we need more possessions

[Millhouse]

but boeheim will only press sparingly when down and won't play enough guys

we are 348th in the country in possessions.

you have no margin for error when the game is that short. shot every 24 seconds last night. that game averaged an nba shot clock violation

of course when they finally do press, gbinije spoils it by not even giving it a chance.

we try to goad teams into taking threes, why don't we goad teams into trying to run?

 

[NineOneSeven]

348th

 

[Guinness]

The only time we looked in the flow last night was the start of the second half. It seemed like we really picked up the pace and were able to get the lead out to 13. We then proceeded to right back to slow playing it.

 

[Millhouse]

we're 26th in the country in points per possession.

we around so much before letting cj or grant barrel to the hoop. if that's what we're going to do, do it early and do it often

 

[Millhouse]

and we're 4th in steal percentage.

 

[newmexicuse]

Fewer possessions is part of Jimmy's plan, it is part of what makes him think he can get by with only six. If we were racing up & down the court even Jimmy would have to dig deeper into the bench.

 

[Millhouse]

Fewer possessions is part of Jimmy's plan, it is part of what makes him think he can get by with only six. If we were racing up & down the court even Jimmy would have to dig deeper into the bench.

it's a long way from 348th to Loyola Marymount

 

[SmilinBob]

BC took early shots on the clock in the beginning of the second half and Donahue called TO and they stopped and worked the clock. Shot 52% in the second half and penetrated the zone.

Is it possible that JB has told them to slow it down to extend the clock? He got on Ennis on one of his fast breaks possible because of how he did or possibly another reason.

 

[Millhouse]

BC took early shots on the clock in the beginning of the second half and Donahue called TO and they stopped and worked the clock. Shot 52% in the second half and penetrated the zone.

Is it possible that JB has told them to slow it down to extend the clock? He got on Ennis on one of his fast breaks possible because of how he did or possibly another reason.

i think ennis hears all the praise for assist to turnover ratio and it might be affecting him a little. the optimal number of turnovers isn't zero. we can play fast and have a couple more lost possessions from turnovers or we can play slow and miss out on even more lost possessions

he's good enough to do more, he needs to be encouraged

 

[Alsacs]

We don't around teams gameplan are to be patient against the zone and shorten the game. Teams with inferior talent see at as a way to keep the game close till the end. Our offense isn't elite, but its well above for a college team. Your absolutely right about the lack of possessions and that is because most of the other teams we play have less talent thus they burn shot clock. I hope coaches this offseason shave 5 seconds off the shot clock and bring it down to the women's college basketball level of 30 seconds. Those 5 extra seconds would add possession to the game. If JB had a deeper bench he could press more to speed up opponents, but he can't burn Grant, Fair, Ennis's legs by pressing more than absolutely necessary. 2 years ago when were 10 deep JB would press often in games for tempo and momentum because he had 10 guys and didn't need Fair, Ennis playing 40 minutes. JB probably likes the tempo because of his lack of depth, but it is hurting his team's margin for error as well by having less possession. Duke will play us straight up because they have similar talent and want an up and down game. Its not coincidence that our best offensive game was against Duke because of the more possessions in the game and constant up and down flow in the game.

 

[Millhouse]

We don't around teams gameplan are to be patient against the zone and shorten the game. Teams with inferior talent see at as a way to keep the game close till the end. Our offense isn't elite, but its well above for a college team. Your absolutely right about the lack of possessions and that is because most of the other teams we play have less talent thus they burn shot clock. I hope coaches this offseason shave 5 seconds off the shot clock and bring it down to the women's college basketball level of 30 seconds. Those 5 extra seconds would add possession to the game. If JB had a deeper bench he could press more to speed up opponents, but he can't burn Grant, Fair, Ennis's legs by pressing more than absolutely necessary. 2 years ago when were 10 deep JB would press often in games for tempo and momentum because he had 10 guys and didn't need Fair, Ennis playing 40 minutes. JB probably likes the tempo because of his lack of depth, but it is hurting his team's margin for error as well by having less possession. Duke will play us straight up because they have similar talent and want an up and down game. Its not coincidence that our best offensive game was against Duke because of the more possessions in the game and constant up and down flow in the game.

