Tweaking the program | Syracusefan.com

Tweaking the program

billsin01

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So I posted in one of my rambling early-season threads about the importance of continuity and mentioned, I believe, that I'd like to see JB and co. take more of an interest in helping to chart a course for players we recruit. If it costs us some recruits in terms of having frank discussions, I'm OK with that, b/c I think it would also help land some recruits.

Anyway, point is, this section of that Nova article on the worldwide leader early in the week that Pfister1 quoted in his post was really interesting to me:

But once the Wildcats had success on a national scale, the expectations grew.

"I got sloppy," Wright said. "After we went to the Final Four, it was easy to get guys. So rather than sit down with them and explain, 'Look, I know you want to come, but this is what we do,' I said, 'All right, good, he's a great player? All right, good.'

"And then they got here, we start talking about it and they're like, 'Whoa, no one told me about that.' And they were right. We didn't explain to them what this was. Some of them, when they got here, they got it. Some of them were like, 'Wait, that's not what I signed up for.'"
...
"We had hit rock bottom after that season," he said. "What are we doing? We're not helping these kids. We're not true to our culture. This is on me. This is a decision I made. This is the culture I've created since the Final Four. These are the guys I brought in. I've got to change."

...
When Wright and his staff recruit a high school player, they make sure they lay out what will be asked of the player during his time at Villanova. The idea of family is paramount, and they point to players in the past who made it to the NBA while also being part of a winning culture for three or four years. And not only do they expect total buy-in from the recruit, they also make sure everyone around the recruit is on board, from the parents to the high school coach to the AAU coach.

"He's done a really good job of saying, 'What is my expectation for me and for Villanova and for my staff?' said Jason Donnelly, a former assistant coach under Wright who is now the executive director of athletic development at Villanova. "And my expectation is a certain kind of kid and a certain kind of culture and a certain kind of competitiveness -- and I'm not giving up on that."


So my question is simple: Would JB consider creating a position or delegating a responsibility to a staff member who was almost solely responsible for communicating what the program wanted from recruits/players and, conversely, taking a pulse of how those players feel and acting as something of a players' advocate or at least a liaison between the players and the staff?

I see the benefits being two-fold: One, both the player/recruit and the staff have at least a generally accepted understanding of what each needs to accomplish (on the court/off the court, in-season/out of season). Two, it hopefully reduces some of the conflicts like those with Moyer or Geno Thorpe or whatever by addressing those issues proactively instead of letting everything come to a head and then dealing with the mess.

Now, I'm not naive enough to think this eliminates any drama and I think you have to get a little lucky to avoid a situation where a guy just blows up for whatever reason (i.e. Malachi having a decent year but then the big game on a national stage vs. UVA), but it may help manage the roster better if you have more of an idea of where these kids stand, for better or for worse.

Anyway, thought it was interesting to see that Nova is actually employing this strategy and think it's an interesting tweak as opposed to many of the debates here that seem to be either all is well or JB needs to be put out to pasture.
 
I don't think it would have the same impact. We've had players come that weren't expected to be quick exiters that exceeded expectations. The problem is that we recruit athletic under the radar forwards with lots of potential and that exactly who the NBA likes to draft. I fully believe Tyler Lydon thought he'd be here 3 or 4 years. I don't think Jerami Grant expected himself to be a two year and done guy. They saw opportunity and took it. Explaining expectations wouldn't have changed that. Until we recruit talented players with a fatal NBA flaw, we can expect more of the same. That's a narrow target to shoot for.
 
So I posted in one of my rambling early-season threads about the importance of continuity and mentioned, I believe, that I'd like to see JB and co. take more of an interest in helping to chart a course for players we recruit. If it costs us some recruits in terms of having frank discussions, I'm OK with that, b/c I think it would also help land some recruits.

Anyway, point is, this section of that Nova article on the worldwide leader early in the week that Pfister1 quoted in his post was really interesting to me:

But once the Wildcats had success on a national scale, the expectations grew.

"I got sloppy," Wright said. "After we went to the Final Four, it was easy to get guys. So rather than sit down with them and explain, 'Look, I know you want to come, but this is what we do,' I said, 'All right, good, he's a great player? All right, good.'

"And then they got here, we start talking about it and they're like, 'Whoa, no one told me about that.' And they were right. We didn't explain to them what this was. Some of them, when they got here, they got it. Some of them were like, 'Wait, that's not what I signed up for.'"
...
"We had hit rock bottom after that season," he said. "What are we doing? We're not helping these kids. We're not true to our culture. This is on me. This is a decision I made. This is the culture I've created since the Final Four. These are the guys I brought in. I've got to change."

