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Message: [QUOTE="SWC75, post: 1666572, member: 289"] So basically your posts have been a complicated way of asking for a statistical analysis of Trevor Cooney. I've worked one up below that should interest everybody. As to my original post, I was reacting to what I'd heard on the radio, which, it seemed to me, contained both extreme criticisms and defenses of Trevor Cooney and I felt the antidote was a balanced appraisal, so i went with an "Upsides/Downsides approach based on my observations of him over his career here, much like my post game analysis that are very popular. I then crunch the numbers in my "Net Points, etc." post a couple of days later. So now I've worked up some numbers on Cooney and here goes, (it's long but bear with me): The following is a ranking of the senior starting guards we’ve had since the 1982-83 seassn,(the earliest for which we have all the necessary numbers of the “net points” computation- from the SU Media Guide and Cuse.com). A “starting guard” is one whose minutes played were in the top 5 of the team for the season and was clearly a guard in his usage as determined by my memory and the numbers, (guards tend to have fewer rebounds, more assists and attempt more three pointers than small forwards: thus Lawrence Moten counts as a guard in his senior season.) There’s also a section of the media guide that lists starting line-ups and designates positons. I looked at that but they often list three guards but it seems to me that JB usually uses one player as a small forward so I limited my study to two guards per year. M = minutes per game, P = points per 40 minutes played, R= rebounds per 40 minutes, A = assists per 40 minutes, S= steals per 40 minutes, B = blocks per 40 minutes, + = the total of P, R, A, S and B, MFG = missed field goals per 40 minutes, MFY = missed free throws per 40 minutes, TO = turnovers per 40 minutes, PF- personal fouls committed per 40 minutes, - = the total of MFG, MFT, TO, PF, NP = + minus -, OE = P minus MFG and MFT, FG = NP – OE. Eric Santifer, 1982-83 31.5M, 22.7P, 6.3R, 4.2A, 1.9S, 0.2B = 35.3+ 6.6MFG, 1.4MFT, 3.3TO, 3.0PF = 15.5- 21.0NP, 14.7OE, 6.3FG Sherman Douglas, 1988-89 35.2M, 20.7P, 2.8R, 9.7A, 2.1S, 0.0B, = 35.3+ 6.8MFG, 1.9MFT, 4.2TO, 2.1PF = 15.0- 20.3NP, 12.0OE, 8.3FG Rafael Addison, 1985-86 31.6M, 18.9P, 7.1R, 5.2A, 1.6S, 0.6B = 33.4+ 7.1MFG, 0.7MFT, 2.8TO, 22.7PF = 13.3- 20.1NP 11.1OE, 9.0FG Adrian Autry, 1993-94 35.7M, 18.7P, 5.4R, 6.8A, 1.8S, 0.4B = 33.1+ 8.1MFG, 1.0MFT, 4.3TO, 2.9PF = 16.3- 16.8NP, 9.6OE, 7.2FG Lawrence Moten, 1994-95 35.3M, 22.2P, 4.7R, 3.7A, 2.1S, 0.3B = 33.0+ 9.3MFG, 1.5MFT, 3.4TO, 2.2PF = 16.4- 16.6NP, 11.4OE, 5.2FG Greg Monroe, 1986-87 31.0M, 16.6P, 3.2R, 5.2A, 1.5S, 0.1B = 26.6+ 6.4MFG, 0.6MFT, 1.8TO, 1.7PF = 10.5- 16.1NP, 9.6OE, 6.5FG Stevie Thompson 1989-90 34.6M, 20.6P, 6.0R, 3.5A, 1.7S, 0.2B = 32.0+ 8.0MFG, 3.5MFT, 2.8TO, 2.1PF + 16.4- 15.6NP, 9.1OE, 6.5FG Andy Rautins, 2009-10 32.5M, 14.9P, 4.2R, 6.0A, 2.4S, 0.3B = 27.8+ 5.8MFG, 0.5MFT, 3.4TO, 2.7PF = 12.4- 15.4NP, 8.6OE, 6.8FG Scoop Jardine, 2011-12 25.2M, 14.1P, 3.7R, 7.8A, 2.1S, 0.2B = 27.9+ 5.9MFG, 1.3MFT, 3.6TO, 1.7N = 12.5- 15.4NP, 6.9OE, 8.5FG Gerry McNamara , 2005-06 35.2M, 18.2P, 3.1R, 6.7A 2.1S, 0.1B = 30.2+ 10.3MFG, 0.4MFT, 3.8TO, 1.5PF = 16.0- 14.2NP, 7.5OE, 6.7FG Jason Hart, 1999-2000 33.8M, 14.1P, 3.5R, 7.7A, 2.2S, 0.1B = 27.6+ 6.6MFG 1.3MFT 4.1TO 2.9PF = 14.9- 12.7NP, 6.2OE, 6.5FG Kueth Duany, 2002-03 27.0M, 16.3P, 5.4R, 3.0A, 1.5S, 0.8B = 27.0+ 7.2MFG, 1.6MFT, 2.4TO, 3.2PF = 14.4- 12.6NP, 7.5OE, 5.1FG Lazarus Sims, 1995-96 35.6M, 7.1P, 4.1R, 8.3A, 1.6S, 0.1B = 21.2+ 2.9MFG, 0.7MFT, 3.6TO, 2.2PF = 9.4- 11.8NP, 3.5OE, 8.3FG Brandon Triche, 2012-13 33.8M, 16.1P, 4.1R, 4.3A, 1.5S, 0.1B = 26.1+ 7.7MFG, 1.3MFT, 3.2TO, 2.5PF = 14.7- 11.4NP, 7.1OE, 4.3FG Alan Griffin, 2000-01 36.7M, 11.3P, 4.1R, 6.5A, 1.8S, 0.1B = 23.8+ 5.6MFG, 0.8MFT, 2.5TO, 4.2PF = 13.1- 10.7NP, 4.9OE, 5.8FG Mike Hopkins, 1992-93 28.2M, 13.1P, 5.2R, 3.1A, 2.1S, 0.5B = +24.0 5.7MFG, 1.1MFT, 3.1TO, 3.7PF = 13.6- 10.4NP, 6.3OE, 4.1FG Gene Waldron, 1983-84 26.8M, 13.7P, 3.3R, 5.8A, 1.6S, 0.0B = 24.4+ 6.1MFG, 1.4MFT, 3.6Tom 3.9PF = 15.0- 9.4NP, 6.2OE, 3.2FG Trevor Cooney, 2015-16 37.2M, 14.2P, 2.6R, 2.7A, 1.7S, 0.2B = 21.4+ 8.3MFG, 0.7MFT, 1.8TO, 1.6PF = 12.4- 9.0NP, 5.2OE, 3.8FG Marius Janulis, 1997-98 32.5M, 11.8P, 3.9R, 2.5A, 1.6S, 0.1B = 19.9+ 5.8MFG, 0.2MFT, 2.0TO, 3.2PF = 11.2- 8.7NP, 5.8OE, 2.9FG That’s 19 senior