tommy bowden talking about Tulane | Syracusefan.com

tommy bowden talking about Tulane

Millhouse

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
29,726
Like
35,575
tulane, 1998, 11-0, rich rodriguez offensive coordinator

http://208.109.236.106/c/DigitalBooks/BookPreviews/9781606792629.pdf

"When I went to Tulane to be the head coach, we played in the Superdome. We did not have a lot of good players. We knew we had astroturf and we knew we would have a fast track for our games. We wanted to be able to win some games and win with big scores. We favored high scoring games over the close, defensive games."

can we please put the no huddle shotgun spread needs 5* stuff to bed? it ignores all the history of the offense and who used it

look at urban meyer, rich rodriguez, gus mahlzahn, mike leach, art briles, chip kelly and where they actually coached

naia, tulsa, valdosta, high school, new hampshire, bowling green, utah
 
Few things get me more riled up than seeing a shotgun formation on 3rd and 1.

One of them being playing for a hail mary with 2 timeouts at midfield.
 
Few things get me more riled up than seeing a shotgun formation on 3rd and 1.

One of them being playing for a hail mary with 2 timeouts at midfield.
why? you have two downs left to convert, you can still run out of it, it's so easy to convert 4th and 1 that you have a free play there
 
tulane, 1998, 11-0, rich rodriguez offensive coordinator

http://208.109.236.106/c/DigitalBooks/BookPreviews/9781606792629.pdf

"When I went to Tulane to be the head coach, we played in the Superdome. We did not have a lot of good players. We knew we had astroturf and we knew we would have a fast track for our games. We wanted to be able to win some games and win with big scores. We favored high scoring games over the close, defensive games."

Impressive.

Here's Tulane's 1998 schedule...

Cincinnati (2-9)
SMU (5-7)
Navy (3-8)
Southern Miss (7-5)
Louisville (7-5)
Rutgers (5-6)
La-Lafayette (2-9)
Memphis (2-9)
Army (3-8)
Houston (3-8)
Louisiana Tech (6-6)
 
Millhouse said:
tulane, 1998, 11-0, rich rodriguez offensive coordinator http://208.109.236.106/c/DigitalBooks/BookPreviews/9781606792629.pdf "When I went to Tulane to be the head coach, we played in the Superdome. We did not have a lot of good players. We knew we had astroturf and we knew we would have a fast track for our games. We wanted to be able to win some games and win with big scores. We favored high scoring games over the close, defensive games." can we please put the no huddle shotgun spread needs 5* stuff to bed? it ignores all the history of the offense and who used it look at urban meyer, rich rodriguez, gus mahlzahn, mike leach, art briles, chip kelly and where they actually coached naia, tulsa, valdosta, high school, new hampshire, bowling green, utah

People are frustrated, so it's Talent. Always the Talent. But talent helps all schemes. Cough, Mike Williams, cough.

But the flaw in your argument isn't that the spread can take average talent and make more with less - but that it's the only offense to do this.

As Crusty said in another post - Chip Kelly and Eagles run a ton of 12 personnel fast and with a crapton of points.
 
Impressive.

Here's Tulane's 1998 schedule...

Cincinnati (2-9)
SMU (5-7)
Navy (3-8)
Southern Miss (7-5)
Louisville (7-5)
Rutgers (5-6)
La-Lafayette (2-9)
Memphis (2-9)
Army (3-8)
Houston (3-8)
Louisiana Tech (6-6)
aye yi yi

backwater schools aren't in the SEC, yes, I know
 
Impressive.

Here's Tulane's 1998 schedule...

Cincinnati (2-9)
SMU (5-7)
Navy (3-8)
Southern Miss (7-5)
Louisville (7-5)
Rutgers (5-6)
La-Lafayette (2-9)
Memphis (2-9)
Army (3-8)
Houston (3-8)
Louisiana Tech (6-6)

they still won them all with equal and lesser talent no ? I think we should schedule 4 of those teams for our non conference slate.
 
they still won them all with equal and lesser talent no ? I think we should schedule 4 of those teams for our non conference slate.
And go full house with 2TE. ;)
 
People are frustrated, so it's Talent. Always the Talent. But talent helps all schemes. Cough, Mike Williams, cough.

