Watching all four NCAA games last night...

[RF2044]

...one thing that stood out clearly was the high caliber of offensive play. All four of the victors last night ran their opponents off of the court.

We're going to need to hit shots and continue to find ways to score to advance.


Let's Go Orange!!!

 

[Newhouser]

My concern all week has been our O - there have been moments this season when we have been horrible on O and it had nothing to do with the opponents defense. 2 recent wins don't establish a trend - the previous 31 games is a better guide.

 

[jdubs30]

My concern all week has been our O - there have been moments this season when we have been horrible on O and it had nothing to do with the opponents defense. 2 recent wins don't establish a trend - the previous 31 games is a better guide.

Correct. In those 31 games though we have had stretches of good offense, it's just a matter if we can string together a few more.

 

[br801]

I believe Gonzaga will struggle to score consistently tonight. As long as SU brings a semblance of offense to the party and the bigs stay out of foul trouble, I like our chances a lot.

 

[CorduroyG]

...one thing that stood out clearly was the high caliber of offensive play. All four of the victors last night ran their opponents off of the court.

We're going to need to hit shots and continue to find ways to score to advance.

Let's Go Orange!!!

Yea all 4 teams played at a very high level offensively, a level im not sure we can reach. But we dont gotta worry about any of those teams for now.

 

[CorduroyG]

My concern all week has been our O - there have been moments this season when we have been horrible on O and it had nothing to do with the opponents defense. 2 recent wins don't establish a trend - the previous 31 games is a better guide.

While i agree with you, we have scored 70+ in 6 straight games, so hopefully thats thw trend.

 

[SU94]

...one thing that stood out clearly was the high caliber of offensive play. All four of the victors last night ran their opponents off of the court.

We're going to need to hit shots and continue to find ways to score to advance.


Let's Go Orange!!!

I agree with this. I think we've been playing 4-on-5 offensive basketball a bit too often the last 10 years (and to be 100% fair, we won a NC playing 4-on-5 offensive basketball).

But I think mathematically, and I firmly believe that Boeheim does a lot of great math in his head, we need 5 offensive weapons on the court most of the time. Next year, we very likely won't be playing a lot of 5-on-5 with Chukwu and Coleman manning the 5-spot. And that's okay, but it is not optimal and it might keep us from being a NC contender from Day 1.

No inside info, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Hopkins and his early recruiting efforts will work hard to change this dynamic. We shall see.

 

[TexanMark]

I think F4 is our top ceiling...we are playing with house money right now.

I want the players loose and hopefully they shoot well the next 2 games.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

...one thing that stood out clearly was the high caliber of offensive play. All four of the victors last night ran their opponents off of the court.

We're going to need to hit shots and continue to find ways to score to advance.


Let's Go Orange!!!

Yes, and Gonzaga is a good offensive team averaging 79 ppg vs our 70 ppg. Across the board they are a better shooting team and a better rebounding team. The only stats we are better in are more steals, more blocks and we made 23 more three pointers but we took 100 more shots. Of course we played in a much better conference so apples to apples it doesn't compare but we still need to protect the ball and not give them easy shots. The one advantage we had over MTSU is that we forced them to use the clock more than they were used to. It definitely threw them off their game. The same has to happen tonight. In games they scored 71 points and below their record was 5-7. In games they scored more than 71, their record was 22-0. Our goal has to be to hold them under 70. If we do that we have a great chance at winning.

 

[longtimefan]

Yes, and Gonzaga is a good offensive team averaging 79 ppg vs our 70 ppg. Across the board they are a better shooting team and a better rebounding team. The only stats we are better in are more steals, more blocks and we made 23 more three pointers but we took 100 more shots. Of course we played in a much better conference so apples to apples it doesn't compare but we still need to protect the ball and not give them easy shots.
The one advantage we had over MTSU is that we forced them to use the clock more than they were used to. It definitely threw them off their game. The same has to happen tonight. In games they scored 71 points and below their record was 5-7. In games they scored more than 71, their record was 22-0. Our goal has to be to hold them under 70. If we do that we have a great chance at winning.

The announcers on the last game said that SU leads the country in length of defensive possessions. Which means that we force most everybody to use more clock than they want to. Maintaining this advantage gives the Orange a chance to stay in the game against most anyone else.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I agree with this. I think we've been playing 4-on-5 offensive basketball a bit too often the last 10 years (and to be 100% fair, we won a NC playing 4-on-5 offensive basketball).

But I think mathematically, and I firmly believe that Boeheim does a lot of great math in his head, we need 5 offensive weapons on the court most of the time. Next year, we very likely won't be playing a lot of 5-on-5 with Chukwu and Coleman manning the 5-spot. And that's okay, but it is not optimal and it might keep us from being a NC contender from Day 1.

No inside info, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Hopkins and his early recruiting efforts will work hard to change this dynamic. We shall see.

