UNC2 Updown

[SWC75]

The Upside

- Yes, it actually happened. After a year full of games against good teams where we played at their level for 25, 30 or 35 minutes, we finally played well for 40 minutes and beat the #7 team in the country, a team that had beaten us by 36 points exactly a month ago. If we can continue to play at or near this level, anything is possible. Having seen what can happen when they do can help.

- We jumped right on them, getting a three by Chris Bell and a couple by Maliq Brown to take a 14-7 lead. We expanded that to 10 points leads at 23-13, 28-18 and 30-20 with 8:03 left in the first half.

- But you knew the Tar Heels were going to get going, on a 19-6 run to take a 40-36 lead. They were really slicing our zone up. But we didn’t collapse, tying the game up at 42 at halftime. We then opened the second half with treys by Chris Bell and JJ Starling to take a 48-42 lead. We pushed that to 52-43.

- But playing UNC is like riding a bull. They are more powerful than you are so you’ve got to continue playing at a high level. They caught us at 58 with 10:02 left. Starling and Bell hit lay-ups to make it 62-58 and the game went back and forth but as Coach Autry said “we kept scoring”. Starling his a three pointer to give us a 76-69 lead with 2:47 to go. It was our last field goal and the Heels kept fouling our guys to get the ball back. It almost worked as we missed 6 of 16 free throws in that period but that was enough to pull out the 86-79 win.

- Matt Park looked at the refs staring at the screen for the umpteenth time with the crowd surrounding the court and said “They are planning their escape route”. There were many controversial calls that favored either team but of course SU fans through they went against us, although a couple of those did get overturned.

- Judah Mintz and JJ Starling had 45 ‘net points’ between them and RJ Davis and Corman Ryan had just 15. Maliq Brown had 23 while Armando Bacot had 19. So there!

- It’s kind of vexed me that we have so many good passers on this team yet the offense is geared for ISO ball. We also have some fine one-on-one players but I think we are at our best when we use both skills, as we did tonight. Some situations were better for ball movement, some for individual player moves

- We got out-rebounded but it was only 23-31 and we had three fewer turnovers. It was key that we shot 62.5%, (which is what teams had been shooting against us). It not only increased our point output, it reduced our rebound deficit. There just weren’t as many rebounds to get.

- Quadir Copeland didn’t put up big numbers but made some great defensive plays down the stretch, including two out-of-bounds plays where he bounced the ball off of defenders and the refs had to look at the monitor to see that he’d done it. There’s a lot of quick hands on this team.

- We’ve lost some players but none of them, (with the possible exception of Chance Westry), are major talents. The solid core of the team is intact. If they can keep going the whole game, we can beat anybody.


16-9 (7-7) with 6+ to go…

LET’S GO ORANGE!


Net Points

This year I’m going to make things a bit easier on myself and just list the net points in each game after the Upside. Once a month I’ll do a deeper dive into the numbers rather than doing a “Net Points, etc.” post after every game. ‘Net’ points are the positives (points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks) minus the negatives, (missed field goals and free throws, turnovers and fouls committed).

Judah Mintz game: 29NP in 40 minutes; season: 352NP in 836 minutes = 16.8NP/40m
Maliq Brown game: 23NP in 34 minutes; season: 360NP in 683 minutes = 21.1NP/40m
JJ Starling game: 16NP in 40 minutes; season: 245NP in 870 minutes = 11.3NP/40m
Quadir Copeland game: 8NP in 23 minutes; season: 235NP in 549 minutes = 17.1NP/40m
Chris Bell game: 7NP in 36 minutes; season: 163NP in 610 minutes = 10.7NP/40m
Justin Taylor game: 5NP in 21 minutes; season: 138NP in 585 minutes = 9.4NP/40m
Mounir Hima game: 0NP in 6 minutes; season: 8NP in 38 minutes = 8.4NP/40m

Did not play:
Peter Carey game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 61 minutes = 0.0NP/40m
Kyle Cuffe game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 27NP in 231 minutes = 4.7NP/40m

Hurt:
Chance Westry game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Out for the season:
Naheem McLeod game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 108NP in 202 minutes = 21.4NP/40m

Red Shirting:
William Patterson game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Thrown off team:
Benny Williams game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 99NP in 307 minutes = 12.9NP/40m




Brent Axe:



The Downside

- The credibility we gain from this win is fragile. If we go right back to erratic performances and disappointing losses, people will see this game as proof of North Carolina’s weakness, not our strength.