But the flaw in your argument isn't that the spread can take average talent and make more with less - but that it's the only offense to do this.

As Crusty said in another post - Chip Kelly and Eagles run a ton of 12 personnel fast and with a crapton of points.
nfl tight ends are giant WR.

glorious stanford had luck throwing to fleener and ertz. yet people think we can replicate that easier than tulsa or houston

good luck basing the offense around 6'6 250 lb 4.5 running TE
 
GoHamSU said:
Few things get me more riled up than seeing a shotgun formation on 3rd and 1. One of them being playing for a hail mary with 2 timeouts at midfield.

It's funny because I get fired up with the "bring in every fat guy you possibly can find and bring all 11 of them (and their defenders) within a foot of the ball" on a 4th and 1 formation. Particularly since it seems our conversion rate on those attempts are about 5%.

I'm agnostic about under center or shotgun, but I really wish some coach would realize that 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 is just another play. Spread them out with WRs split and give yourself options. Quick hit out to a receiver or more space inside for the back to get your one yard without every defender there.
 
It's funny because I get fired up with the "bring in every fat guy you possibly can find and bring all 11 of them (and their defenders) within a foot of the ball" on a 4th and 1 formation. Particularly since it seems our conversion rate on those attempts are about 5%.

I'm agnostic about under center or shotgun, but I really wish some coach would realize that 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 is just another play. Spread them out with WRs split and give yourself options. Quick hit out to a receiver or more space inside for the back to get your one yard without every defender there.
that great mobile QB tom brady picks up every 4th down by spreading the field out and falling forward.

teams will give you that yard if they're scared you're willing to actually take a shot
 
they still won them all with equal and lesser talent no ? I think we should schedule 4 of those teams for our non conference slate.

Give me Army and Navy any day.
 
It's funny because I get fired up with the "bring in every fat guy you possibly can find and bring all 11 of them (and their defenders) within a foot of the ball" on a 4th and 1 formation. Particularly since it seems our conversion rate on those attempts are about 5%.

I'm agnostic about under center or shotgun, but I really wish some coach would realize that 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 is just another play. Spread them out with WRs split and give yourself options. Quick hit out to a receiver or more space inside for the back to get your one yard without every defender there.

I agree. I think goalline formations are the dumbest formation in football.
 
Give me Army and Navy any day.

That's asking for trouble. I want no part of Army or Navy on a semi-annual basis, nor should anyone associated with the football program that wants to win.
 
Millhouse said:
nfl tight ends are giant WR. glorious stanford had luck throwing to fleener and ertz. yet people think we can replicate that easier than tulsa or houston good luck basing the offense around 6'6 250 lb 4.5 running TE

Makes no sense. Everything is relative - are not NFL defenders bigger and faster as well? And don't we have big tweener types already?
 
Makes no sense. Everything is relative - are not NFL defenders bigger and faster as well? And don't we have big tweener types already?
it's not that relative. just watch gronk against a very good buffalo defense.

even in the NFL, big fast TE are impossible to deal with. they're rare as hell though.
 
tulane, 1998, 11-0, rich rodriguez offensive coordinator

http://208.109.236.106/c/DigitalBooks/BookPreviews/9781606792629.pdf

"When I went to Tulane to be the head coach, we played in the Superdome. We did not have a lot of good players. We knew we had astroturf and we knew we would have a fast track for our games. We wanted to be able to win some games and win with big scores. We favored high scoring games over the close, defensive games."

can we please put the no huddle shotgun spread needs 5* stuff to bed? it ignores all the history of the offense and who used it

look at urban meyer, rich rodriguez, gus mahlzahn, mike leach, art briles, chip kelly and where they actually coached

naia, tulsa, valdosta, high school, new hampshire, bowling green, utah

Don't you think the "spread" advantage has been arbitraged away? A lot of the powers are using it now. Just because a team runs a spread does not necessarily correlate to a program's success. McDonald tired it here and it was mediocre on it's best day.

Do you happen to know the base offense for the bottom 25 offenses in th NCAA right now? I bet a chunk of those run some version of no huddle spread. It's pretty doubtful the run the flexbone.
 
