The Turnover

[hoopsupstate]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not. The guy (Howard)who passes the ball is ultimately responsible when the ball is in his hands, but G made two mistakes on that play. The offensive player has to read the defense too and G didn't. If Robinson shoots the gap, then G has to flare to the corner or he needs to curl tight around the screen. If he curls tight, Robinson would have ran over him and probably gets called for a foul. A fifth year senior needs to read this. Robinson made a great play and you have to give him credit for the play. It's quite a learning experience for Frank, but it's a bad play at that stage of the game. I didn't like the last set for the final shot. Where in the world is everyone else? Cooney had no one to pass the ball two. It looked like no one wanted to be anywhere near the ball. Even G and Richardson couldn't run faster than Cooney could dribble to catch up to the play. I thought that was troubling to me. Very frustrating game.

 

[007]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed or not. The guy (Howard)who passes the ball is ultimately responsible when the ball is in his hands, but G made two mistakes on that play. The offensive player has to read the defense too and G didn't. If Robinson shoots the gap, then G has to flare to the corner or he needs to curl tight around the screen. If he curls tight, Robinson would have ran over him and probably gets called for a foul. A fifth year senior needs to read this. Robinson made a great play and you have to give him credit for the play. It's quite a learning experience for Frank, but it's a bad play at that stage of the game. I didn't like the last set for the final shot. Where in the world is everyone else? Cooney had no one to pass the ball two. It looked like no one wanted to be anywhere near the ball. Even G and Richardson couldn't run faster than Cooney could dribble to catch up to the play. I thought that was troubling to me. Very frustrating game.

great points on the Robinson steal/Franklin pass.

As for the inbounds play to end the game...I'm guessing Dixon found a way to tell the SU players "listen this is the way I want you to line up. G, you need to stand in front of the inbounder. If you move, go slow and move toward the ball. Nobody set a screen on the guy we are going to front him with, ok? Now Cooney, you are probably going to get the entry pass. We need you to dribble up the left sideline and take a tough 3. Whatever you do - and this is really, really important Trevor - don't take the ball all the way to the rim. Good talk."

 

[Ghost]

great points on the Robinson steal/Franklin pass.

As for the inbounds play to end the game...I'm guessing Dixon found a way to tell the SU players "listen this is the way I want you to line up. G, you need to stand in front of the inbounder. If you move, go slow and move toward the ball. Nobody set a screen on the guy we are going to front him with, ok? Now Cooney, you are probably going to get the entry pass. We need you to dribble up the left sideline and take a tough 3. Whatever you do - and this is really, really important Trevor - don't take the ball all the way to the rim. Good talk."

My first laugh since the game ended. Good post.

 

[OttoMets]

great points on the Robinson steal/Franklin pass.

As for the inbounds play to end the game...I'm guessing Dixon found a way to tell the SU players "listen this is the way I want you to line up. G, you need to stand in front of the inbounder. If you move, go slow and move toward the ball. Nobody set a screen on the guy we are going to front him with, ok? Now Cooney, you are probably going to get the entry pass. We need you to dribble up the left sideline and take a tough 3. Whatever you do - and this is really, really important Trevor - don't take the ball all the way to the rim. Good talk."

Yeah, not sure I've seen this mentioned: regardless of whether we're screening, Gbinije's got to just get away from the inbounder. Sure, Pitt's committed to shutting him out of the play, but then he's got to flip that advantage by taking two of their defenders out of the play.

Instead he allows the defender not only to double him but to deny Richardson a return pass. Brutal.

It's so difficult to be successful when otherwise good players lack hoops IQ. Especially when they're veterans, even more so when they're guards.