- Thank you to the refs for calling 11 fouls on us, 3 on Bell and no more than two on anyone else. We are a house of cards.

- Justin Taylor played 21 minutes and he played hard. When everyone around you is giving their all, you are going to do the same. Still he attempted one shot in that time. On the opening possession, he received a pass and was open for a 15 footer. He looked at it, then turned around and looked for someone to pass too. He’s our Chuck Knoblach.

 

[SoBristol]

Who are the “so many good passers on this team”? Copeland is typically good for a fancy assist or two. Who else? We play iso ball because the best talent of Starling and Mintz is driving and finishing or getting their own shots. Bell is a shooter - rarely makes plays for a teammate.

Need to give Brown credit for being the consistent outlet on in bound plays. He is a big reason why we beat the press so easily.

 

[SWC75]

Who are the “so many good passers on this team”? Copeland is typically good for a fancy assist or two. Who else? We play iso ball because the best talent of Starling and Mintz is driving and finishing or getting their own shots. Bell is a shooter - rarely makes plays for a teammate.

Need to give Brown credit for being the consistent outlet on in bound plays. He is a big reason why we beat the press so easily.

Mintz, Copeland, and Brown give us three superior passers on the court at the same time. Remember when people wanted Starling to be the point guard? Taylor isn't fancy but passing the ball is all he wants to do.

 

[MikeSU02]

The Upside

- Yes, it actually happened. After a year full of games against good teams where we played at their level for 25, 30 or 35 minutes, we finally played well for 40 minutes and beat the #7 team in the country, a team that had beaten us by 36 points exactly a month ago. If we can continue to play at or near this level, anything is possible. Having seen what can happen when they do can help.

- We jumped right on them, getting a three by Chris Bell and a couple by Maliq Brown to take a 14-7 lead. We expanded that to 10 points leads at 23-13, 28-18 and 30-20 with 8:03 left in the first half.

- But you knew the Tar Heels were going to get going, on a 19-6 run to take a 40-36 lead. They were really slicing our zone up. But we didn’t collapse, tying the game up at 42 at halftime. We then opened the second half with treys by Chris Bell and JJ Starling to take a 48-42 lead. We pushed that to 52-43.

- But playing UNC is like riding a bull. They are more powerful than you are so you’ve got to continue playing at a high level. They caught us at 58 with 10:02 left. Starling and Bell hit lay-ups to make it 62-58 and the game went back and forth but as Coach Autry said “we kept scoring”. Starling his a three pointer to give us a 76-69 lead with 2:47 to go. It was our last field goal and the Heels kept fouling our guys to get the ball back. It almost worked as we missed 6 of 16 free throws in that period but that was enough to pull out the 86-79 win.

- Matt Park looked at the refs staring at the screen for the umpteenth time with the crowd surrounding the court and said “They are planning their escape route”. There were many controversial calls that favored either team but of course SU fans through they went against us, although a couple of those did get overturned.

- Judah Mintz and JJ Starling had 45 ‘net points’ between them and RJ Davis and Corman Ryan had just 15. Maliq Brown had 23 while Armando Bacot had 19. So there!

- It’s kind of vexed me that we have so many good passers on this team yet the offense is geared for ISO ball. We also have some fine one-on-one players but I think we are at our best when we use both skills, as we did tonight. Some situations were better for ball movement, some for individual player moves

- We got out-rebounded but it was only 23-31 and we had three fewer turnovers. It was key that we shot 62.5%, (which is what teams had been shooting against us). It not only increased our point output, it reduced our rebound deficit. There just weren’t as many rebounds to get.

- Quadir Copeland didn’t put up big numbers but made some great defensive plays down the stretch, including two out-of-bounds plays where he bounced the ball off of defenders and the refs had to look at the monitor to see that he’d done it. There’s a lot of quick hands on this team.

- We’ve lost some players but none of them, (with the possible exception of Chance Westry), are major talents. The solid core of the team is intact. If they can keep going the whole game, we can beat anybody.


16-9 (7-7) with 6+ to go…

LET’S GO ORANGE!


Net Points

This year I’m going to make things a bit easier on myself and just list the net points in each game after the Upside. Once a month I’ll do a deeper dive into the numbers rather than doing a “Net Points, etc.” post after every game. ‘Net’ points are the positives (points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks) minus the negatives, (missed field goals and free throws, turnovers and fouls committed).

