UMass The New UConn?

[TexanMark]

H/T Rutgirls board
http://www.presnapread.com/umass-wants-to-be-new-englands-best/

UMass wants to play Big Boy FB...their goal is to get into the Big East after the MAC. They are playing games two hours away at Foxboro. (I wonder if Fenway is big enough to host a FB game?)They do have a lot of alumni around Boston (similar to SU and NYC). I'm not a huge fan of this move as it just adds another 1A mouth to feed. You know UMass will be recruiting heavily in NY.

Bottomline: SU and BC being in the ACC will have something over UMass...I think UConn gets hurt the most by this.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Fenway wouldn't be available until after the All Star Break November.

 

[TexanMark]

Fenway wouldn't be available until after the All Star Break very early October after they are eliminated from playoff contention.

Fixed it for you.

BTW, I think they could fit a FB field in there.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

They'll be out of the playoff hunt in July. At least they held Texas under 20 yesterday.

Fenway seats 37,000. I suppose it would be OK for UMass.

 

[RF2044]

How fitting, because Uconn is about to become the new UMass in basketball.

 

[BlazeOrange]

I'm not a huge fan of this move as it just adds another 1A mouth to feed. You know UMass will be recruiting heavily in NY.

Typically, players that choose UMass over SU will be SU's B-listers who are easily replaced.

The offset is a potential regional increase in interest in football - college and in general. I'd be curious to see if UB's move to D-1 spurred improvement in the quality of high school football in WNY. I don't think much of an impact has shown in the number of players playing. Football has always been a popular HS sport choice out there, so you won't see much change in the talent pool. Which means the number of D-1 players from the area (discounting those who stayed local at UB who wouldn't have gone D-1 otherwise) wouldn't change much either. However, I do think a greater emphasis has been put on facilities and coaching is improving (might be wrong since many teams have had the same coaches forever). This could make a nice little project if you could define some measurables to evaluate.

 

[billsin01]

I'm not a huge fan of this move as it just adds another 1A mouth to feed. You know UMass will be recruiting heavily in NY.

Bottomline: SU and BC being in the ACC will have something over UMass...I think UConn gets hurt the most by this.

Agree with all this. I think the under-reported/discussed aspect of our decade-long abyss is the subtle but damaging impact of a vastly improved RU, a very solid UConn program and a revitalized BC. I don't think SU should be afraid of competition, but if you buy the theory that the NE is not exactly a hotbed of football recruiting, more fish in a small, sparsely stocked pond is a bad thing.

 

[billsin01]

Typically, players that choose UMass over SU will be SU's B-listers who are easily replaced.

Interesting point in the second half of your post, but I have to disagree with the line above. I'd have to think this is exactly what most thought about UConn at the start. I still think SU can have a top 25 football program but each school that eats away at an already thin local talent pool is a threat, IMO.

 

[TexanMark]

Typically, players that choose UMass over SU will be SU's B-listers who are easily replaced.

This is the same thing we said about UConn in 2000...but they (UConn) still have had high draft choices and ALL BE players that we didn't get and some of those "B list kids" were not available to SU when we needed to offer them becuase UConn already got a verbal from them.

 

[dasher]

the pats played their home games at fenway for years in the 60's.

 

[Scooch]

Agree with all this. I think the under-reported/discussed aspect of our decade-long abyss is the subtle but damaging impact of a vastly improved RU, a very solid UConn program and a revitalized BC. I don't think SU should be afraid of competition, but if you buy the theory that the NE is not exactly a hotbed of football recruiting, more fish in a small, sparsely stocked pond is a bad thing.

This is true, and I'll up that ante.. I think an under-discussed reason why SU became good again in the 80s and 90s was the scarcity of competition on the recruiting trail. We always got beat by Penn State, but for a good number of years we were competing against a down Pitt program, an up-and-down BC program, and non-existent programs at Rutgers, UConn, and Temple. I think we benefited a ton from the bounce the opening of the Carrier Dome gave us at the same time that our biggest regional recruiting rivals went in the crapper.

We're in an infinitely more competitive space now... with lousy facilities to boot.

 

[Scooch]

UMass wants to play Big Boy FB...their goal is to get into the Big East after the MAC. They are playing games two hours away at Foxboro. (I wonder if Fenway is big enough to host a FB game?)They do have a lot of alumni around Boston (similar to SU and NYC). I'm not a huge fan of this move as it just adds another 1A mouth to feed. You know UMass will be recruiting heavily in NY.