Don't you think the "spread" advantage has been arbitraged away? A lot of the powers are using it now. Just because a team runs a spread does not necessarily correlate to a program's success. McDonald tired it here and it was mediocre on it's best day.

Do you happen to know the base offense for the bottom 25 offenses in th NCAA right now? I bet a chunk of those run some version of no huddle spread. It's pretty doubtful the run the flexbone.
thankfully, the northeast is still filled with meatheads. it's been 15 years at least since i started bleating about this, believe me i know it's been a while.

mcdonald is a dumbass, that's all that got proved. if anything, that the team could still move the ball with a dope who can't call plays might make my point for me

and even if everyone in the stupid northeast saw the light, we still have the roof

i have no idea what your definition of arbitrage is. i think it might be off.
 
Millhouse said:
it's not that relative. just watch gronk against a very good buffalo defense. even in the NFL, big fast TE are impossible to deal with. they're rare as hell though.

I think Oregon ran Chip's O with 12 personnel and smaller, athletic TE's, no? They ran spread elements too - but I think if your system is sound built on putting the defense at a disadvantage, yards and points will come. Hackett did that with Lemon. Scheme your guys into spots where the defense is at such a disadvantage it becomes very difficult to stop. Works outside of spread principles too.

It's not either or ... Spread or Classic Big Ten Meathead Offense. There's a lot of room in between.
 
I think Oregon ran Chip's O with 12 personnel and smaller, athletic TE's, no? They ran spread elements too - but I think if your system is sound built on putting the defense at a disadvantage, yards and points will come. Hackett did that with Lemon. Scheme your guys into spots where the defense is at such a disadvantage it becomes very difficult to stop. Works outside of spread principles too.

It's not either or ... Spread or Classic Big Ten Meathead Offense. There's a lot of room in between.
he had NFL TE too

if we can get really fast WR in TE bodies, great. i don't want to presume that or make it a key part of the offensive philosophy going forward. i think it's a bad bet in recruiting

there are more fast smurfs than fast giants.
 
he had NFL TE too

if we can get really fast WR in TE bodies, great. i don't want to presume that or make it a key part of the offensive philosophy going forward. i think it's a bad bet in recruiting

there are more fast smurfs than fast giants.

We'd probably need to see what we have in Custis, Enoicy. Even Ben Lewis could probably fit. He looks more TE than WR to me. Biggest key to all of it is how the staff can develop players. If they can't, it's not going to matter anyway.

I'm not all that optimistic, especially now, but maybe next August I'll be back to drinking the blue and grey kool aid. At least the spring QB battle should be interesting. Nothing good may come of it, but just seeing how they pick from those 4.
 
We'd probably need to see what we have in Custis, Enoicy. Even Ben Lewis could probably fit. He looks more TE than WR to me. Biggest key to all of it is how the staff can develop players. If they can't, it's not going to matter anyway.

I'm not all that optimistic, especially now, but maybe next August I'll be back to drinking the blue and grey kool aid. At least the spring QB battle should be interesting. Nothing good may come of it, but just seeing how they pick from those 4.


I just hope they have a plan. Shafer's mid-season move really has me doubting it. Feels like we are just winging it offensively. I just want to see them pick an offense and go with it. That's why he better be 110% sure about Lester, or we will be reliving this mess once again next year. I'm just worried we recruited offensively for 2 different offenses.
 
Does anyone here remember the freeze option?! WTH. We have the perfect QB to run it in AJ. Jeesum Christmas, going to a pro offense and not being able to recruit a pro offense QB is crazy. We won a TON of games with the freeze option. Bring it back. Please
 
OburgOrange said:
Does anyone here remember the freeze option?! WTH. We have the perfect QB to run it in AJ. Jeesum Christmas, going to a pro offense and not being able to recruit a pro offense QB is crazy. We won a TON of games with the freeze option. Bring it back. Please

I don't know a ton about it - but the zone read is like freeze options grandchild in a lot of ways. It's still there, just not in it's 1980-90's glory.

I'd bet there's a reason for that.
 
thankfully, the northeast is still filled with meatheads. it's been 15 years at least since i started bleating about this, believe me i know it's been a while.

mcdonald is a dumbass, that's all that got proved. if anything, that the team could still move the ball with a dope who can't call plays might make my point for me

and even if everyone in the stupid northeast saw the light, we still have the roof

i have no idea what your definition of arbitrage is. i think it might be off.