Judah Mintz game: 29NP in 40 minutes; season: 352NP in 836 minutes = 16.8NP/40m
Maliq Brown game: 23NP in 34 minutes; season: 360NP in 683 minutes = 21.1NP/40m
JJ Starling game: 16NP in 40 minutes; season: 245NP in 870 minutes = 11.3NP/40m
Quadir Copeland game: 8NP in 23 minutes; season: 235NP in 549 minutes = 17.1NP/40m
Chris Bell game: 7NP in 36 minutes; season: 163NP in 610 minutes = 10.7NP/40m
Justin Taylor game: 5NP in 21 minutes; season: 138NP in 585 minutes = 9.4NP/40m
Mounir Hima game: 0NP in 6 minutes; season: 8NP in 38 minutes = 8.4NP/40m

Did not play:
Peter Carey game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 61 minutes = 0.0NP/40m
Kyle Cuffe game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 27NP in 231 minutes = 4.7NP/40m

Hurt:
Chance Westry game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Out for the season:
Naheem McLeod game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 108NP in 202 minutes = 21.4NP/40m

Red Shirting:
William Patterson game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Thrown off team:
Benny Williams game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 99NP in 307 minutes = 12.9NP/40m




Brent Axe:



The Downside

- The credibility we gain from this win is fragile. If we go right back to erratic performances and disappointing losses, people will see this game as proof of North Carolina’s weakness, not our strength.

- Thank you to the refs for calling 11 fouls on us, 3 on Bell and no more than two on anyone else. We are a house of cards.

- Justin Taylor played 21 minutes and he played hard. When everyone around you is giving their all, you are going to do the same. Still he attempted one shot in that time. On the opening possession, he received a pass and was open for a 15 footer. He looked at it, then turned around and looked for someone to pass too. He’s our Chuck Knoblach.

Maliq and Q are who I would consider good passers. Judah can be when his decision making is on point. Bell, Taylor, JJ are not, imo.

You talked about our fast start. I think that’s hugely important. When you have Maliq having an 8, 2, 1, 1, 1 at the first tv timeout, it’s going well.

One other positive, there were back to back plays in the second half where Judah got to the rim and then pulled up for a mid range jumper. Just absolute beast mode of back to back plays. High pressure. No fear. Got the points. When he’s at his best, it’s beautiful to watch. But it’s just not there on a consistent basis.

We’re running six guys plus basically a few mins of whichever backup center is available. I am hoping Cuffe is able to play bc we can’t keep running like that.

I got to use a quote from the oc in the game thread in reference to that rich kid on UNC. That was fun.

 

[M2MPrinciples]

Hima pulled a 6 trillion! 6 minutes, 0-0 FG, 0-0 3FG, 0-0 FT, 0 REB, 0 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 0 TO, 0 PF

 

[bballbeadle]

But he gave Brown a rest.

 

[kirbivore]

- It’s kind of vexed me that we have so many good passers on this team yet the offense is geared for ISO ball. We also have some fine one-on-one players but I think we are at our best when we use both skills, as we did tonight. Some situations were better for ball movement, some for individual player moves

Red has to scrap this ISO ball nonsense.

 

[SWC75]

Hima pulled a 6 trillion! 6 minutes, 0-0 FG, 0-0 3FG, 0-0 FT, 0 REB, 0 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 0 TO, 0 PF

NIL

 

[SWC75]

But he gave Brown a rest.

He enabled us to have 5 guys out there.

 

[23Zone]

Brown has a really sweet stroke from 3. Should shoot more if left wide open like he did yesterday. Just scratching the surface of his potential. Next year he and Freeman will be a formidable tandem at the 3/4 or 4/5.

 

[CardiacCuse]

upside:

they finally beat a top 10 team!

hoopefully this gives confidence for the rest of the season and the next games against quad 1 teams will be different now.

downside:

well, it kinda shows that the blowout losses to all the quad 1 teams until this point werent inevitable outcomes due to being unable to beat the best.


i've thought all season that these blowout losses to the good teams were very unnecessary and unrepresentative of this team's talent...

so while it is a great feather in red's cap...and I dont wanna take anything away from him or the team as result of such a win...those blowout losses simply cannot ever happen and shouldnt have happened...even with all the absences and challenges this team has faced this year.

 

[SBU72]

Plus side...Autry has taught the team how to inbound the ball under pressure late in the game, a failing that cost several games over the past 2 years. The team rebounded well. Mintz played mostly under control. (Did he hear Greenburg's critic?) Winning ingredients. Can they keep doing it?