starting guards in 34 seasons. Trevor Cooney is the 18th most statistically productive of them and yet he plays more minutes per game than any of them. It could be argued that minutes per game is based on the options available. It seems to me that was true the last couple of seasons but not this one: we have alternative line-ups that could have been used without him. Similarly, the argument that he gets more defensive attention than anyone because he’s our only outside shooter was more true the previous two years than it is this season. The player Cooney most resembles is the only one below him in the standings, Marius Janulis. He actually scores more than the one-dimensional Janulis but misses far more shots, (Marius shot 41.)% overall and 39.6% from three point range as a senior: Trevor is 37.2% and 34.9% respectively). Trevor’s drives to the basket more and so got to the line more. He also commits far fewer fouls, the sign of a better defensive player. But, surprisingly, Janulis was a much better rebounder, (3.9 vs. 2.6). I had thought that Trevor was a bigger, stronger player than Marius but I looked it up and Janulis was listed at 6-5 218 and Trevor is 6-4, 195. I still think Trevor is a better athlete than Marius was, (I don’t remember Marius dunking). Marius was clearly a better shooter but I think Trevor has better all-around abilities and I would expect him to have better numbers than Marius. But he doesn’t. Breaking it down stat by stat: M- Alan Griffin is closest to Trevor at 36.7 P- Jason Hart and Scoop Jardine, both point guards, at 14.1 are the closest to Trevor. R- Trevor is the worst rebounder of the 19 players: Sherman Douglas is at 2.8. A – Trevor has fewer assists than any except Janulis being the closest at 2.6. S- Despite his reputation as a ball hawk, 10 of the 19 players averaged more steals. Stevie Thompson was tied with him. B- None of these guys were shot blockers, (although I remember Alan Griffin having an unbelievable one vs. St. John’s). Cooney has good hops but almost all the guys ahead of him, (Hopkins, Duany, Rautins, Moten, Autry and Addison) were taller than he is. Santifer, Thompsons and, surprisingly the 6-2 Scoop Jardine were equal to Trevor at 0.2. + Two guys were worse than Trevor’s 21.4. The closest was Lazarus Sims at 21.2 Sims had a great year as a distributor but wasn’t a scorer. MFG- Four guys missed more shots than Trevor, with GMAC #1 and well ahead, (or behind) of him at 10.3. Autry was the closest at 8.1. MFT- Twelve guys hurt us more at the free throw line. Raf Addison and Z Sims were on a par at 0.7 Stevie Thompson was easily the worst at 3.5. TO- One thing you can say for Trevor: he doesn’t turn the ball over. Only Greg Monroe had as few turnovers at 1.8. But consider that exceeds his vaunted steals. PF- Trevor also commits fewer fouls than anyone except GMAC. - Only Sims, Monroe and Janulis have fewer negatives, even with Trevor’s missed shots. Andy Rautins has exactly the same number: 12.4 NP- Only Janulis was worse at 8.7 and he is also the closest. OE- Only Griffin and Sims were less offensively efficient than Cooney and both were point guards who didn’t score much. FG- Only Waldron and Janulis had a worse floor game than Trevor’s 3.8. Mike Hopkins, who I always though had a pretty good floor game, was the closest at 4.1. So let’s put it together: If a senior starting SU guard played as much as Alan Griffin, scored like Jason Hart or Scoop Jardine, rebounded like Sherman Douglas, passed like Marius Janulis, stole the ball as often as Stevie Thompson, blocked shots like Thompson, Jardine and Eric Santifer, shot with Adrian Autry’s accuracy, shot fouls like Rafael Addison and Lazarus Sims, took care of the ball like Greg Monroe and fouled people at the rate of Gerry McNamara, you’d have a player close to Trevor Cooney. Some of those comparisons are favorable but you’re kind of matching the wrong skills with the wrong guys. To be a senior starter for Syracuse University you’ve got to be a good college basketball player. But of the above group, Trevor Cooney is very close to the bottom. He’s played a lot because we haven’t had anyone better but I don’[t think that’s really true right now. I think it’s reasonable to say that if he’s playing poorly, someone else should get a chance. (However, fi the most obvious alternative, Malachi Richardson, is playing as badly, what are you going to do?) [/QUOTE]

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