I was in the middle of disagreeing with you until i got to the bold part

we don't need to press or play more guys, we just need ennis to dictate more.

 

[007]

but boeheim will only press sparingly when down and won't play enough guys

we are 348th in the country in possessions.

you have no margin for error when the game is that short. shot every 24 seconds last night. that game averaged an nba shot clock violation

of course when they finally do press, gbinije spoils it by not even giving it a chance.

we try to goad teams into taking threes, why don't we goad teams into trying to run?

We are 25-1

We are 232nd in points scored per game (i realize this is a factor of # of possessions and offensive efficiency); 146th in field goal percentage; and a staggering 301st in defensive rebounds per game.

We are 7th in points allowed per game

Maybe JB is attempting to maximize scoring production that is limited by "average" shooting by emphasizing offensive efficiency which in turn limits possessions? Not saying i necessarily agree that JB is thinking that way (I suspect he typically goes with his gut anyway).

Maybe JB knows that a deliberate, efficient offense also limits the number of possessions that an opposing team has to try to produce against a D that is 7th best in allowing points. Wouldn't those be the percentages to play??

 

[PhatOrange]

Ennis is starting to make me crazy by passing up wide open 3 pointers. Might be a little off topic but I just thought I'd mention it.

 

[Millhouse]

We are 25-1

We are 232nd in points scored per game (i realize this is a factor of # of possessions and offensive efficiency); 146th in field goal percentage; and a staggering 301st in defensive rebounds per game.

We are 7th in points allowed per game

Maybe JB is attempting to maximize scoring production that is limited by "average" shooting by emphasizing offensive efficiency which in turn limits possessions? Not saying i necessarily agree that JB is thinking that way (I suspect he typically goes with his gut anyway).

Maybe JB knows that a deliberate, efficient offense also limits the number of possessions that an opposing team has to try to produce against a D that is 7th best in allowing points. Wouldn't those be the percentages to play??

if we're so good at defense, why would be worried about giving them more shots? who cares, we can defend. teams that are better per possession should want to amplify that by having more of them

if gmac and I are going to have a free throw shooting contest and i get to pick how many shots we take, I'm going with one shot. why let the law of large numbers kick in? he might miss one, hope i get lucky

undefeated teams shouldn't want to limit possessions.

 

[NateW]

Great post. This is my main gripe with JB against inferior league opponents. If the situation was the same against Cornell or some cream puff we would have been pressing early and often to get the juices flowing (crowd and players) but against inferior league opponents he never shows full-court press unless we're down late. Why not give Roberson some minutes in the first half and speed the opponent up by pressing or trapping?

Pressing and even trapping in the half-court setting does put pressure on the back line and obviously we're thin there so perhaps JB is worried about foul trouble for the big guys. Just disappointed that we don't impose our will on inferior opponents and we allow them to dictate the pace of play.

 

[newmexicuse]

Great post. This is my main gripe with JB against inferior league opponents. If the situation was the same against Cornell or some cream puff we would have been pressing early and often to get the juices flowing (crowd and players) but against league opponents he rarely shows full-court press unless we're down late. Why not give Roberson some minutes in the first half and speed the opponent up?

Pressing and even trapping in the half-court setting does put pressure on the back line and obviously we're thin there so perhaps JB is worried about foul trouble for the big guys. Just disappointed that we don't impose our will on inferior opponents and we allow them to dictate the pace of play.

Jimmy put on the press once and BC easily broke it by passing up top. Rather than make the adjustment to prevent that next time around, Jimmy simply took the press off.

 

[007]

if we're so good at defense, why would be worried about giving them more shots? who cares, we can defend. teams that are better per possession should want to amplify that by having more of them

if gmac and I are going to have a free throw shooting contest and i get to pick how many shots we take, I'm going with one shot. why let the law of large numbers kick in? he might miss one, hope i get lucky

undefeated teams shouldn't want to limit possessions.

