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Message: [QUOTE="Zelda Zonk, post: 1981664, member: 966"] Hey. I'm saying that among the maybe six alums that I speak to/have spoken to about SU basketball at any significant length, consistently over the years, one has been a staunch JB critic from the getgo. We used to have arguments in Lawrinson where I was defending JB... And the others are more moderate—respectful of certain accomplishments, critical of certain specific characteristics/styles of play, things he does or says, etc. No one says the wins don't matter. None of us agree that the sanctions were commensurate with the offenses, and yet we still don't insist the NCAA has a vendetta against us... Some don't like zone, some don't mind it, but would still prefer that we were a m2m team primarily... etc, etc. A mixed bag of opinions, but with common ground. I honestly don't know anyone who thinks he's a 'top 5' coach, and then there's no consensus on where we would put him in the list of the next 15. I don't think any of us consider him elite, but we've had this specific discussion, and "elite" was characterized as pretty much a top5 thing. But this goes back 30 years, so who knows how many coaches have been in and out of that consideration. Which leads us to something we agree on, that over 30 years, the (relative) consistency and the pretty consistent 'relevancy' are valued. What's interesting is if you speak to the most knowledgeable college ball fans who AREN'T SU loyalists, and get their unfiltered opinions on JB, you get what I just wrote above... At least, in my experience. But I don't go into those types of conversations indicating a lean in one particular direction. Sorry - almost ignored your other question. Yes, among those who had been inclined to participate in forums, they have said they dropped out because if you write anything critical, no matter how sound the logic or foundation, the criticism of the criticism is always louder/more vehement than the support. Or, that it's just not an interesting discussion if you can comfortably only express/recognize only one side of things... Not that there aren't criticisms, but, for example, one person said something like, 'if you criticize a thing, the result will be that YOU are criticized, not the critique.' He said it better, but I don't remember it exactly. But, he's the one who introduced me to SonsOfSamHorn, where the discussion is at such a high level that all that matters is the actual argument. [/QUOTE]

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