There is nothing wrong with this team that Justin Pugh and

[GoSU96]

tighening up the turnover margin won't fix.

The difference in bad games with "peer" program is no longer measured in 20+ points, and hundreds of yards, it's measured in a handful of plays.

When Marrone took over the only major statisical category that the program was above 100th in was rushing, through 4 games 5 are above 60th and the lowest is rushing at 82.rd. On defense the only defensive category above 100 was pass defense at 84, through four games 5 are above 60th with the lowest being scoring defense at 86th.

Right now SU is 25th in total offense and 55th in total defense. I haven't done the work but I bet the last time anything like that was true was in the 90's.

The issue in front of the team is converting those yards into points, or lack there of.

That's the sign of a team that is "this" close.

 

[OrangeinBoston]

tighening up the turnover margin won't fix.

The difference in bad games with "peer" program is no longer measured in 20+ points, and hundreds of yards, it's measured in a handful of plays.

When Marrone took over the only major statisical category that the program was above 100th in was rushing, through 4 games 5 are above 60th and the lowest is rushing at 82.rd. On defense the only defensive category above 100 was pass defense at 84, through four games 5 are above 60th with the lowest being scoring defense at 86th.

Right now SU is 25th in total offense and 55th in total defense. I haven't done the work but I bet the last time anything like that was true was in the 90's.

The issue in front of the team is converting those yards into points, or lack there of.

That's the sign of a team that is "this" close.

Definitely not being a wise guy here. I am interested in your take on the play calling the last two games inside the 5 yard line.

 

[Upstate]

I think people are undervaluing this schedule, too. Not an easy slate for any team outside the top-5, especially with the BCS schools having an 11-1 cumulative record. It was never to the point where playing an FCS was like a bye week, like at most football factory schools. Had to fight each game, which makes this bye week so important.

 

[OrangePA]

Definitely not being a wise guy here. I am interested in your take on the play calling the last two games inside the 5 yard line.

I really think that questioning play calling is a pointless exercise.

We just don't know the game plan, or what the coaches are seeing, or what the QB is seeing, etc.

For me, the issues are hitting, tackling, elimination of mental mistakes and execution i.e. catching the gosh darn ball.

We must improve in those categories now.

 

[Cuseregular]

tighening up the turnover margin won't fix.

The difference in bad games with "peer" program is no longer measured in 20+ points, and hundreds of yards, it's measured in a handful of plays.

When Marrone took over the only major statisical category that the program was above 100th in was rushing, through 4 games 5 are above 60th and the lowest is rushing at 82.rd. On defense the only defensive category above 100 was pass defense at 84, through four games 5 are above 60th with the lowest being scoring defense at 86th.

Right now SU is 25th in total offense and 55th in total defense. I haven't done the work but I bet the last time anything like that was true was in the 90's.

The issue in front of the team is converting those yards into points, or lack there of.

That's the sign of a team that is "this" close.

my worry from and orthopedic perspective is just how will Pugh hold up. You lose so much strength post surgery and even with rehab, which I'm assuming hes had plenty, its so hard to reduplicate the forces and levers an OT uses in games. Shoulders are notorious for being unstable post injury so here's hoping a big hope hes able to come back and be effective.

I for one am glad they kept him out all this extra time til Pitt.

 

[Scooch]

Guess we'll find out.

 

[rrlbees]

I'd add cleaning up the penalties and better in game decisions would help. Take care of those 2 things and we are 3-1 without Pugh.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[omniorange]

I've just resigned myself to the fact that we are cursed and I now expect a loss against virtually every BCS-level opponent until such time that we win enough of those games that it would be obvious to even a fool like me that the curse has been broken.

But just in case I miss it when it happens (curse broken), would someone please PM when it happens. :noidea:

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Cadillac]

In before the Kevin Bacon all is well gif.

Seriously though, I agree.

 

[storange]

stats are nice and there is no doubt that Marrone has upgraded the talent on this team but you left out a really important stat..... 1-3 and 8 BCS losses in a row. Doug has to win these games going down the stretch or they will call for his head and it will snowball into recruiting and so on...

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Nothing is kind of a big phrase.

I hope we're close. I worry we put a lot of obstacles in our own way.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[GoSU96]

stats are nice and there is no doubt that Marrone has upgraded the talent on this team but you left out a really important stat..... 1-3 and 8 BCS losses in a row. Doug has to win these games going down the stretch or they will call for his head and it will snowball into recruiting and so on...

It's not just talent, it's performance and execution, it's coaching, it's S&C.

You can't win consistently until the teams overall talent and performance improve, you can only scheme around problems and hide weaknesses for so long. Stats aren't the be all end all, but they are indicative of the underlying capability of a team and for the first time on both sides of the ball it's not bottom tier.

 

[GoSU96]

Nothing is kind of a big phrase.