The debate is not whether SU is "worried about" giving up more possessions/shots on D. The issue is that running a deliberate Offense improves the efficiency of an offense that is somewhat limited by shooting percentages and/or maximized by Ennis's ability to deliberately control games. The resulting effect of that decision gives opposing teams fewer possessions to try to be effective against SU's D which, statistically, is a much more difficult task than the task that SU faces in trying to score against opposing Ds. This is an ancillary benefit, not the prime object. And, from the start, it has a limiting effect on the number of possessions SU will have on O.

The prime objective for this team IMO, is to maximize offensive efficiency not number of possessions. As you said, "why let the law of large(er) numbers (in this case shooting %) kick in?"

Again, I doubt that JB thinks in those terms. So theoretical debates like this are probably pointless. JB will likely go with his gut. I am willing to bet that you are going to hear him say we need to get smarter on offense/make better decisions/execute better. Having more possessions per game does not necessarily guarantee that this particular team will be more productive.

JB has 25 successful outcomes in 26 events running a deliberate offense. Those are the numbers he will emphasize.

 

[Millhouse]

The issue is that running a deliberate Offense improves the efficiency of an offense that is somewhat limited by shooting percentages and/or maximized by Ennis's ability to deliberately control games.

i don't think that's the case at all

 

[Madbiker]

but boeheim will only press sparingly when down and won't play enough guys

we are 348th in the country in possessions.

you have no margin for error when the game is that short. shot every 24 seconds last night. that game averaged an nba shot clock violation

of course when they finally do press, gbinije spoils it by not even giving it a chance.

we try to goad teams into taking threes, why don't we goad teams into trying to run?

It isn't just the lack of using a press or pressuring on D to speed up the game. SU contributes by walking the ball up the court on its offensive possessions. Not sure if this by JB's design or just that Ennis likes to play half court and his strength is not fast break basketball.

 

[orangenirvana]

I've been frustrated all season because I can't tell if Ennis' reluctance to push the ball up the court is by design or because he's not good at it (not confident, naturally conservative).

 

[SUFan44]

but boeheim will only press sparingly when down and won't play enough guys

we are 348th in the country in possessions.

you have no margin for error when the game is that short. shot every 24 seconds last night. that game averaged an nba shot clock violation

of course when they finally do press, gbinije spoils it by not even giving it a chance.

we try to goad teams into taking threes, why don't we goad teams into trying to run?

We're 25-1. We lost after shooting 32%. We make two more shots we win while shooting 35%. Nobody beats anyone shooting that percentage. If we shoot 40% (not great by any stretch), we win by near double figures.

Bottom line we just need to shoot better and take higher quality shots. I have more issues with the quality of shots they take than I do with the pace of play.

 

[Millhouse]

We're 25-1. We lost after shooting 32%. We make two more shots we win while shooting 35%. Nobody beats anyone shooting that percentage. If we shoot 40% (not great by any stretch), we win by near double figures. Bottom line we just need to shoot better and take higher quality shots. I have more issues with the quality of shots they take than I do with the pace of play.

In a one shot contest gmac might shoot 0% I might shoot 100%

More shots, more regression to the mean

 

[SUFan44]

In a one shot contest gmac might shoot 0% I might shoot 100%

More shots, more regression to the mean

I get it. But with 6 guys, the higher the pace the poorer the quality of those shots as they become more tired. Even if we get 10 more shots, the other team will get at least 6 or 7 more and if we can't hit more than 2 or 3 of the extra shots, it will be a wash.

Unless Boeheim plays more guys, this - right or wrong - is the optimal speed for this team, IMO.

 

[longtimefan]

i think ennis hears all the praise for assist to turnover ratio and it might be affecting him a little. the optimal number of turnovers isn't zero. we can play fast and have a couple more lost possessions from turnovers or we can play slow and miss out on even more lost possessions

he's good enough to do more, he needs to be encouraged

I think it goes to Ennis--no surprise, really, as he has as much control of the offense as any SU point I can remember. Not only would I like to see him push the pace more, I'd like to see him look for his own more often. Fair is slumping, and the team needs more offensive options.