The only thing consistent about our schedule over the years...

[Scooch]

... is how inconsistent it is!

For kicks, I looked up how many games we've played by opponent over the 100+ years of SU football. It's remarkable how the one constant is that there has been very few constants!

Since our annual series against Penn State ended 20 years ago, and since three of our all-time top 10 are now 1-AAs, there are really only 5 BCS-level teams left that we've had any long-term history with: Pitt, WV, BC, Rutgers and Maryland. And we'll be playing 3 of them every year in the ACC. Kind of remarkable.

Take a look:

1. Penn State - 70
2. Pitt - 67
3. Colgate - 66
4. West Virginia - 59
5. BC - 46
6. Rutgers - 42
7. Temple - 36
8. Cornell - 34
9. Maryland - 34
10. Holy Cross - 28
11. Navy - 27
12. Hobart - 25
12. Rochester - 25
14. Columbia - 24
15. Miami - 22
16. Army - 21
17. Syracuse AA - 19
18. Virginia Tech - 17
19. BU - 16
20. Brown - 15
20. Clarkson - 15
22. Hamilton - 13
22. Michigan State - 13
24. Cincinnati - 12
24. Illinois - 12
24. Michigan - 12
24. Nebraska - 12

 

[Scooch]

FYI, if you look at just the past 52 years (1960-2011), when we basically had purged most of the northeastern schools that are now 1-AA/Ivies from the schedule, the top 10 looks like:

1. Pitt - 52
2. WVU - 52
3. BC - 43
4. Penn State - 33
4. Rutgers - 33
6. Navy - 26
6. Temple - 26
8. Maryland - 24
9. Miami - 22
10. Virginia Tech - 17

Interesting that 5 of the top 10 will be ACC conference mates.

 

[javadoc]

FYI, if you look at just the past 52 years (1960-2011), when we basically had purged most of the northeastern schools that are now 1-AA/Ivies from the schedule, the top 10 looks like:

1. Pitt - 52
2. WVU - 52
3. BC - 43
4. Penn State - 33
4. Rutgers - 33
6. Navy - 26
6. Temple - 26
8. Maryland - 24
9. Miami - 22
10. Virginia Tech - 17

Interesting that 5 of the top 10 will be ACC conference mates.

Also interesting that by the time Wayne Morgan graduates, Pitt will be our #1 opponent, and is likely to remain so in perpetuity.

 

[kingottoiii]

... is how inconsistent it is!

For kicks, I looked up how many games we've played by opponent over the 100+ years of SU football. It's remarkable how the one constant is that there has been very few constants!

Since our annual series against Penn State ended 20 years ago, and since three of our all-time top 10 are now 1-AAs, there are really only 5 BCS-level teams left that we've had any long-term history with: Pitt, WV, BC, Rutgers and Maryland. And we'll be playing 3 of them every year in the ACC. Kind of remarkable.

The list since the 1A/1AA split, which I personally consider the modern era, see below.

 

[kingottoiii]

Ok I looked it up. These are the teams we have played 10 times or more from 1978-2011:

Pitt - 34
WV -34
RU - 32
BC - 28
Temple - 24
VT - 16
Miami - 15
PSU - 15
Navy - 12
Cincy - 12
Louisville - 11
MD - 10
ECU - 10

So we...

Keep Pitt
Trade WV for BC (IMO a big downgrade)
Trade RU for MD (small upgrade)
Trade Cincy and UL for VT and Miami (big upgrade)

 

[Rocco]

ECU - 10

This is so random.

Also, can't wait for the ACC schedule, but I am bummed we won't be playing WVU anymore. I guess we will have to keep the Schwartzwalder trophy cozy in Syracuse.

 

[Chip]

Ok I looked it up. These are the teams we have played 10 times or more from 1978-2011:

Pitt - 34
WV -34
RU - 32
BC - 28
Temple - 24
VT - 16
Miami - 15
PSU - 15
Navy - 12
Cincy - 12
Louisville - 11
MD - 10
ECU - 10

So we...