FWIW, I suspect UMass's games at Gillette will draw flies. There's a decent amount of UMass alums throughout the state, but unless the team is winning against top-flight competition no one is going to care. I grew up in Mass, I remember that people didn't give a flying about the hoops program until they were in the Final 4. Winning against a MAC schedule might get them to average 25-30K.

But, I hate them being 1-A. Every kid they sign is someone we don't. Even if they poach 1-2 kids a year from SU that's enough to do damage given our perennial depth problems.

 

[TexanMark]

FWIW, I suspect UMass's games at Gillette will draw flies. There's a decent amount of UMass alums throughout the state, but unless the team is winning against top-flight competition no one is going to care. I grew up in Mass, I remember that people didn't give a flying about the hoops program until they were in the Final 4. Winning against a MAC schedule might get them to average 25-30K.

But, I hate them being 1-A. Every kid they sign is someone we don't. Even if they poach 1-2 kids a year from SU that's enough to do damage given our perennial depth problems.

Oh I agree...however if they make it to the BE (probably after Louisville bolts) they should draw 15-20k which will put them in good stead with Temple. Actually I think they need a 25-30k seat stadium in Amherst (think Akron) and play 1 home game at Fenway in November.

 

[Scooch]

Oh I agree...however if they make it to the BE (probably after Louisville bolts) they should draw 15-20k which will put them in good stead with Temple. Actually I think they need a 25-30k seat stadium in Amherst (think Akron) and play 1 home game at Fenway in November.

Part of me can't ever picture them building something in Amherst. There's no population in western Mass. But then I never thought they'd move up to 1-A, so shows what I know.

My father had season tickets for the Pats in Fenway. He said it was a weird experience for football.

 

[TexanMark]

Part of me can't ever picture them building something in Amherst. There's no population in western Mass. But then I never thought they'd move up to 1-A, so shows what I know.

My father had season tickets for the Pats in Fenway. He said it was a weird experience for football.

LOL nice pic...kinda retro cool

BTW, UMass is upgrading their stadium to 25k...that is probably close to the minimum accepatable the BE would need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_McGuirk_Alumni_Stadium

 

[Orangemen]

Agree with all this. I think the under-reported/discussed aspect of our decade-long abyss is the subtle but damaging impact of a vastly improved RU, a very solid UConn program and a revitalized BC. I don't think SU should be afraid of competition, but if you buy the theory that the NE is not exactly a hotbed of football recruiting, more fish in a small, sparsely stocked pond is a bad thing.

I'd throw in USF, Central Florida, and to a lesser extent, FIU and Florida Atlantic too.

SU had a lot of success grabbing under recruited kids out of Florida. With legitimate options outside of the big 3 down there, I'm sure a number of guys who would have come to SU 15 years ago have stayed home.

 

[sutomcat]

Part of me can't ever picture them building something in Amherst. There's no population in western Mass. But then I never thought they'd move up to 1-A, so shows what I know.

My father had season tickets for the Pats in Fenway. He said it was a weird experience for football.

Syracuse played Boston University at Fenway at least twice, beating them 13-7 there in 1950 and 26-19 in 1951 despite 3 TDs from Harry Agganis.

 

[billsin01]

This is true, and I'll up that ante.. I think an under-discussed reason why SU became good again in the 80s and 90s was the scarcity of competition on the recruiting trail. We always got beat by Penn State, but for a good number of years we were competing against a down Pitt program, an up-and-down BC program, and non-existent programs at Rutgers, UConn, and Temple. I think we benefited a ton from the bounce the opening of the Carrier Dome gave us at the same time that our biggest regional recruiting rivals went in the crapper.

We're in an infinitely more competitive space now... with lousy facilities to boot.

Oh, I absolutely agree with this and got crushed for arguing this point many times. Success is always in a context so I'm not taking shots at P when I say that, while he was an excellent coach, he benefited from good fortune as well. He took over a program that was humming along and guided through a time when RU was poor (under graber) and poorer (Shea), Temple got kicked out of the conference they were so bad, UConn wasn't around, BC didn't go to a bowl for a 5 or 6 year span (mostly the atrocious dan henning era), West VA struggled toward the end of the Nehlan era, Maryland was doing nothing, and there was no Florida directionals to deal with.