...
When Wright and his staff recruit a high school player, they make sure they lay out what will be asked of the player during his time at Villanova. The idea of family is paramount, and they point to players in the past who made it to the NBA while also being part of a winning culture for three or four years. And not only do they expect total buy-in from the recruit, they also make sure everyone around the recruit is on board, from the parents to the high school coach to the AAU coach.

"He's done a really good job of saying, 'What is my expectation for me and for Villanova and for my staff?' said Jason Donnelly, a former assistant coach under Wright who is now the executive director of athletic development at Villanova. "And my expectation is a certain kind of kid and a certain kind of culture and a certain kind of competitiveness -- and I'm not giving up on that."


So my question is simple: Would JB consider creating a position or delegating a responsibility to a staff member who was almost solely responsible for communicating what the program wanted from recruits/players and, conversely, taking a pulse of how those players feel and acting as something of a players' advocate or at least a liaison between the players and the staff?

I see the benefits being two-fold: One, both the player/recruit and the staff have at least a generally accepted understanding of what each needs to accomplish (on the court/off the court, in-season/out of season). Two, it hopefully reduces some of the conflicts like those with Moyer or Geno Thorpe or whatever by addressing those issues proactively instead of letting everything come to a head and then dealing with the mess.

Now, I'm not naive enough to think this eliminates any drama and I think you have to get a little lucky to avoid a situation where a guy just blows up for whatever reason (i.e. Malachi having a decent year but then the big game on a national stage vs. UVA), but it may help manage the roster better if you have more of an idea of where these kids stand, for better or for worse.

Anyway, thought it was interesting to see that Nova is actually employing this strategy and think it's an interesting tweak as opposed to many of the debates here that seem to be either all is well or JB needs to be put out to pasture.
Wright left out how he gets the agents, handlers, player's posse on board.
 
Why would we need a special guy to tell recruits what we're looking to do as a program and how that recruit would fit in? That seems like a relatively easy thing for any coach to do and I'd assume it's something most good coaches/programs do with recruits. I don't think Wright is breaking new ground here, and I'd be surprised if our coaching staff doesn't do something similar.
 
So my question is simple: Would JB consider creating a position or delegating a responsibility to a staff member who was almost solely responsible for communicating what the program wanted from recruits/players and, conversely, taking a pulse of how those players feel and acting as something of a players' advocate or at least a liaison between the players and the staff?

We had a guy who did exactly this during recruiting for nearly 20 years in Hopkins. He filled the other role just as well - players advocate/liaison between player/staff.

I'm 99.9% sure that Red or someone else on the staff is doing the exact same thing that Mike did when he was our lead recruiter. I'm sure Boeheim taught it all to Mike anyway. We do have a very distinct culture at SU.
 
Why would we need a special guy to tell recruits what we're looking to do as a program and how that recruit would fit in? That seems like a relatively easy thing for any coach to do and I'd assume it's something most good coaches/programs do with recruits. I don't think Wright is breaking new ground here, and I'd be surprised if our coaching staff doesn't do something similar.

We had a guy who did exactly this during recruiting for nearly 20 years in Hopkins. He filled the other role just as well - players advocate/liaison between player/staff.

I'm 99.9% sure that Red or someone else on the staff is doing the exact same thing that Mike did when he was our lead recruiter. I'm sure Boeheim taught it all to Mike anyway. We do have a very distinct culture at SU.

I don't think I articulated it well. I wasn't insinuating that this never happened or that SU doesn't have a distinct culture or a 'family' (although I hate when programs use this word b/c it's more of a mafia family than a traditional family in many ways, but whatever) vibe and that they don't have plans for the players, etc. And I realize this isn't anything new for us either.

What I was trying to say was that maybe it's time for this to be a dedicated position for a guy looking to break into coaching or whatnot? We all know the player movement is unprecedented and the eagerness to get somewhere and play for pay is foremost on these kids' minds. We also have the fifth-year transfer market that we've now dipped into twice. It just makes for a much more fluid situation in total.

My only point is maybe ... just maybe as a hypothetical ... instead of losing McCullough after 16 games (8 of which were clunkers) and an injury, we get him back if we're constantly having that conversation and engaged with him. Maybe Geno doesn't get to the point of flipping out and quitting if we're actively engaging with him and discussing why his minutes are what they are and what the plan is moving forward. Maybe the Moyer situation is handled better than the relatively embarrassing way it eventually leaks to the media.

So I don't know if it's worthwhile or not but having a guy who's primary job is to meet with the staff and discuss how players are feeling, what the plan/progress on that plan is, health issues, etc. as well as help in terms trying to get an idea of where recruits fit in, what the roster might look like going forward ... it seems like it could be worth it to me. Especially since, as his critics are quick to say, JB isn't getting any younger.
 