I hope we're close. I worry we put a lot of obstacles in our own way.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

They can't run right consistently, 90% of the pressures this year have come from the right, and most of the OL penalties have been on that side. Improve that significantly and what do you think will happen?

 

[MadNY3]

Respectfully, we have found new ways to lose as well.

Too many turnovers, penalties, special teams gaffes and excuses. We are 41 games into the turnaround, a massive one, but we should not be looking at a 1-3 football team.

Here's hoping we have a series of 1-0 weekends starting October 5th. Tomorrow's promise needs to really start happening then. War Damn Otto.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They can't run right consistently, 90% of the pressures this year have come from the right, and most of the OL penalties have been on that side. Improve that significantly and what do you think will happen?

Well I suppose if we improve that significantly we romp through the conference, right?

Look, I really don't know. You're the guy that always says one guy doesn't make a recruiting class. Now you're telling us one guy, Pugh, fixes everything so long as we also do better with turnovers? Seems inconsistent to me.

We have different views on Marrone. You're all chips in, I get it. I worry though that Marrone himself is at the root of a lot of our problems. I'm very encouraged by the progress we're seeing on offense and really hope it continues. There are other problems though that can't be explained away by talent or that improvement on offense covers up. I think Marrone is the architect of some of those issues. Supposedly coach and I are in agreement on that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[GoSU96]

Well I suppose if we improve that significantly we romp through the conference, right?

Look, I really don't know. You're the guy that always says one guy doesn't make a recruiting class. Now you're telling us one guy, Pugh, fixes everything so long as we also do better with turnovers? Seems inconsistent to me.

We have different views on Marrone. You're all chips in, I get it. I worry though that Marrone himself is at the root of a lot of our problems. I'm very encouraged by the progress we're seeing on offense and really hope it continues. There are other problems though that can't be explained away by talent or that improvement on offense covers up. I think Marrone is the architect of some of those issues. Supposedly coach and I are in agreement on that.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

What's inconsistent?

If this team was 95th in offense and struggling to get to 300yds and 20 pts every game as in the recent past, no one guy would make that much difference by himself. And it isn't so much that Pugh by himself is the savior, it's that with him back in you improve at BOTH tackle spots immediately, it's a twofer.

And there aren't huge issues on offense. There has been one consistent problem area from game one that has caused the team to leak oil and not score as many points as would be normal when a team is 25th in offense. Based on the first four games Nassib with time against zones is a thing of beauty. With Pugh and Hickey both in teams can't over play the run to left side. For a team that has been able to move the ball pretty consistently improved play at both tackle spots should improve efficiency and point production to go along with the yards.

It's pretty evident the offense is going to have to carry the team, the defense has tightened up a little, but they aren't making plays that win games.

 

[Chip]

tighening up the turnover margin won't fix.

The difference in bad games with "peer" program is no longer measured in 20+ points, and hundreds of yards, it's measured in a handful of plays.

When Marrone took over the only major statisical category that the program was above 100th in was rushing, through 4 games 5 are above 60th and the lowest is rushing at 82.rd. On defense the only defensive category above 100 was pass defense at 84, through four games 5 are above 60th with the lowest being scoring defense at 86th.

Right now SU is 25th in total offense and 55th in total defense. I haven't done the work but I bet the last time anything like that was true was in the 90's.

The issue in front of the team is converting those yards into points, or lack there of.

That's the sign of a team that is "this" close.

I really do think that with Pugh back, we can put that Minnesota disaster in the rear view mirror and forget it ever happened (kind of like I did with Akron in 2008 when we nearly won at WVU then beat Louisville and ND, just wasn't the same team at all, not even close).

I wonder if we can tighten the turnover margin? I worry about more fumbles and more tipped/dropped balls leading to INTs. And I worry if our D can force any. I also worry that a mid level team like Minnesota can so successfully scheme to take Sales completely out of the game. Without him involved, the offense won't keep the scoreboard operator awake.

I'd be shocked and disappointed if we look like the same team against Pitt that we did against Minnesota. I think we'll be a lot better.

 

[anglerman]

Guess we'll find out.

You also said that delone carter wouldn't play football again when i said he would. His shoulder is fine.

 

[Orangello]

tighening up the turnover margin won't fix.

The difference in bad games with "peer" program is no longer measured in 20+ points, and hundreds of yards, it's measured in a handful of plays.

When Marrone took over the only major statisical category that the program was above 100th in was rushing, through 4 games 5 are above 60th and the lowest is rushing at 82.rd. On defense the only defensive category above 100 was pass defense at 84, through four games 5 are above 60th with the lowest being scoring defense at 86th.

Right now SU is 25th in total offense and 55th in total defense. I haven't done the work but I bet the last time anything like that was true was in the 90's.

The issue in front of the team is converting those yards into points, or lack there of.

That's the sign of a team that is "this" close.