GRob, as atrocious as he was, is on the other end of this dealing with RichRod and Petrino and some pretty solid RU teams, as well as a UConn program that got to a pretty impressive level under Edsall. Even Cincy coming out of nowhere under D'Antonio and then BK was trouble. Add facilities that were falling even farther behind and the subtle but legit impact of TOB and Jag's BC recruiting and it's not hard to figure out why we were struggling. This isn't absolving GRob by any stretch, merely pointing out that we would have needed a miracle worker to put us on the top of that Big East.

 

[TampaLaker]

Agree with all this. I think the under-reported/discussed aspect of our decade-long abyss is the subtle but damaging impact of a vastly improved RU, a very solid UConn program and a revitalized BC. I don't think SU should be afraid of competition, but if you buy the theory that the NE is not exactly a hotbed of football recruiting, more fish in a small, sparsely stocked pond is a bad thing.

Actually, more fish would be a good thing... more fisherman would be a bad thing...

 

[billsin01]

Actually, more fish would be a good thing... more fisherman would be a bad thing...

ha, excellent point.

 

[brandokc]

Mike Mele and Frank Black approve this message. However, Gordy Lockbaum detests it.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Oh, I absolutely agree with this and got crushed for arguing this point many times. Success is always in a context so I'm not taking shots at P when I say that, while he was an excellent coach, he benefited from good fortune as well. He took over a program that was humming along and guided through a time when RU was poor (under graber) and poorer (Shea), Temple got kicked out of the conference they were so bad, UConn wasn't around, BC didn't go to a bowl for a 5 or 6 year span (mostly the atrocious dan henning era), West VA struggled toward the end of the Nehlan era, Maryland was doing nothing, and there was no Florida directionals to deal with.

GRob, as atrocious as he was, is on the other end of this dealing with RichRod and Petrino and some pretty solid RU teams, as well as a UConn program that got to a pretty impressive level under Edsall. Even Cincy coming out of nowhere under D'Antonio and then BK was trouble. Add facilities that were falling even farther behind and the subtle but legit impact of TOB and Jag's BC recruiting and it's not hard to figure out why we were struggling. This isn't absolving GRob by any stretch, merely pointing out that we would have needed a miracle worker to put us on the top of that Big East.

love the dan henning era posts here on the board.

you do realize he was only there for 3 years, and took a TC leftover team to a bowl win over a ranked kstate team?? and won 4 & 5 his last 2 years?? then 2 years later TOB started them on their bowl run??

its too bad SU didnt have a Dan Henning era, the grobbycakes era got us 10 wins in 4 years.

we should be so lucky.

 

[Scooch]

love the dan henning era posts here on the board.

you do realize he was only there for 3 years, and took a TC leftover team to a bowl win over a ranked kstate team?? and won 4 & 5 his last 2 years?? then 2 years later TOB started them on their bowl run??

its too bad SU didnt have a Dan Henning era, the grobbycakes era got us 10 wins in 4 years.

we should be so lucky.

Well I think the point is that in '94-'97 when Henning was there BC's recruiting level went down some and they had a major scandal. That was the time when we landed a bunch of the kids who fueled our '95-'01 teams, so having Henning stumbling around Chestnut Hill for 3 years didn't hurt us, that's for sure.

 

[SmilinBob]

If the big east has any resemblance of business they should go after UMass hard. They can't just try to appease UConn because the second anyone asks conference wise to join they will be gone in an instant. Plus, it would possibly screw up BC as well and how good would that be for them especially now with BC struggling with their main $ sports.

 

[billsin01]

love the dan henning era posts here on the board.

you do realize he was only there for 3 years, and took a TC leftover team to a bowl win over a ranked kstate team?? and won 4 & 5 his last 2 years?? then 2 years later TOB started them on their bowl run??

its too bad SU didnt have a Dan Henning era, the grobbycakes era got us 10 wins in 4 years.

we should be so lucky.

So what is your point? That he should be considered better than GRob? OK, that's fine. And you suggest a TC leftover team is some sort of a handicap? TC left Henning with Hartsell at QB, a 1,000-yard rusher in teh backfield and one of the best TEs in the nation in Pete Mitchell as well as an heir apparent in Matt Hasselbeck, who went on to an OK NFL career. And TC had just put together a 9-3 season that included a blowout bowl victory and a massive upset over no. 1 ND.

The point is that BC had the huge gambling scandal that hurt that program significantly, turning a lackluster Henning tenure into a massive rebuilding project for TC who really didn't get them back to where they were under TC until '01.