I don't think I articulated it well. I wasn't insinuating that this never happened or that SU doesn't have a distinct culture or a 'family' (although I hate when programs use this word b/c it's more of a mafia family than a traditional family in many ways, but whatever) vibe and that they don't have plans for the players, etc. And I realize this isn't anything new for us either.

What I was trying to say was that maybe it's time for this to be a dedicated position for a guy looking to break into coaching or whatnot? We all know the player movement is unprecedented and the eagerness to get somewhere and play for pay is foremost on these kids' minds. We also have the fifth-year transfer market that we've now dipped into twice. It just makes for a much more fluid situation in total.

My only point is maybe ... just maybe as a hypothetical ... instead of losing McCullough after 16 games (8 of which were clunkers) and an injury, we get him back if we're constantly having that conversation and engaged with him. Maybe Geno doesn't get to the point of flipping out and quitting if we're actively engaging with him and discussing why his minutes are what they are and what the plan is moving forward. Maybe the Moyer situation is handled better than the relatively embarrassing way it eventually leaks to the media.

So I don't know if it's worthwhile or not but having a guy who's primary job is to meet with the staff and discuss how players are feeling, what the plan/progress on that plan is, health issues, etc. as well as help in terms trying to get an idea of where recruits fit in, what the roster might look like going forward ... it seems like it could be worth it to me. Especially since, as his critics are quick to say, JB isn't getting any younger.


I would look at Jake's post the NCAA scandal thread when it comes to guys like McCullough - who under your idea (which is interesting) would then never come here to begin with.
 
I would look at Jake's post the NCAA scandal thread when it comes to guys like McCullough - who under your idea (which is interesting) would then never come here to begin with.

I looked at that thread and I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to but I think the point of the Nova piece and my point here is maybe losing McCullough isn't that bad. Or at least isn't that bad long-term if he is solely dead set on auditioning for the NBA and leaving after a year. Don't get me wrong -- don't blame the kid at all and there are obviously going to be one or two-and-done players. I don't begrudge anyone that opportunity. Just saying maybe we need a more specific and proactive approach to working with these kids on their current and future plans.
 
I looked at that thread and I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to but I think the point of the Nova piece and my point here is maybe losing McCullough isn't that bad. Or at least isn't that bad long-term if he is solely dead set on auditioning for the NBA and leaving after a year. Don't get me wrong -- don't blame the kid at all and there are obviously going to be one or two-and-done players. I don't begrudge anyone that opportunity. Just saying maybe we need a more specific and proactive approach to working with these kids on their current and future plans.


My point is that unlike Villanova not sure we run certain kids through a good enough filter. CMAC had one foot out the door and couldn't finish against mid-majors, TT was a known problem and we recruited anyway, etc.
 
Maybe Geno doesn't get to the point of flipping out and quitting if we're actively engaging with him and discussing why his minutes are what they are and what the plan is moving forward. Maybe the Moyer situation is handled better than the relatively embarrassing way it eventually leaks to the media.

100% this sort of thing was Hopkins' job while he was here. I would imagine Autry or Griffin has it now. Note that I'm not saying anything would be different if Mike was still here, just pointing out that he played the role of 'good cop' in these situations. I know that he talked talked Griffin out of transferring and Paul Harris out of quitting the team, amongst many other things.

I will say that the program needs a strong 'good cop' on the staff to offset Boeheim's occasional tough love 'bad cop' routine.
 
100% this sort of thing was Hopkins' job while he was here. I would imagine Autry or Griffin has it now. Note that I'm not saying anything would be different if Mike was still here, just pointing out that he played the role of 'good cop' in these situations. I know that he talked talked Griffin out of transferring and Paul Harris out of quitting the team, amongst many other things.

I will say that the program needs a strong 'good cop' on the staff to offset Boeheim's occasional tough love 'bad cop' routine.

Absolutely. I’m not saying we don’t do this sort of thing. I’m also not saying I really have any clue if this type of role is worthwhile or necessary. Just more wondering if it could help to a certain degree with increasing the year-to-year continuity of the roster. Could a young kid breaking into coaching working as essentially a marriage counselor help us proactively either avoid certain situations or at least be better prepared for them before they turn into major issues.

Sounds like you don’t see this as something that requires that kind of commitment, which I understand.
 
My point is that unlike Villanova not sure we run certain kids through a good enough filter. CMAC had one foot out the door and couldn't finish against mid-majors, TT was a known problem and we recruited anyway, etc.

Agreed. The McCullough one is particularly interesting b/c it seems clear he viewed himself as a one-and-done guy. Maybe you still take him but maybe you look at a lower rated kid you felt would give you 3-4 years.

Obviously a case-by-case basis but we just seem to have struggled so much in that area.
 

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