We interrupt the recent b*tchfest

[Henny & Coke]

for some positive observations:

Michael Carter-Williams is certainly aiming for the Syracuse Basketball record book in his first season of major playing time.

Although MCW was recently overtaken for the national lead in assists/game, his current average of 8.2 assists per game (197 total assists so far) is still pretty impressive. Let's see how those numbers currently rank compared to the all-time greats:

Current Top 5 Seasons in SU History (Assists/game):
Sherman Douglas (88-89) 8.6
Sherman Douglas (87-88) 8.2
Dwayne "Pearl" Washington (85-86) 7.8
Sherman Douglas (86-87) 7.6
Lazarus Sims (95-96) 7.4

Current Top 5 Seasons in SU History (Total Assists):
Sherman Douglas (88-89) 326
Sherman Douglas (86-87) 289
Sherman Douglas (87-88) 288
Lazarus Sims (95-96) 281
Jonny Flynn (08-09) 254

Michael Carter-Williams is still in the top 5 nationally in steals per game though, as his current average of 3.1 steals per game (75 total steals so far) ranks him third in the nation. Compared to the all-time SU greats:

Current Top 5 Seasons in SU History (Steals/game):
Jason Hart (98-99) 3.1
James Thues (01-02) 2.8
Jason Hart (96-97) 2.8
Dwayne "Pearl" Washington (85-86) 2.6

Current Top 5 Seasons in SU History (Total Steals):
James Thues (01-02) 101
Jason Hart (98-9) 101
Jason Hart (96-97) 90
Eddie Moss (80-81) 85
Dwayne "Pearl" Washington (85-86) 82

Michael Carter-Williams is also a pretty nice rebounder for a guard (especially a point guard). He currently averages 4.8 rebounds per game (114 total rebounds so far). Being curious as to when the last time a Syracuse guard averaged such a high rebound average, I looked it up...Josh Pace averaged 5.0 rebounds per game in 04-05, the highest total I could find. (And, correct me if I'm wrong, Pace was listed as a guard/forward.) Billy Edelin also posted an impressive 4.2 rebounds per game average in 03-04.

As we continue finishing out the Big East schedule and move on into the Big East & NCAA tournaments, the level of competition will remain very strong. Suffice it to say that there is likely to be some downward pressure on all such averages. But, I for one will be rooting for our (basically) first-year point guard to continue to play well, lead the team to great heights, and in the process, hopefully we get to witness some history (in the form of an all-time Top 5 Season in one or more of these categories, including the national ones.)

Now, back to your regularly scheduled b*tching & moaning...Everyone sucks! Can't wait for (so and so) to leave! I miss every player we used to have! When is (player X) finally going to have a decent game! This team is NIT bound! Playoffs? You talking about Playoffs? Playoffs? (Opps, sorry about that last one, thats football.)

 

[NineOneSeven]

Your LTPR (like to post ratio), already >1 but barely, will certainly increase after that post.

 

[Tobias Funke]

MCW has had a lot of positives this year despite what some think. Far from perfect and he has some glaring flaws , but he does bring plenty to the table

 

[NKR1978]

Your LTPR (like to post ratio), already >1 but barely, will certainly increase after that post.

We need to come to a consensus on what to call this ratio. I've liked MPL (messages per like) or PPL (posts per like). And just when I start feeling good about mine I see s UConn poster come by with more likes than posts.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Coach Orange]

Most of the teams in the country would love to "put up" with Michael's mistakes. He isn't perfect--who is? He is a young man still learning how to play the game and, as importantly, be a leader.

However, he already has a solid foundation of fundamental skills to build off of as he moves forward. He's a lot better than many people want to admit, and that seems to be what really bothers them. They know that if he stayed and continued to progress, he'd probably be really good, and the team would probably be really good (i.e. Final Four good) as a result.

 

[NineOneSeven]

And Henny, I would definitely consider Pace a small forward- body wise, and play wise. Anything further than 15 feet, not his game.

One of my favorite SU players ever. His senior year he averaged 11 ppg, 5 rpg, 3.8 apg, 1.5 spg, and shot 57% from the field. Great role player and seemed like a great guy.

 

[rosconey]

stevie thompson -my all time favorite

if he only had a jumper- he would have been a nba all star

 

[PhatOrange]

I'd like to see what MCW's numbers are in the Big East vs the OOC slate.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I'd like to see what MCW's numbers are in the Big East vs the OOC slate.