Negative side... low # of assist (11), could do better at the foulline.

 

[Delmar]

One clear downside is that now I've got to root for UNC to win out --until we beat them in the ACC tourney final.

 

[NorSyr66]

Plus side...Autry has taught the team how to inbound the ball under pressure late in the game, a failing that cost several games over the past 2 years. The team rebounded well. Mintz played mostly under control. (Did he hear Greenburg's critic?) Winning ingredients. Can they keep doing it?

Negative side... low # of assist (11), could do better at the foulline.

I agree on the need to improve fouls shooting. Was there any indication of whether we missed thoughout the game or if our misses were more towards the end when the legs were tiring? I missed most of the first half and did not have the stats available to me as the game progressed.

I also noticed a much stronger attempt at gathering rebounds. Hopefully the coaches are making some inroads!

 

[Nicknack]

Who are the “so many good passers on this team”? Copeland is typically good for a fancy assist or two. Who else? We play iso ball because the best talent of Starling and Mintz is driving and finishing or getting their own shots. Bell is a shooter - rarely makes plays for a teammate.

Yeah, I think that's a good point/question. I wouldn't say we're a great passing team. That said, I think Copeland is better than you're giving him credit at this. To my eye, he isn't prioritizing the fancy play as much as he did early.

Hima pulled a 6 trillion! 6 minutes, 0-0 FG, 0-0 3FG, 0-0 FT, 0 REB, 0 AST, 0 STL, 0 BLK, 0 TO, 0 PF

Yeah, the first couple of possessions, he had me very worried. You could see Bacot and UNC licking their chops when Brown went to the bench. However, to Hima's credit, he settled down and was able to get to the half so Brown could sit and not have to come back in and risk picking up a 3rd.

Mintz played mostly under control. (Did he hear Greenburg's critic?) Winning ingredients.

I completely agree and thought about this several times during the game. He played within himself.

I agree on the need to improve fouls shooting. Was there any indication of whether we missed thoughout the game or if our misses were more towards the end when the legs were tiring?

Maybe someone else here can confirm but what stood out to me were the final 2-3 minutes where it seemed we shot no better than 50%. Fortunately, we were at least hitting the front end of the one and one's.

 

[All4SU]

The Upside

- Yes, it actually happened. After a year full of games against good teams where we played at their level for 25, 30 or 35 minutes, we finally played well for 40 minutes and beat the #7 team in the country, a team that had beaten us by 36 points exactly a month ago. If we can continue to play at or near this level, anything is possible. Having seen what can happen when they do can help.

- We jumped right on them, getting a three by Chris Bell and a couple by Maliq Brown to take a 14-7 lead. We expanded that to 10 points leads at 23-13, 28-18 and 30-20 with 8:03 left in the first half.

- But you knew the Tar Heels were going to get going, on a 19-6 run to take a 40-36 lead. They were really slicing our zone up. But we didn’t collapse, tying the game up at 42 at halftime. We then opened the second half with treys by Chris Bell and JJ Starling to take a 48-42 lead. We pushed that to 52-43.

- But playing UNC is like riding a bull. They are more powerful than you are so you’ve got to continue playing at a high level. They caught us at 58 with 10:02 left. Starling and Bell hit lay-ups to make it 62-58 and the game went back and forth but as Coach Autry said “we kept scoring”. Starling his a three pointer to give us a 76-69 lead with 2:47 to go. It was our last field goal and the Heels kept fouling our guys to get the ball back. It almost worked as we missed 6 of 16 free throws in that period but that was enough to pull out the 86-79 win.

- Matt Park looked at the refs staring at the screen for the umpteenth time with the crowd surrounding the court and said “They are planning their escape route”. There were many controversial calls that favored either team but of course SU fans through they went against us, although a couple of those did get overturned.

- Judah Mintz and JJ Starling had 45 ‘net points’ between them and RJ Davis and Corman Ryan had just 15. Maliq Brown had 23 while Armando Bacot had 19. So there!

- It’s kind of vexed me that we have so many good passers on this team yet the offense is geared for ISO ball. We also have some fine one-on-one players but I think we are at our best when we use both skills, as we did tonight. Some situations were better for ball movement, some for individual player moves

- We got out-rebounded but it was only 23-31 and we had three fewer turnovers. It was key that we shot 62.5%, (which is what teams had been shooting against us). It not only increased our point output, it reduced our rebound deficit. There just weren’t as many rebounds to get.