Keep Pitt
Trade WV for BC (IMO a big downgrade)
Trade RU for MD (small upgrade)
Trade Cincy and UL for VT and Miami (big upgrade)

I don't know that I agree that trading WV for BC is a big downgrade. Maybe it's better to combine them. I think trading WV and RU for BC and MD is an overall upgrade. I just find that combo to be more interesting. And also because it's at RU's expense. Maybe we don't NEED RU to fall for us to be good, but it would certainly be a big help. Much of our success came when they didn't care. No kid from Florida was picking them over us. Hell, no kid from NJ was picking them over us.

As for BC, I just like playing them, as epic as some of those WVU games have been. Love going to BC for the away game, great place to see a game. Such a college feel, yet a big city with plenty to do afterwords. WVU just never strikes me as somewhere I'd enjoy. I know it's a party school but there are way too many people too close to being unglued. Whole place just reeks of trashy to me. RU is pretty much the same. College Park has a lot of that too, but DC is a short subway ride.

When I look at Scooch's top 10, 5 of them are on the menu going forward, and of the other 5, there are only 2 games on there I will miss. WVU because some of them were classic battles, and everyone would like Penn State back, but it's never happening regularly. The other 3, who cares.

 

[Scooch]

Another way to look at it is that we didn't trade WVU, rather they chose to leave the Big East. Does anyone seriously think that had SU and Pitt not announced they were leaving that WVU wouldn't have jumped to the Big 12 anyway?

So they chose to leave, and we chose to leave, and our series would have ended regardless. I'll miss our history, but I see WVU as another rival that is based on performance, not geography or institutional similarity. If someday we're good, and say NC State or Clemson is good, and we have some heated games, we'll trigger a very similar performance-based rivalry.

Now we are definitely trading Rutgers and UConn for BC and Maryland, and that is glorious.

 

[kingottoiii]

As for BC, I just like playing them, as epic as some of those WVU games have been. Love going to BC for the away game, great place to see a game. Such a college feel, yet a big city with plenty to do afterwords. WVU just never strikes me as somewhere I'd enjoy. I know it's a party school but there are way too many people too close to being unglued. Whole place just reeks of trashy to me. RU is pretty much the same. College Park has a lot of that too, but DC is a short subway ride.

Personally WV has always been a big game. BC IMO is like playing Seton Hall in BBall. Nice easy road trip where we have a ton of fans show up. But the team itself I could careless about ever playing. I cannot ever see myself getting up for a BC game the way I used to for WV.

 

[OrangePA]

quote="Scooch, post: 190290, member: 628"]FYI, if you look at just the past 52 years (1960-2011), when we basically had purged most of the northeastern schools that are now 1-AA/Ivies from the schedule, the top 10 looks like:

1. Pitt - 52
2. WVU - 52
3. BC - 43
4. Penn State - 33
4. Rutgers - 33
6. Navy - 26
6. Temple - 26
8. Maryland - 24
9. Miami - 22
10. Virginia Tech - 17

Interesting that 5 of the top 10 will be ACC conference mates.[/quote]


Good point.

The move to the ACC will, in many respects, be return to the past with BC, Pitt, MD, Miami and Va Tech as well as NC State - a program we have played with some regularity.

And the move w

 

[qdawgg]

Personally WV has always been a big game. BC IMO is like playing Seton Hall in BBall. Nice easy road trip where we have a ton of fans show up. But the team itself I could careless about ever playing. I cannot ever see myself getting up for a BC game the way I used to for WV.

And to kind of piggy back on that thought - WV felt like such a big game because it was a team we cared about and had a real rivalry with. I think once we get to the ACC, there are so many teams that people will care about playing by the end of the season we won't care that much that we never played WV

 

[Scooch]

And to kind of piggy back on that thought - WV felt like such a big game because it was a team we cared about and had a real rivalry with. I think once we get to the ACC, there are so many teams that people will care about playing by the end of the season we won't care that much that we never played WV

I agree with this, but really it only works if SU is good.

If we can get back to that 90s level of performance -- 8+ win seasons, explosive offenses, etc -- then we're going to have some real meaningful ACC games. A November game in the Dome between a 7-2 SU team and an 8-1 Florida State or 7-2 Clemson would be fantastic. And no one would be longing for WVU I would believe.

If it's a 3-6 SU team playing those opponents then of course we won't care as much, just like we didn't care when a crappy SU team was playing a #5 Cincinnati.