DATE OPP RESULT

MIN​

FGM-FGA​

FG%​

3PM-3PA​

3P%​

FTM-FTA​

FT%​

REB​

AST​

BLK​

STL​

PF​

TO​

PTS​

Fri 11/9

• vs
• #20 SAN DIEGO ST

Postponed
Sun 11/11

• vs
• #20 SAN DIEGO ST

W 62-49

32​

7-15​

.467​

0-1​

.000​

3-3​

1.000​

4​

4​

1​

5​

5​

4​

17​

Sun 11/18

• vs
• WAGNER

W 88-57

29​

2-7​

.286​

0-2​

.000​

2-3​

.667​

6​

11​

2​

3​

2​

3​

6​

Wed 11/21

• vs
• PRINCETON

W 73-53

35​

4-9​

.444​

1-4​

.250​

1-2​

.500​

6​

9​

0​

4​

0​

3​

10​

Sun 11/25

• vs
• COLGATE

W 87-51

28​

2-5​

.400​

0-1​

.000​

4-4​

1.000​

6​

13​

0​

4​

2​

1​

8​

Fri 11/30

• @
• ARKANSAS

W 91-82

34​

7-15​

.467​

0-3​

.000​

3-5​

.600​

10​

9​

0​

3​

4​

6​

17​

Mon 12/3

• vs
• E MICHIGAN

W 84-48

32​

3-9​

.333​

0-4​

.000​

5-7​

.714​

7​

11​

1​

3​

1​

6​

11​

Thu 12/6

• vs
• LONG BEACH ST

W 84-53

32​

5-16​

.313​

3-8​

.375​

2-2​

1.000​

3​

10​

0​

3​

3​

4​

15​

Sat 12/8

• vs
• MONMOUTH

W 108-56

26​

6-10​

.600​

2-4​

.500​

1-1​

1.000​

3​

16​

4​

5​

1​

3​

15​

Sat 12/15

• vs
• CANISIUS

W 85-61

38​

4-9​

.444​

1-3​

.333​

3-4​

.750​

2​

14​

0​

3​

3​

2​

12​

Mon 12/17

• vs
• DETROIT

W 72-68

34​

1-6​

.167​

1-4​

.250​

9-10​

.900​

3​

10​

0​

1​

1​

6​

12​

Sat 12/22

• vs
• TEMPLE

L 83-79

33​

3-17​

.176​

0-5​

.000​

7-15​

.467​

5​

6​

0​

3​

4​

3​

13​

Sat 12/29

• vs
• ALCORN ST

W 57-36

27​

1-3​

.333​

0-0​

.000​

3-3​

1.000​

1​

6​

1​

2​

1​

5​

5​

Mon 12/31

• vs
• CENT CONN ST

W 96-62

34​

6-10​

.600​

3-4​

.750​

3-4​

.750​

9​

13​

0​

2​

1​

6​

18​

Wed 1/2

• vs
• RUTGERS

W 78-53

37​

5-10​

.500​

2-4​

.500​

0-0​

.000​

1​

10​

1​

1​

3​

2​

12​

Sun 1/6

• @
• SOUTH FLORIDA

W 55-44

38​

1-13​

.077​

1-4​

.250​

1-3​

.333​

9​

5​

0​

4​

0​

3​

4​

Wed 1/9

• @
• PROVIDENCE

W 72-66

38​

6-13​

.462​

2-6​

.333​

3-3​

1.000​

6​

6​

0​

5​

2​

1​

17​

Sat 1/12

• vs
• VILLANOVA

W 72-61

38​

3-12​

.250​

0-2​

.000​

4-6​

.667​

3​

7​

0​

3​

2​

3​

10​

Sat 1/19

• @
• #1 LOUISVILLE

W 70-68

38​

4-13​

.308​

2-7​

.286​

6-8​

.750​

4​

7​

2​

4​

4​

8​

16​

Mon 1/21

• vs
• #21 CINCINNATI

W 57-55

36​

6-10​

.600​

2-5​

.400​

2-2​

1.000​

5​

7​

0​

1​

2​

3​

16​

Sat 1/26

• @
• VILLANOVA

L 75-71(OT)

44​

4-17​

.235​

1-4​

.250​

8-14​

.571​

5​

4​

0​

0​

4​

5​

17​

Sat 2/2

• @
• PITTSBURGH

L 65-55

30​

3-12​

.250​

1-5​

.200​

6-7​

.857​

4​

2​

0​

3​

5​

3​

13​

Mon 2/4

• vs
• #25 NOTRE DAME

W 63-47

30​

1-3​

.333​

1-2​

.500​

2-2​

1.000​

3​

8​

1​

3​

0​

1​

5​

Sun 2/10

• vs
• ST. JOHN'S

W 77-58

37​

6-9​

.667​

3-5​

.600​

2-2​

1.000​

4​

8​

0​

6​

0​

2​

17​

Wed 2/13

• @
• CONNECTICUT

L 66-58

32​

6-13​

.462​

0-3​

.000​

3-4​

.750​

5​

1​

1​

4​

5​

4​

15​

 

[Rocco]

Give me MCW over Scoop every day. Loved Scoop, but MCW is incredible. Can completely change a game when he is on.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Came out very in an odd format, but still readable.