- Quadir Copeland didn’t put up big numbers but made some great defensive plays down the stretch, including two out-of-bounds plays where he bounced the ball off of defenders and the refs had to look at the monitor to see that he’d done it. There’s a lot of quick hands on this team.

- We’ve lost some players but none of them, (with the possible exception of Chance Westry), are major talents. The solid core of the team is intact. If they can keep going the whole game, we can beat anybody.


16-9 (7-7) with 6+ to go…

LET’S GO ORANGE!


Net Points

This year I’m going to make things a bit easier on myself and just list the net points in each game after the Upside. Once a month I’ll do a deeper dive into the numbers rather than doing a “Net Points, etc.” post after every game. ‘Net’ points are the positives (points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks) minus the negatives, (missed field goals and free throws, turnovers and fouls committed).

Judah Mintz game: 29NP in 40 minutes; season: 352NP in 836 minutes = 16.8NP/40m
Maliq Brown game: 23NP in 34 minutes; season: 360NP in 683 minutes = 21.1NP/40m
JJ Starling game: 16NP in 40 minutes; season: 245NP in 870 minutes = 11.3NP/40m
Quadir Copeland game: 8NP in 23 minutes; season: 235NP in 549 minutes = 17.1NP/40m
Chris Bell game: 7NP in 36 minutes; season: 163NP in 610 minutes = 10.7NP/40m
Justin Taylor game: 5NP in 21 minutes; season: 138NP in 585 minutes = 9.4NP/40m
Mounir Hima game: 0NP in 6 minutes; season: 8NP in 38 minutes = 8.4NP/40m

Did not play:
Peter Carey game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 61 minutes = 0.0NP/40m
Kyle Cuffe game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 27NP in 231 minutes = 4.7NP/40m

Hurt:
Chance Westry game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Out for the season:
Naheem McLeod game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 108NP in 202 minutes = 21.4NP/40m

Red Shirting:
William Patterson game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 0NP in 0 minutes = 0.0NP/40m

Thrown off team:
Benny Williams game: 0NP in 0 minutes; season: 99NP in 307 minutes = 12.9NP/40m




Brent Axe:



The Downside

- The credibility we gain from this win is fragile. If we go right back to erratic performances and disappointing losses, people will see this game as proof of North Carolina’s weakness, not our strength.

- Thank you to the refs for calling 11 fouls on us, 3 on Bell and no more than two on anyone else. We are a house of cards.

- Justin Taylor played 21 minutes and he played hard. When everyone around you is giving their all, you are going to do the same. Still he attempted one shot in that time. On the opening possession, he received a pass and was open for a 15 footer. He looked at it, then turned around and looked for someone to pass too. He’s our Chuck Knoblach.

I’ve never been on a bull. But that seems like a perfect analogy.

To me the difference in this game was taking- and making - those mid range shots.

 

[Nicknack]

I’ve never been on a bull. But that seems like a perfect analogy.

To me the difference in this game was taking- and making - those mid range shots.

Absolutely but those 3's that we made (and especially the two by Brown) were huge as well.

 

[Nicknack]

I'm not sure what to say about JT. With how thin we have become as a team, we obviously very much need him. However, he's just looking scared to shoot the ball. It's getting to a point where teams don't have to respect his shooting and can play off him some. I hate seeing this, because he's better than this and seems like a good kid and teammate. He's just lost his way.

 

[Niastri]

Plus side...Autry has taught the team how to inbound the ball under pressure late in the game, a failing that cost several games over the past 2 years. The team rebounded well. Mintz played mostly under control. (Did he hear Greenburg's critic?) Winning ingredients. Can they keep doing it?

Negative side... low # of assist (11), could do better at the foulline.

UNC made inbounding the ball pretty easy by doubling Mintz or Starling and letting Brown get the ball. They should have stopped doubling after the first time Brown easily passed it upcourt with almost no pressure. Instead, they made it easy. Just another questionable coaching decision by UNC.

 

[Newhouser]

UNC made inbounding the ball pretty easy by doubling Mintz or Starling and letting Brown get the ball. They should have stopped doubling after the first time Brown easily passed it upcourt with almost no pressure. Instead, they made it easy. Just another questionable coaching decision by UNC.

UNC just seemed resigned to let us get it in and wait for us to miss a FT.

 

[upperdeck]

It was nice to see a team of SO beat a team starting a 23 and 25 yr old.

 

[OptimusOtto]

Underrated upside: (at least temporarily) removed my existential dread when turning on the game