 

[qdawgg]

Agree 100%

 

[kingottoiii]

I agree with this, but really it only works if SU is good.

If we can get back to that 90s level of performance -- 8+ win seasons, explosive offenses, etc -- then we're going to have some real meaningful ACC games. A November game in the Dome between a 7-2 SU team and an 8-1 Florida State or 7-2 Clemson would be fantastic. And no one would be longing for WVU I would believe.

If it's a 3-6 SU team playing those opponents then of course we won't care as much, just like we didn't care when a crappy SU team was playing a #5 Cincinnati.

I think if someone is going to fill my WV void it would be MD. If SU is back to 8-9 Ws seasons and MD is the same, then I could see that being the game outside of the power teams. FSU and Clemson will always be big games because they are the alpha dogs. Much like playing Miami and VT were in the old BE. The thing that always made WV big was that we were such similar programs. I think MD could fill that especially with HCRE there. Overall I think MD could develop into our main rival in all sports. Too bad the ACC screwed up by making BC our twice a year rival in BBall. Playing MD twice a year in BBall, yearly in FB, and yearly in Lax would escalate things quickly. Plus both schools tend to pull from the same HS students to fill admissions. BC gets NE Catholic HS students. It made more sense for BC to be with Pitt, which tends to be a Catholic city.

 

[Scooch]

I think if someone is going to fill my WV void it would be MD. If SU is back to 8-9 Ws seasons and MD is the same, then I could see that being the game outside of the power teams. FSU and Clemson will always be big games because they are the alpha dogs. Much like playing Miami and VT were in the old BE. The thing that always made WV big was that we were such similar programs. I think MD could fill that especially with HCRE there. Overall I think MD could develop into our main rival in all sports. Too bad the ACC screwed up by making BC our twice a year rival in BBall. Playing MD twice a year in BBall, yearly in FB, and yearly in Lax would escalate things quickly. Plus both schools tend to pull from the same HS students to fill admissions. BC gets NE Catholic HS students. It made more sense for BC to be with Pitt, which tends to be a Catholic city.

I lay 50/50 odds on HCRE even being there by the time SU starts ACC play.

I don't know where you live, but in my neck of the woods (CT and NYC) I run into a ton of BC grads. Many, many more than MD grads. Meanwhile I know all of 2 WVU grads.

I'm not so concerned with determining some kind of direct replacement for West Virginia. They were a great historic rival, but like I said, there was nothing geographically or institutionally similar between us and them. We'll be fine.

 

[sufan]

Another way to look at it is that we didn't trade WVU, rather they chose to leave the Big East. Does anyone seriously think that had SU and Pitt not announced they were leaving that WVU wouldn't have jumped to the Big 12 anyway?

So they chose to leave, and we chose to leave, and our series would have ended regardless. I'll miss our history, but I see WVU as another rival that is based on performance, not geography or institutional similarity. If someday we're good, and say NC State or Clemson is good, and we have some heated games, we'll trigger a very similar performance-based rivalry.

Now we are definitely trading Rutgers and UConn for BC and Maryland, and that is glorious.

-----------------

The real tradeoff is:

1) Houston, SMU, San Diego, Boise, UL, Cin, UCF, USF, and one of Uconn or RU (who would have gone to the ACC if SU said no)

vs. 2) Miami, FSU, Clemson, GT, UNC, Duke, Wake, NCS, VT, UVA, MD, Pitt, BC
plus 3 OOC games

 

[omniorange]

FYI, if you look at just the past 52 years (1960-2011), when we basically had purged most of the northeastern schools that are now 1-AA/Ivies from the schedule, the top 10 looks like:

1. Pitt - 52
2. WVU - 52
3. BC - 43
4. Penn State - 33
4. Rutgers - 33
6. Navy - 26
6. Temple - 26
8. Maryland - 24
9. Miami - 22
10. Virginia Tech - 17

Interesting that 5 of the top 10 will be ACC conference mates.