 

[Henny & Coke]

I'd like to see what MCW's numbers are in the Big East vs the OOC slate.

Here is my quick math on this:

Non-conference (13 games):
PPG: 12.2
APG: 10.2
RPG: 5.0
SPG: 3.2
TPG: 4.0

Big East games (11 games):
PPG: 12.9
APG: 5.9
RPG: 4.5
SPG: 3.1
TPG: 3.2

And then one last interesting note to go along with the data I posted last night...Since I thought I may have broken my keyboard by typing in "Sherman Douglas" so much last night due to his incredible assist numbers while at SU, I wanted to go back & checkout the players he played with. Check it out (which group would you rather have?):

Sherman Douglas (88-89): 8.6 assists/game (326 total assists!)

88-89 SU Basketball players:
Stephen Thompson (JR) 18.0 PPG
Derrick Coleman (JR) 16.9 PPG
Billy Owens (FR) 13.0 PPG
Matt Roe (JR) 11.0 PPG
Dave Johnson (FR) 4.2 PPG

That's 4 players averaging over 11 PPG! (And Sherman averaged 18.2 PPG himself!) Quite the group of SU legends to pass the ball to, wouldn't you say? (Not to take anything away from Sherm's accomplishments, though, cause he was the best.)

Now, compare with the offensive abilities of this year's SU squad:

12-13 SU Basketball players:
Brandon Triche (SR) 14.3 PPG
CJ Fair (JR) 13.8 PPG
James Southerland (SR) 13.6 PPG - (Although he missed 6 games.)
Rak Christmas (SOPH) 6.4 PPG

Some nice averages there, to be sure, but not exactly the Derrick Coleman's and Billy Owens' of the SU world. (Sherm also played with a (SR) Rony Seikaly in 87-88, when Sherm posted 8.2 assist/game avg & 288 total.)

Just some things to consider.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Now, back to your regularly scheduled b*tching & moaning...Everyone sucks! Can't wait for (so and so) to leave! I miss every player we used to have! When is (player X) finally going to have a decent game! This team is NIT bound! Playoffs? You talking about Playoffs? Playoffs? (Opps, sorry about that last one, thats football.)

you left out

 

[PhatOrange]

Here is my quick math on this:

Non-conference (13 games):
PPG: 12.2
APG: 10.2
RPG: 5.0
SPG: 3.2
TPG: 4.0

Big East games (11 games):
PPG: 12.9
APG: 5.9
RPG: 4.5
SPG: 3.1
TPG: 3.2

No idea what conclusion to draw. His numbers are even across the board except for the assists are almost half. Could be a number of factors for that.

I'll have to take a look at his shots per game. My guess would be he's taking more shots in conference.

But overall he's been pretty steady.

 

[Melancer46]

No idea what conclusion to draw. His numbers are even across the board except for the assists are almost half. Could be a number of factors for that.

I'll have to take a look at his shots per game. My guess would be he's taking more shots in conference.

But overall he's been pretty steady.

No idea what the numbers say, but it certainly seems like we've shot the ball worse in Big East play, but maybe I'm just caught up on Triche's 3 point shooting lately. Cooney certainly shot better in OOC.

 

[Madbiker]

Imagine what his numbers would be if he played in the WCC against the teams the Zags play for two solid months.

 

[PhatOrange]

MCW shooting numbers in conference:

11 Games:

36%
45 - 125

11.4 shots per game

In the 3 losses he's:
4-17 (4 a / 5 to)
3-12 (2 a / 3 to)
6-13 (1 a / 4 to)

In the 3 losses he's also only had 7 assists to 12 turnovers

**
OOC - 13 games

51-131
39%

10.1 shots per game

Against Temple: 3-17 (6 assists to 3 turnovers)

***
He shoots more in conference games and has fewer assists. In the 4 losses he's taken a ridiculous number of shots. Averaged only 3.25 assists and 3.75 turnovers)

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Here is my quick math on this:

Non-conference (13 games):
PPG: 12.2
APG: 10.2
RPG: 5.0
SPG: 3.2
TPG: 4.0

Big East games (11 games):
PPG: 12.9
APG: 5.9
RPG: 4.5
SPG: 3.1
TPG: 3.2

And then one last interesting note to go along with the data I posted last night...Since I thought I may have broken my keyboard by typing in "Sherman Douglas" so much last night due to his incredible assist numbers while at SU, I wanted to go back & checkout the players he played with. Check it out (which group would you rather have?):

Sherman Douglas (88-89): 8.6 assists/game (326 total assists!)