I don't know about next year. If we are 4-on-5 on offense, I don't think it will be because of Coleman. He has definitely improved throughout the year offensively. Barring injury setbacks, there is good reason to expect a really nice senior year from him.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yes, and Gonzaga is a good offensive team averaging 79 ppg vs our 70 ppg. Across the board they are a better shooting team and a better rebounding team. The only stats we are better in are more steals, more blocks and we made 23 more three pointers but we took 100 more shots. Of course we played in a much better conference so apples to apples it doesn't compare but we still need to protect the ball and not give them easy shots. The one advantage we had over MTSU is that we forced them to use the clock more than they were used to. It definitely threw them off their game. The same has to happen tonight. In games they scored 71 points and below their record was 5-7. In games they scored more than 71, their record was 22-0. Our goal has to be to hold them under 70. If we do that we have a great chance at winning.

Part of the reason they score more than us is because they get more possessions per game than we do. That brings down our PPG.

 

[Ringostar57]

The big thing I noticed was that the winners were the fastest quickest teams up and down the court and could take it to the rim and finish at will.

 

[HoustonCuse]

Yes, and Gonzaga is a good offensive team averaging 79 ppg vs our 70 ppg. Across the board they are a better shooting team and a better rebounding team. The only stats we are better in are more steals, more blocks and we made 23 more three pointers but we took 100 more shots. Of course we played in a much better conference so apples to apples it doesn't compare but we still need to protect the ball and not give them easy shots. The one advantage we had over MTSU is that we forced them to use the clock more than they were used to. It definitely threw them off their game. The same has to happen tonight. In games they scored 71 points and below their record was 5-7. In games they scored more than 71, their record was 22-0. Our goal has to be to hold them under 70. If we do that we have a great chance at winning.

Which quite honestly, when is the last time we gave up 70+ in a tournament game? I looked it up.

Tonight's game will be our 10th NCAA tournament game since the last time we gave up more than 70 points. In that span opponents have averaged 50.33 points against us (holy shizz).

It has been almost exactly 4 years since we gave up 70+, that was against Ohio State in the Regional Final and we were playing without the Big East Defensive Player of the year. Our previous 70+ points against was 7 years ago in the Sweet 16 against a Blake Griffin powered OU team.

Since 2009, we have had 21 tournament games and our record for keeping teams under 70 points is 19-2. In that time period, we have an equal number of games where held teams to under 40 points as we have allowed over 70 points. (!)

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Part of the reason they score more than us is because they get more possessions per game than we do. That brings down our PPG.

YTD we shot 42.9% vs their 48.7% from the field. We would need a lot more possessions than them to outscore them at that percentage. Also, another thing, we are a better offensive rebounding club then they are. Roberson needs a big game but so does everyone.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Which quite honestly, when is the last time we gave up 70+ in a tournament game? I looked it up.

Tonight's game will be our 10th NCAA tournament game since the last time we gave up more than 70 points. In that span opponents have averaged 50.33 points against us (holy shizz).

It has been almost exactly 4 years since we gave up 70+, that was against Ohio State in the Regional Final and we were playing without the Big East Defensive Player of the year. Our previous 70+ points against was 7 years ago in the Sweet 16 against a Blake Griffin powered OU team.

Since 2009, we have had 21 tournament games and our record for keeping teams under 70 points is 19-2. In that time period, we have an equal number of games where held teams to under 40 points as we have allowed over 70 points. (!)

BAM!!! Blueprint to success.

 

[OrangeFoo]

The zone seems to struggle against really good passing teams who don't use a lot of isolation, like Pitt. I only caught the last two games last night but both Kansas and Oregon's offense seem to be based on having better 1:1 players who are able to beat their man. Duke's zone was actually somewhat okay against Oregon but they gave up way too many open shots off of one pass... for comparison purposes it usually takes three or four passes to unlock our D. Kansas looks like a better version of Oregon, with better 1:1 players. I think the zone would do pretty well against Oregon but I think Kansas's guards would get inside our zone pretty easily and do a lot of damage. The biggest concern I would have facing either team is that we would get crushed on the offensive glass... we would do well on the first shot and then give up way too many second shots.

From what little I've seen of Oklahoma I think if we faced them it would be a repeat of 2003... didn't they have some inferior version of Heild in 2003 who looked completely lost against the zone? I totally forget his name. Anyways they seem to be a one-man team on most nights and we seem to do really well against one man teams. I haven't seen Nova at all this year but having seen them over the years I would not want to play them because Jay Wright has no problem unlocking the zone.

 

[pearl31]

Which quite honestly, when is the last time we gave up 70+ in a tournament game? I looked it up.

Tonight's game will be our 10th NCAA tournament game since the last time we gave up more than 70 points. In that span opponents have averaged 50.33 points against us (holy shizz).

It has been almost exactly 4 years since we gave up 70+, that was against Ohio State in the Regional Final and we were playing without the Big East Defensive Player of the year. Our previous 70+ points against was 7 years ago in the Sweet 16 against a Blake Griffin powered OU team.

