Watching SU games from not long ago 2009-2012 Era

[Alsacs]

People are right it starts with the guards as to why the offense has sucked.
Those teams had guards who passed the ball around and would throw it down low just to create spacing.
Those teams rebounded and got transition hoops as well.

Since 2013-2014 our offense has sucked because the guards have become awful at passing. We can't get any spacing because all we can do is ball screen and if the opposing Big doesn't hedge an open elbow jumper.

Passing has become awful in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. The two guard can't pass and the PG doesn't pass either. The offense has devolved. I mean this stuff needs to be practiced better. Ball screens aren't enough.

Posting up and ball movement has to come back. We have the talent.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Is that on the guards or on coaching/scheme?

I think it's on coaching and whatever we're trying to run. It's not that hard to improve passing and get more out of our offense by doing more than just ball screening. Watch any other team, except maybe Baylor, and you'll see more movement, more passing, more desire to work the ball down low and back out.

Yes, having a PG and better passers would help, but so would improving what we're trying to accomplish in the half court.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

High ball screen offenses with an effective PG, wing shooters and pick and roll/pop bigs are what is used predominantly in the NBA. If you have talent at those positions it works as it causes stress on individual defenders.

When you don't have very good PG play or screeners with no offensive game it can break down very easily. I believe that happened quite a bit this year with Gillon and Roberson. Not a knock on them directly but without a very good PG (I like Gillon and he was probably the best we had but let's not kid ourselves on his overall talent level) the ball screen offense can look ugly at times.

 

[Alsacs]

Is that on the guards or on coaching/scheme?

I think it's on coaching and whatever we're trying to run. It's not that hard to improve passing and get more out of our offense by doing more than just ball screening. Watch any other team, except maybe Baylor, and you'll see more movement, more passing, more desire to work the ball down low and back out.

Yes, having a PG and better passers would help, but so would improving what we're trying to accomplish in the half court.

Its on both.

We used to pass the ball around the perimeter attacked the opponents weakness. Now we get the ball in one players' hands everyone else stands around and its a tough jump shot or wild drive.

We need guards who move the ball. Ennis/Cooney/Gbinije/Joseph/Gillon/Battle none of them have shown the ability to pass the ball. Our best passing guard has actually been Frank Howard because he can't shoot.

Until we get better ball movement and post players up this offense is going suck and the offense isn't going to change as long as JB is coach.

 

[HOFCeluck]

People are right it starts with the guards as to why the offense has sucked.
Those teams had guards who passed the ball around and would throw it down low just to create spacing.
Those teams rebounded and got transition hoops as well.

Since 2013-2014 our offense has sucked because the guards have become awful at passing. We can't get any spacing because all we can do is ball screen and if the opposing Big doesn't hedge an open elbow jumper.

Passing has become awful in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. The two guard can't pass and the PG doesn't pass either. The offense has devolved. I mean this stuff needs to be practiced better. Ball screens aren't enough.

Posting up and ball movement has to come back. We have the talent.

Here's a hot take: watching the end of the SU/KU game I'd kill for a Paul Harris. But he got murdered here for three years because he wasn't the next Melo.

 

[Alsacs]

Here's a hot take: watching the end of the SU/KU game I'd kill for a Paul Harris. But he got murdered here for three years because he wasn't the next Melo.

JB hated Harris. There had to be a reason why but the kid worked his ass off on the boards and was a guard m2m defender. He couldn't shoot but I would kill for a Harris for where Roberson was this year.

Surround Harris with shooters he would have done the Junkyard dog role well.
However, JB hated him more than he hates Roberson and he has killed Roberson way more in the press.

 

[dasher]

JB hated Harris. There had to be a reason why but the kid worked his ass off on the boards and was a guard m2m defender. He couldn't shoot but I would kill for a Harris for where Roberson was this year.

Surround Harris with shooters he would have done the Junkyard dog role well.
However, JB hated him more than he hates Roberson and he has killed Roberson way more in the press.

Harris wasn't a good fit for this program. He also quit a number of times. when i put together a list of kids I wished we had, he doesn't make the first 20 pages.

 

[Lucid]

Passing has become awful in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017. The two guard can't pass and the PG doesn't pass either. The offense has devolved. I mean this stuff needs to be practiced better. Ball screens aren't enough.

If I have a knock against Gillon, this is it. He's not good at finding the open man down low, or maybe it's that there is no open man down low?

Either way, JG brings the ball down and probes the defense, and fakes a couple of drives. By the time he gets around to putting a real play together, the shot clock is gone.

Frustrating.

 

[cuse10]

They also pushed the pace in those years. Pushing the rock to create offense came to a screeching halt when Ennis took over and the offensive system hasn't changed since.

 

[OrangeDW]

Here's a hot take: watching the end of the SU/KU game I'd kill for a Paul Harris. But he got murdered here for three years because he wasn't the next Melo.

The kid averaged 14 and 9 as a soph and 12 and 8 as a junior.

He was a good player here. But yeah, expectations were too high. He clearly drove Boeheim nuts and I'm sure we don't know the half of it.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Watching the KU game also made me forget the part about how he ran off to Niagara Falls and I think Hopkins had to go get him.

So like I said. A hot take.

 

[cuse10]

Watching the KU game also made me forget the part about how he ran off to Niagara Falls and I think Hopkins had to go get him.

So like I said. A hot take.

He did have to go get him. This was after the fight with Andy Rautins at practice.

 

[HoustonCuse]

He did have to go get him. This was after the fight with Andy Rautins at practice.

Wait Andy Rautins fought Paul Harris? Why is he still alive?

 

[Madbiker]

The kid averaged 14 and 9 as a soph and 12 and 8 as a junior.

He was a good player here. But yeah, expectations were too high. He clearly drove Boeheim nuts and I'm sure we don't know the half of it.

I don't know if they keep records for the most turnovers on inbounds passes -- but I'm sure Paul Harris has it easily.

 

[dasher]

Wait Andy Rautins fought Paul Harris? Why is he still alive?

Andy didn't fight Paul. There was a tie up for the ball and Paul discarded Andy.