88-89 SU Basketball players:
Stephen Thompson (JR) 18.0 PPG
Derrick Coleman (JR) 16.9 PPG
Billy Owens (FR) 13.0 PPG
Matt Roe (JR) 11.0 PPG
Dave Johnson (FR) 4.2 PPG

That's 4 players averaging over 11 PPG! (And Sherman averaged 18.2 PPG himself!) Quite the group of SU legends to pass the ball to, wouldn't you say? (Not to take anything away from Sherm's accomplishments, though, cause he was the best.)

Now, compare with the offensive abilities of this year's SU squad:

12-13 SU Basketball players:
Brandon Triche (SR) 14.3 PPG
CJ Fair (JR) 13.8 PPG
James Southerland (SR) 13.6 PPG - (Although he missed 6 games.)
Rak Christmas (SOPH) 6.4 PPG

Some nice averages there, to be sure, but not exactly the Derrick Coleman's and Billy Owens' of the SU world. (Sherm also played with a (SR) Rony Seikaly in 87-88, when Sherm posted 8.2 assist/game avg & 288 total.)

Just some things to consider.

I should have scrolled down to your post before going into the stats site to compile my own : (

Yeah, the huge disparity between MCW's OOC and BE assists concerns me. I don't think it's even worthwhile to mention his complete season Assists average anymore. Only 1 against UConn? Ouch. But, the difference between Sherman and MCW, as mentioned, is Talent Around Them. Not having James for so much of the BE has hurt. And, that the 80s teams probably scored a lot more points per game than we do in this era. Fries at 100 versus Tacos at 75, right?

 

[RF2044]

I should have scrolled down to your post before going into the stats site to compile my own : (

Yeah, the huge disparity between MCW's OOC and BE assists concerns me. I don't think it's even worthwhile to mention his complete season Assists average anymore. Only 1 against UConn? Ouch. But, the difference between Sherman and MCW, as mentioned, is Talent Around Them. Not having James for so much of the BE has hurt. And, that the 80s teams probably scored a lot more points per game than we do in this era. Fries at 100 versus Tacos at 75, right?

That's not the only difference.

 

[anomander]

how dare you be reasonable. you should expect much more from a sophmore playing major mins for the first time in his career. shame on you. never mind defenses adjusted to his game and force him to score more. he should be passing to our center baye and rak . he will never get drafted, he sucks.

 

[senorpalmer]

how dare you be reasonable. you should expect much more from a sophmore playing major mins for the first time in his career. shame on you. never mind defenses adjusted to his game and force him to score more. he should be passing to our center baye and rak . he will never get drafted, he sucks.

For a guy whos so inexperienced he sure takes (and misses) a ton of shots. As long as hes gonna shoot 35% from the field he might as well pass to Rak or Baye, they couldnt do much worse. Its frustrating because he excels in a lot of other areas, but he he taints it playing selfishly way too often and taking way too many bad shots.

 

[anomander]

For a guy whos so inexperienced he sure takes (and misses) a ton of shots. As long as hes gonna shoot 35% from the field he might as well pass to Rak or Baye, they couldnt do much worse. Its frustrating because he excels in a lot of other areas, but he he taints it playing selfishly way too often and taking way too many bad shots.

Just exactly how is he selfish? Look at the offense they run . It's primarily pick and roll so literally almost every time it's going to be either him or triche making the decision . In non conference before defenses adjusted he was averaging close to 10 assist a game. Now defenses have adjusted, but we're still running the same offense, and they are taking the pass away forcing him to shoot more . According to the stats posted before its only 2 shots more a game. It's not like he has a ton of options I don't know what you expect , but if your nit picking him then obviously your expecting perfection and nothing else

 

[orangecuse]

Give me MCW over Scoop every day. Loved Scoop, but MCW is incredible. Can completely change a game when he is on.

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know yet. For me, to date, there hasn't been a large enough sample size to decipher with such definity. I guess time will tell...I'm still waiting for that moment when MCW is so "on" that he completely changes the game's otherwise seemingly apparent trajectory. When has he had that particular moment to date?

 

[anomander]

I'm not disagreeing, I just don't know yet. For me, to date, there hasn't been a large enough sample size to decipher with such definity. I guess time will tell...I'm still waiting for that moment when MCW is so "on" that he completely changes the game's otherwise seemingly apparent trajectory. Has he had that particular moment to date?

How about when he scored the last 12 points or something and basically won the Louisville game on his own?

 

[orangecuse]

How about when he scored the last 12 points or something and basically won the Louisville game on his own?

I just don't remember that game going down like that, where he single handedly just took over the game. I recall us being down 4 or 5 points late in the game and Louisville just made blunder after blunder down the stretch with bad turnovers leading to fast break type points. JB himself mentioned how we were fortunate to get that W. I also recall the game day guys, including Bilas (who typically gives a lot of love to JB & the Orange) saying basically the same thing, L'ville gave the game away (similar as we did against 'Nova). Bilas and company certainly were not putting the emphasis on MCW and how he single handedly 'changed' the game's otherwise probable outcome.