This is why I believe fears about attrition hurting us next year are overblown. Nice to have very good shooters and guys who can score 20 points, but replacing them with kids with basketball intangibles -- players with sense -- will represent an immediate upgrade.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Yeah, not sure I've seen this mentioned: regardless of whether we're screening, Gbinije's got to just get away from the inbounder. Sure, Pitt's committed to shutting him out of the play, but then he's got to flip that advantage by taking two of their defenders out of the play.
Nice to have very good shooters and guys who can score 20 points, but replacing them with kids with basketball intangibles -- players with sense -- will represent an immediate upgrade.

The word is "fundamentals."
If we want to see them then we need to watch Virginia.

Instead, come crunch time, we Syracuse fans get to see the same length of the court scramble...whether it's Trevor Cooney, Tyler Ennis, Gerry McNamara, John Wallace or someone else.
That seems to be our only "play."
The guy who catches the inbounds pass dribbles upcourt and fires a 3.
Cooney missed a couple...Ennis hit one against Pitt and missed against Dayton...GMac hit a few...and Wallace beat Georgia.
Hit and you're a hero...miss and you're a goat.
But it's always the same non-play play.

And this time it doesn't seem anyone besides MAYBE Roberson had any idea where he needed to be.
Which makes me wonder...do they practice for this?

 

[jdubs30]

The word is "fundamentals."
If we want to see them then we need to watch Virginia.

Instead, come crunch time, we Syracuse fans get to see the same length of the court scramble...whether it's Trevor Cooney, Tyler Ennis, Gerry McNamara, John Wallace or someone else.
That seems to be our only "play."
The guy who catches the inbounds pass dribbles upcourt and fires a 3.
Cooney missed a couple...Ennis hit one against Pitt and missed against Dayton...GMac hit a few...and Wallace beat Georgia.
Hit and you're a hero...miss and you're a goat.
But it's always the same non-play play.

And this time it doesn't seem anyone besides MAYBE Roberson had any idea where he needed to be.
Which makes me wonder...do they practice for this?

If Roberson was on the other side of the rim, he would have had an easy put back. Once Cooney got the ball Lydon and Roberson should have sprinted toward the hoop, each of them on opposite sides of the rim. Everyone in the building knew if Cooney had it, a 3 was going up, we needed to be in a better spot for a rebound.

 

[Col. Bleep]

If Roberson was on the other side of the rim, he would have had an easy put back. Once Cooney got the ball Lydon and Roberson should have sprinted toward the hoop, each of them on opposite sides of the rim. Everyone in the building knew if Cooney had it, a 3 was going up, we needed to be in a better spot for a rebound.

Roberson had great position on the right side of the rim.
Behind him was a Pitt defender who was blocking out Lydon.
In that situation, shouldn't Lydon have moved to the left to cover the other side of the rim and leaving the Pitt player effectively blocked out by Roberson?

As much as I like Lydon, he seemed completely lost on that play...hanging at midcourt and then meandering to the basket.
He also could have cut down the lane to possibly receive a pass from Cooney.
(I know that pass never would have happened...just pointing out a possibility instead of hoisting the 3).

 

[NineOneSeven]

Roberson had great position on the right side of the rim.
Behind him was a Pitt defender who was blocking out Lydon.
In that situation, shouldn't Lydon have moved to the left to cover the other side of the rim and leaving the Pitt player effectively blocked out by Roberson?

As much as I like Lydon, he seemed completely lost on that play...hanging at midcourt and then meandering to the basket.
He also could have cut down the lane to possibly receive a pass from Cooney.
(I know that pass never would have happened...just pointing out a possibility instead of hoisting the 3).

Again, what did we draw up and what do we practice? Not everything goes according to plan. But no one had a clue

 

[jdubs30]

Again, what did we draw up and what do we practice? Not everything goes according to plan. But no one had a clue

ONe of the funniest things about this whole play is this --

I consider a lot of us fairly knowledgeable when it comes to basketball -- certainly not coaches, but we know the game well enough. When JB said "one person didn't do what they were supposed to" and the fact that, from our point of view, you could literally make an argument for ANY ONE of our guys that JB might have been referring to. I don't think the play was obvious to anyone, it's just so bizzare. Was Mali supposed get the ball? Was G supposed to cut? Was Roberson supposed to set a screen for someone? Was Cooney supposed to hit someone cutting to the basket?