Which is precisely why, as you and most sane posters realize, the move to the ACC had to get done. Football is the gravy train in college athletics and in terms of football the line-up in the ACC is way more attractive now than what the Big East had become and in a different universe from what the Big East will soon be.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Scooch]

Which is precisely why, as you and most sane posters realize, the move to the ACC had to get done. Football is the gravy train in college athletics and in terms of football the line-up in the ACC is way more attractive now than what the Big East had become and in a different universe from what the Big East will soon be.

Cheers,
Neil

To be fair, I get the sense that the vast majority of people here have a feeling ranging from accepting to ecstatic when it comes to the ACC move.

It's the hoops-centric people that seem to be against it. And I get that, kinda. But that's just the way college athletics has evolved. We simply don't have nearly as much in common anymore with the Georgetowns, Villanovas, Seton Halls and Providences as we do with the Marylands, UNCs, Virgnias and BCs.

 

[All4SU]

Difficult to imagine that there are only 9 teams that SU has played more than 30 times...considering SU has played football...well, forever. Also, surprised that Army is not higher on the list.

 

[All4SU]

To be fair, I get the sense that the vast majority of people here have a feeling ranging from accepting to ecstatic when it comes to the ACC move.

It's the hoops-centric people that seem to be against it. And I get that, kinda. But that's just the way college athletics has evolved. We simply don't have nearly as much in common anymore with the Georgetowns, Villanovas, Seton Halls and Providences as we do with the Marylands, UNCs, Virgnias and BCs.

You've got to wonder why the BE hoops-onlies don't just jettison the FB schools and play old style BE hoops with SJU, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Nova, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Marquette and add Xavier. (9)
The FB schools would go off to their hodgepodge conference of: UConn, Buttgers, USF, L'Ville, Cincy, Memphis, Navy, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Boise State and San Diego State. (12) And yes, I actually had to look up that list, because there is no way that I -- or anyone else for that matter -- could actually remember who is going to be in the BE. (Which is their inherent problem.) I suspect once the wheat and chaff have settled, this will be the outcome. Two conference -- some measure of alliance to play each other in BBall. But not the same conference.

 

[Scooch]

You've got to wonder why the BE hoops-onlies don't just jettison the FB schools and play old style BE hoops with SJU, Georgetown, Notre Dame, Nova, Seton Hall, Providence, DePaul, Marquette and add Xavier. (9)
The FB schools would go off to their hodgepodge conference of: UConn, Buttgers, USF, L'Ville, Cincy, Memphis, Navy, Central Florida, Houston, SMU, Boise State and San Diego State. (12) And yes, I actually had to look up that list, because there is no way that I -- or anyone else for that matter -- could actually remember who is going to be in the BE. (Which is their inherent problem.) I suspect once the wheat and chaff have settled, this will be the outcome. Two conference -- some measure of alliance to play each other in BBall. But not the same conference.

The answer I've always given when people would talk about the BE splitting along hoops/football lines was money. Say what you will, but the BE has always been more valuable as a hybrid entity than as two separate entities.

Now, I do not know if that's necessarily still the case given the new membership. I suspect it is, otherwise the hoops schools would have split already.

 

[Chip]

The answer I've always given when people would talk about the BE splitting along hoops/football lines was money. Say what you will, but the BE has always been more valuable as a hybrid entity than as two separate entities.

Now, I do not know if that's necessarily still the case given the new membership. I suspect it is, otherwise the hoops schools would have split already.

Seems like it's a lot of work to split off, negotiation on those items that always come up (MSG, naming rights, etc.). It wouldn't surprise me if there is some research going on behind the scenes. And once the dust settles, the hoops schools will take a good long look at going on their own. Just don't think they would have had time to do it yet, and if they can get one more year of SU on their schedules, why not take it.

 

[sufan]

Seems like it's a lot of work to split off, negotiation on those items that always come up (MSG, naming rights, etc.). It wouldn't surprise me if there is some research going on behind the scenes. And once the dust settles, the hoops schools will take a good long look at going on their own. Just don't think they would have had time to do it yet, and if they can get one more year of SU on their schedules, why not take it.

-----------------



The real issue is what does ND want.

One would think the BB only schools probably don't want to leave if it means they give up the ND connection. ND was chair of the expansion committee: they obviously want to have stronger competition for their sports other than football.

But it really seems like a strange collection of schools at this point.