My point is this Milly, it takes a lot more than going 4 or 5 wide to make an offense successful.
thankfully, the northeast is still filled with meatheads. it's been 15 years at least since i started bleating about this, believe me i know it's been a while.

mcdonald is a dumbass, that's all that got proved. if anything, that the team could still move the ball with a dope who can't call plays might make my point for me

and even if everyone in the stupid northeast saw the light, we still have the roof

i have no idea what your definition of arbitrage is. i think it might be off.


Sorry for tossing out the "arbitrage" word. Was in work mode. Some would think of it as simultaneous buying and selling of a stock, etc to take advantage of price discrepancies (ADR vs ordinary pricing for example). We toss it around at work to reference a lot of marketplace inefficiencies that have been "arbitraged" away or really no longer exist.

Unfortunately for Syracuse football, I think the road back to the top 25 is much harder than it was 25-30 years ago. Look at our track record with African-American qb's in the 80's and 90's. Now everyone recruits those players.

Tulane and RRod was 17 years ago. Yes they had a Dome, and at the time, very few schools, if any, were running a zone read offense out of a spread. Now, I would wager 90% of college offenses have a package with the play as the staple.

We jokingly discuss northeastern meatheads, but I'm not sure than notion exists any longer. I would assume you are referring to PSU, Pitt, Rutgers, and BC. Of those schools, can you truly define their offensive systems. BC runs a lot of their stuff out of the gun with Murphy at QB. Even Rutgers runs a lot of single back sets. I've been to a few Pitt games and the run a ton of spread zone read stuff with Votyk. Don't assume that they are running 22 base sets because Conner's running numbers are high.

Toss in the fact that almost every team in the ACC runs some version of the spread. The northeast meathead system doesn't really apply. Clemson, spread. FSU, spread. NCSt, hurry up spread. Duke, spread. Villanova, you guessed it, spread. I think you get the picture.

With regards to northeastern recruiting, feasting off those recruits has been arbitraged away as well. Recruiting has gone from regional to national. The big powers can now cherry pick players from all over the country. In 1990, FSU had 2 players from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. Today, they have 11. The access didn't exist then - there was no YouTube, Hudl, etc to post your video on back then. Now, every school in the country can see your highlights if they want to.

I look at the bottom offensive schools in the NCAA, and I can't really find a "system" that is prevalent there. SMU is crap this year, and they still run the Jones/Mumme air raid. Heck, last year with both Jones and Mumme on staff they were bottom half (66th). Meanwhile, meathead Ga Tech has been 44th and 11th.

I think we can all agree that Chip Kelly is a great offensive mind, yet even before his arrival at Oregon the offense was one of the best (12 and 19 the 2 years before). Why? Because the school had talent and solid coaching.

I'm not so sure scheme maters as much as coaching and talent level. I think a good coach can get results, look at Marrone's offensive improvement here. Or Harbaugh's at Stanford. They went from 118 pre Harbaugh to 107, 81, 18, 14. Was it Harbaugh? Was it Andrew Luck? Was Harbaugh responsible for getting Luck and putting him in a position to succeed? Probably.

We need solid coaching and better talent first, a system second. Would it be nice to chuck it all over the dome and put up 500 a game? Sure would. I bet it would be fun to watch. Does it correlate to wins, not so sure. Leach is 3-7 with a fun offense this year. Holgerson was on the hot seat, found himself a transfer QB, transfer RB, and a stud Juco WR and suddenly he's back in the circle of trust.

I think it's irresponsible to look at the best offenses and say, look, they run a spread, we should too! There are sh!tty offenses that run spreads. We are one of them.

Bonus points for doing this after about 4 manhattan's at Good Luck in your neck of the woods!
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

    • Like
Orangeyes Daily Articles for Wednesday for Football
Replies
6
Views
1K

Forum statistics

Threads
170,352
Messages
4,886,418
Members
5,995
Latest member
meierscreek

Online statistics

Members online
330
Guests online
1,827
Total visitors
2,157


...
Top Bottom