WVU team was bad on defense. So what?

 

[rosconey]

Good Offense, win special teams, you have a winning record in college football. People here still think defense matters. The offense is close to the worst ever and is competing with Pariani , we have one good year of offense and one good year of qb play in 15 years, we wonder why we are irrelevant. It's disgusting what GMC is putting out there, hopefully he can recruit his way of it. But But, But, Nassib had 12 Td's and 6 inerceptions his sophomore year!!! or whatever the it was, I stand by my statement, in the modern college football era, 1 good year in offense and qb play in 15 years. That is why this program sucks.

No facilities, no recruits, no money to hire a experienced HC, no money to hire and experienced OC, it's really that simple. Get some money, get some facilities, coaches, recruits... win some games or we could continue to try and hit the trifecta with a bunch of 25-1 claimers

way too much truth there buddy:bang:

 

[Millhouse]

I don't think our MAC coaches think like this. I think they agree with you, mostly. My guess is that they think they can out-scheme on D and win with a shifty, fast O. Obviously, they are failing at out-scheming teams on D and don't have the players at the WR position for the fast O - but that seems like the direction.

WMU
Minn tim brewster
Cleveland (mangini)
Miami (golden)
Arkansas (post petrino - john l smith)

i don't know what he wants to do yet. hope you're right.

 

[Millhouse]

So you stop trying to be good at defense? How do you even do that?

The only area where you decide to focus on one over the other is recruiting and where you place them once on campus. I think you could make the case that TE > DE with Thompson could show a lean towards defense.

Never elite at both? Ever? I couldn't disagree more. There is always a chance. I don't think we'll be there anytime in the next couple of years - but all time?

Bottom line is that you are always coaching, recruiting and working towards being elite on both. The chance we ever get there is slim - but if you're a competitive person (like you know Shafer is) you strive for both.

each side of the ball practices against each other.

if you choose an outlier on offense, your defense might suffer. the offense might benefit more but a lot of defensive coaches don't look at that. they start with their side of the ball and then hope talent gets it done on offense.

i think it's easier to be good on offense than defense so i would rather spend the big coaching money on an offensive guy. to go unbeaten you need to be good at both. but there's no blueprint for us to have our stars align that much. we'd have to get lucky. in the meantime, go for offense.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

in the meantime, go for offense.

I also suspect that choice would do a lot for improving attendance by putting out a compelling product for the casual fan.

 

[SoBristol]

each side of the ball practices against each other.

if you choose an outlier on offense, your defense might suffer. the offense might benefit more but a lot of defensive coaches don't look at that. they start with their side of the ball and then hope talent gets it done on offense.

i think it's easier to be good on offense than defense so i would rather spend the big coaching money on an offensive guy. to go unbeaten you need to be good at both. but there's no blueprint for us to have our stars align that much. we'd have to get lucky. in the meantime, go for offense.

What Marrone did, though, was something different. He won with defense in 2010. He built his teams with more toughness & size. When he brought in transfers (the Hofstra duo) or jucos, it was to add size. The only exceptions, when he brought in offense, were Paulus ( a very special case) and Chris Clark. He recruited taller WRs, but did not bring in highly-rated WRs.

If you want to go for offense, you need to attract a 4-star QB and a couple of stellar WRs. Or, when you go the juco route, you look to add play-makers.
You'd think the Dome would have appeal for that.

 

[TheCusian]

So what?

I don't mean for that to be snippy. It's a genuine question. Last year's WVU team was bad on defense. So what?

I think they are wishing for a better defense. We killed them for three years because we slowed their O enough to take advantage of their horrible D.

Holgerson was/is a dynamic offense focused coach. His D has been truly awful all but one of the years. If he loses his job it will be due to his lack of defense .

 

[Millhouse]

What Marrone did, though, was something different. He won with defense in 2010. He built his teams with more toughness & size. When he brought in transfers (the Hofstra duo) or jucos, it was to add size. The only exceptions, when he brought in offense, were Paulus ( a very special case) and Chris Clark. He recruited taller WRs, but did not bring in highly-rated WRs.

If you want to go for offense, you need to attract a 4-star QB and a couple of stellar WRs. Or, when you go the juco route, you look to add play-makers.
You'd think the Dome would have appeal for that.

i'm admittedly dismissing 2010. if a whole year and a whole conference can be an anomaly that was it. it's really remarkable that so many crappy offenses were concentrated in one conference.

defenses like 2010 are great but they're pretty tough to repeat, as shafer has shown. i'm all for having good defense. i just resign myself to chalking it up to luck

marrone went for the close to the vest strategy in 2011, it failed, then said oh it and hanged brains on offense.

 

[Millhouse]

I think they are wishing for a better defense. We killed them for three years because we slowed their O enough to take advantage of their horrible D.

Holgerson was/is a dynamic offense focused coach. His D has been truly awful all but one of the years. If he loses his job it will be due to his lack of defense .

his problem is that he's a crazy alcoholic bald guy with random long sprouts

i want coaches who aren't crazy to take the good parts from the nuts. the coaching fraternity is so conventional and insulated the only people who'll do anything unconventional are people who are literally insane

each generation of nuts gets less nutty. briles looks the part, for instance. he seems like a normal gym teacher. vs leach who looks like a with a goiter and holgorsen who looks like a methhead hulkamaniac brother

 

[ForeverOrange]

I hear you guys talking about winning with the offense, and to a certain degree I agree, however, watching WR's streaking down the field like they are playing pitch and catch on us, is very painful, we don't need to be the steel curtain, but damn can we at least make a team feel like scoring on us is difficult?

 

[Alsacs]

Our passing game is a dumpster fire because our WRs are sub par and our QB has no confidence if his first read is covered. Our offense scares the crap out of me, but I think our running backs and offensive line are decent enough to be able to score some points. McDonald only had 1 bad game which was the opener, and I like his recruiting ability so I will give through next year to learn on the job as long as he continues getting athletes to come to Syracuse.

I have no confidence in any part on the Syracuse roster, but just because I don't have confidence doesn't mean we can't execute and make plays. Doug Marrone left no depth at QB, DE, WR and while he had his QB ready to come here in Zack Allen with the lack of talent at WR and DE I doubt we would have a good offense this year.