I think the fact that the play seemed so bland to everyone here just shows it wasn't a brilliant design I think..

 

[NineOneSeven]

We didn't screen for anyone. Just think about that. We run screens a hundred times a game, including on the biggest TO of the game, and when we finally are in a situation that required it, we didn't do it.

 

[Madbiker]

Terrible play on the last in bounds. Other teams somehow find a way to get the ball to their best offensive player, either setting a pick/screen on the inbound or if denied then passing after the initial inbound. We never seem to be able to do that. If G can't get it the next best option is Malachi who can take it to the rim and finish or draw a foul. I'd rather Cooney just pass back to Malachi after the inbounds than taking it up court himself. He almost never hits a shot pulling up off the dribble. He's much better in a catch & shoot. So the results were predictable.

 

[Ghost]

Terrible play on the last in bounds. Other teams somehow find a way to get the ball to their best offensive player, either setting a pick/screen on the inbound or if denied then passing after the initial inbound. We never seem to be able to do that. If G can't get it the next best option is Malachi who can take it to the rim and finish or draw a foul. I'd rather Cooney just pass back to Malachi after the inbounds than taking it up court himself. He almost never hits a shot pulling up off the dribble. He's much better in a catch & shoot. So the results were predictable.

It seems like that must have been our play. We didn't really do anything at all that could possible have put the ball into G's hands. Did they think Pitt wasn't going to press? I mean, that was the inbound play?

 

[Madbiker]

It seems like that must have been our play. We didn't really do anything at all that could possible have put the ball into G's hands. Did they think Pitt wasn't going to press? I mean, that was the inbound play?

If you watch Kansas games they are amazing at running great inbounds plays in late or end of game situations.

 

[JoeySimz]

Yeh, just watched it again. Nobody even tried to get open.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yeh, just watched it again. Nobody even tried to get open.

Dumbest design of all-time. As in, nothing happened.

 

[dollarbill44]

If you watch Kansas games they are amazing at running great inbounds plays in late or end of game situations.

This. Most teams have at least one or two baseline inbounds plays that they practice periodically throughout the season so that they don't have to draw up a play or improvise. It shouldn't just be a crapshoot at the end.
There should have been screens and cuts in that last sequence and we had none of it. G, Lydon and Mail all failed at the end by basically being bystanders and JB failed big time for not having a plan.

 

[OttoMets]

If you watch Kansas games they are amazing at running great inbounds plays in late or end of game situations.

Thing is, we used to be great at this also (as anyone who remembers Lawrence Moten getting all sorts of free points or Scoop inbounding alley-oops to Kris Joseph can attest).

That's why I'm inclined to say that, while Boeheim has some responsibility for how things shook out, this was another combination of errors in execution, because we've got some players with too little sense.

Here, Roberson or Lydon (or both) were supposed to screen. That's likely who Boeheim's talking about. Gbinije made the worst error, though, camping out with two defenders an arm-span away from the inbounder.

EDIT: looking at it again, I'm reminded of a play we used to run - Lydon heads up high but ducks back to about 35 feet from the inbounder, dragging the defender and allowing Cooney to rubs his defender off and get free downcourt for a long pass.

 

[SBU72]

If Roberson was on the other side of the rim, he would have had an easy put back. Once Cooney got the ball Lydon and Roberson should have sprinted toward the hoop, each of them on opposite sides of the rim. Everyone in the building knew if Cooney had it, a 3 was going up, we needed to be in a better spot for a rebound.

Everybody should have sprinted towards the hoop! Rob and Lydon further down the court, should have been nearest. G and Mal at LEAST the top of the key, if not the foul line extended. The later two were actually behind Cooney, greatly reducing his options. And don't start up with that he wouldn't have taken them anyways. the discussion is that guys were out of position.