Since 2009, we have had 21 tournament games and our record for keeping teams under 70 points is 19-2. In that time period, we have an equal number of games where held teams to under 40 points as we have allowed over 70 points. (!)

wow

 

[Cusefan0307]

YTD we shot 42.9% vs their 48.7% from the field. We would need a lot more possessions than them to outscore them at that percentage. Also, another thing, we are a better offensive rebounding club then they are. Roberson needs a big game but so does everyone.

Our FG% doesn't hurt us much because we shoot a lot more threes than most teams at a decent clip (36%) and like you said we are a very good offensive rebounding team.

I also am pretty sure we will be the best defense Gonzaga will have seen all season.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The zone seems to struggle against really good passing teams who don't use a lot of isolation, like Pitt. I only caught the last two games last night but both Kansas and Oregon's offense seem to be based on having better 1:1 players who are able to beat their man. Duke's zone was actually somewhat okay against Oregon but they gave up way too many open shots off of one pass... for comparison purposes it usually takes three or four passes to unlock our D. Kansas looks like a better version of Oregon, with better 1:1 players. I think the zone would do pretty well against Oregon but I think Kansas's guards would get inside our zone pretty easily and do a lot of damage. The biggest concern I would have facing either I team is that we would get crushed on the offensive glass... we would do well on the first shot and then give up way too many second shots.

From what little I've seen of Oklahoma I think if we faced them it would be a repeat of 2003... didn't they have some inferior version of Heild in 2003 who looked completely lost against the zone? I totally forget his name. Anyways they seem to be a one-man team on most nights and we seem to do really well against one man teams. I haven't seen Nova at all this year but having seen them over the years I would not want to play them because Jay Wright has no problem unlocking the zone.

Hollis Price. Hield is a lot better than Price. Hield's a lottery pick, Price wasn't drafted.

Stanford completely shut down Andrew Wiggins two years ago in the tournament playing zone. We did to James Harden in 09.

I do think it's easier to "shut down" star players playing zone compared to man, but not sure if there is data to back this up.

 

[br801]

Which quite honestly, when is the last time we gave up 70+ in a tournament game? I looked it up.

Tonight's game will be our 10th NCAA tournament game since the last time we gave up more than 70 points. In that span opponents have averaged 50.33 points against us (holy shizz).

It has been almost exactly 4 years since we gave up 70+, that was against Ohio State in the Regional Final and we were playing without the Big East Defensive Player of the year. Our previous 70+ points against was 7 years ago in the Sweet 16 against a Blake Griffin powered OU team.

Since 2009, we have had 21 tournament games and our record for keeping teams under 70 points is 19-2. In that time period, we have an equal number of games where held teams to under 40 points as we have allowed over 70 points. (!)

Tremendous stuff, and something you likely won't hear from any of the experts who have or will comment on SU's chances.

 

[orangecuse]

Which quite honestly, when is the last time we gave up 70+ in a tournament game? I looked it up.

Tonight's game will be our 10th NCAA tournament game since the last time we gave up more than 70 points. In that span opponents have averaged 50.33 points against us (holy shizz).

It has been almost exactly 4 years since we gave up 70+, that was against Ohio State in the Regional Final and we were playing without the Big East Defensive Player of the year. Our previous 70+ points against was 7 years ago in the Sweet 16 against a Blake Griffin powered OU team.

Since 2009, we have had 21 tournament games and our record for keeping teams under 70 points is 19-2. In that time period, we have an equal number of games where held teams to under 40 points as we have allowed over 70 points. (!)

Not to mention in that OSU game, they were gifted with some 42 attempts from the charity stripe! :bang:

 

[SoBeCuse]

Tremendous stuff, and something you likely won't hear from any of the experts who have or will comment on SU's chances.

Very true. One could also go the other way saying that our offense probably should have been better and/or we could've had better tournament success with how low scoring offense opponents have been able to generate. But, that's too long a dissertation...personnel, scheme, suspensions, etc.

If our outside shootings remains steady then we should be ok. Villanova didn't seem to be doing anything special besides drive and kick. They were just letting the shots rip and they have been on fire all tournament. If we go on a cold spell at ALL tonight we're going home, imo.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

Yes, and Gonzaga is a good offensive team averaging 79 ppg vs our 70 ppg. Across the board they are a better shooting team and a better rebounding team. The only stats we are better in are more steals, more blocks and we made 23 more three pointers but we took 100 more shots. Of course we played in a much better conference so apples to apples it doesn't compare but we still need to protect the ball and not give them easy shots. The one advantage we had over MTSU is that we forced them to use the clock more than they were used to. It definitely threw them off their game. The same has to happen tonight. In games they scored 71 points and below their record was 5-7. In games they scored more than 71, their record was 22-0. Our goal has to be to hold them under 70. If we do that we have a great chance at winning.

I'll bump my own post. We kept them under 70 and won. We need to do the same thing on Sunday. Our guys came up big in the 2nd half once again. Congrats to both men and women.