There is no way in hell that we are above the 80th let alone the 60th percentile in special teams. We are in the 110 and below ranking of all FBS teams for punts and kickoffs. Specials has been an almighty diasaster this year and DM is the ST coach. If the argument is that we're simply a handful of plays away from converting losses to wins then the statistical probability that something bad happens on any SU punt or kickoff tends to kick that argument in the nuts. I also think the scoring defense at 86th is pretty telling. That shows me that while we may be getting style points in certain defensive categories we are doing a relatively poor job of keeping the other team from scoring. I continue to believe that this team is a work in progress. They seem to have the pieces in place to succeed but cannot seem to put them together on a consistent basis. Consistency is the mark of a solid team. We don't have that yet.

 

[Dcuse]

tighening up the turnover margin won't fix.

The difference in bad games with "peer" program is no longer measured in 20+ points, and hundreds of yards, it's measured in a handful of plays.

When Marrone took over the only major statisical category that the program was above 100th in was rushing, through 4 games 5 are above 60th and the lowest is rushing at 82.rd. On defense the only defensive category above 100 was pass defense at 84, through four games 5 are above 60th with the lowest being scoring defense at 86th.

Right now SU is 25th in total offense and 55th in total defense. I haven't done the work but I bet the last time anything like that was true was in the 90's.

The issue in front of the team is converting those yards into points, or lack there of.

That's the sign of a team that is "this" close.

I was all in with all of this Go. And then Minnesota happened. This was the game in my gut that was going to launch us into conference play and turn the corner for our program. I bought into last years explanation of the insurmountable injuries and lack of depth for our late season collapse. I bought into the moral victories against Northwestern and USC. I bought into the "just win the game" thinking against Stoney Brook. But I came out of this last game totally empty and spent. I thought our performance was DISGUSTING. I'll never abandon this program but I am weary. Enough with the "this" close. We still don't get a pass rush without blitzing, we still have OL breakdowns,we still have a QB who can't escape these breakdowns and begins his slide to the ground when a defender is 15 yards from him, we still have no breakaway threat, we still have zero return game, we all of a sudden have a kicker that we doubt, we still have coverage breakdowns at the wrong times.
All this happened in the last game and ,for the first time ever, made me contemplate trying to find another passion. I am truly sick to my stomach with what I witnessed on Saturday night.




Go Orange

 

[Scooch]

You also said that delone carter wouldn't play football again when i said he would. His shoulder is fine.

Ummm, what on earth are you talking about?

 

[OrangeinBoston]

I was all in with all of this Go. And then Minnesota happened. This was the game in my gut that was going to launch us into conference play and turn the corner for our program. I bought into last years explanation of the insurmountable injuries and lack of depth for our late season collapse. I bought into the moral victories against Northwestern and USC. I bought into the "just win the game" thinking against Stoney Brook. But I came out of this last game totally empty and spent. I thought our performance was DISGUSTING. I'll never abandon this program but I am weary. Enough with the "this" close. We still don't get a pass rush without blitzing, we still have OL breakdowns,we still have a QB who can't escape these breakdowns and begins his slide to the ground when a defender is 15 yards from him, we still have no breakaway threat, we still have zero return game, we all of a sudden have a kicker that we doubt, we still have coverage breakdowns at the wrong times.
All this **** happened in the last game and ,for the first time ever, made me contemplate trying to find another passion. I am truly sick to my stomach with what I witnessed on Saturday night.

I have to agree with you. Perhaps the most emblamatic plays of the last two disasters were three series 1st down inside the 5 yard line. And the offense unravelled because of horrendous coaching mistakes.

 

[SmilinBob]

I think this was a great time to have a bye and it'll give the line some time to work together and Pugh some extra time off before smashing heads game style.

 

[OrangeMojo]

There is no way in hell that we are above the 80th let alone the 60th percentile in special teams. We are in the 110 and below ranking of all FBS teams for punts and kickoffs. Specials has been an almighty diasaster this year and DM is the ST coach. If the argument is that we're simply a handful of plays away from converting losses to wins then the statistical probability that something bad happens on any SU punt or kickoff tends to kick that argument in the nuts. I also think the scoring defense at 86th is pretty telling. That shows me that while we may be getting style points in certain defensive categories we are doing a relatively poor job of keeping the other team from scoring. I continue to believe that this team is a work in progress. They seem to have the pieces in place to succeed but cannot seem to put them together on a consistent basis. Consistency is the mark of a solid team. We don't have that yet.

Does the scoring defense statistic include all points scored against SU so far? If so then the defense gets 'credit' for the kick return and lateral return TDs which isn't fair - nor does it take into account all the short fields the defense was given to defend against NW and USC. Throw in the fact that SU is one of the few teams in the country to play 3 BCS teams so far and I don't really think that 86th ranking is an accurate representation of how the D has played.

Yes they need to do a better job of keeping teams with a short field out of the endzone - but not playing USC again should help them with that. The special teams, as you mentioned, are the real disasters for this team, not the defense.

 

[SaintTristan]

I really think that questioning play calling is a pointless exercise.

of course it is!