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Message: [QUOTE="Zelda Zonk, post: 1981923, member: 966"] Are you really not understanding the words? Or do you just need to move the goalposts to fit your agenda? Here's what i said, as simply as i can put it. • We've discussed, [I][B]since 1985[/B][/I], that we don't believe JB is among the 'top 5' coaches. A lot of coaches have coached since 1985. Some have retired, some have had brief, non-lasting successes. At any given moment, whenever the discussion has taken place, in general, we didn't have JB in the top 5 of coaches who were then working. Not sure what your beef is with that. It's not as if i said he's #20 in my book. I could have had him at #6, but you went rabid just because i/we say he's not 'elite' and then acknowledge that everyone has a different definition of 'elite.' Top "5" is an entirely arbitrary number. Top "6" is no less valid, but somehow that angers you. • The discussion was [B][I]not[/I][/B] about who was hirable by SU or available to coach SU. Somehow, you want to take a bunch of statements which reflect a bunch of things and then condense them to one simplistic (inaccurate) statement, and then add an additional set of conditions... • The dialog tends to be about, 'if not top 5,' then where? And the answers have always been 'in the top 20,' and then there are lots of situational/hypothetical talks you probably can't entertain. Like, what if (a) Shaka Smart had the Dome for 40 years. What if JB coached at VCU. For some coaches who had brief successes, what if they had JB's job — were their brief successes a matter of situation or actual talent/acumen? So, yeah, i'm speaking for, say, 6 different people, [B]over 30 years of time[/B], and the assessment of JB, if i simplified it for you, is probably somewhere from 6 to let's say 12. I don't remember any real arguments for him being much lower than that. If that's somehow damaging to you, i don't know what to say. Nothing much can be said, since you don't seem to be able to see/acknowledge/admit that JB isn't infallible. Reminds me of the argument i had with a kid in high school who insisted that every single professional baseball player was faster than me. [I]Because they were professional athletes[/I]. JB is a "hall of fame coach." Therefore, he's a genius. He's not a genius. He's only [I]a man[/I]. • We talk about such things like a) 'only' one NC; but b) three finals appearances. And, personally, i count a finals appearance as pretty much equal to a championship win. So, you see, i kinda give JB credit for that. Hope that pleases you. Then we discuss that the 96 finals appearance was down to two incredibly 'lucky' plays, and we don't credit JB for those plays. So, there's a conflict i hope you can reconcile. I don't have much confidence in that, though. There are a LOT of conflicts and contradictions and factoring discussed. And what we come up with is that there are no concrete answers. It's entirely subjective, and that only morons insist that it isn't. Like insisting we deserved to make the tournament last year. There are arguments on both sides, and if you're only on the SU side of that argument because you have a connection to SU, that doesn't mean you're correct. Not recognizing the bias in an argument isn't a bragworthy characteristic. [/QUOTE]

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