Week 3 of season-specific reminiscing -- 1997-98 | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Week 3 of season-specific reminiscing -- 1997-98

The Iona game was when I was in class so I had to hear from one of the teachers that we won on a late three. I had to work during the NM and Duke games.

I did see Blackwell’s shot to beat SJU and Fran Frascilla melting down on the court. So that was nice.
 
The Iona game was when I was in class so I had to hear from one of the teachers that we won on a late three. I had to work during the NM and Duke games.

I did see Blackwell’s shot to beat SJU and Fran Frascilla melting down on the court. So that was nice.

Now that I think about it, I was flying to Arizona with my parents the day of the Iona shot. We missed the game due to the timing of the flight, and were in the Detroit airport while the second half was going on. TV coverage in the bar near our gate was on another game. This was pre-internet / cell phones, so the only updates we could get were via the scores ticker at the bottom of the screen -- which indicated that our game was neck-and-neck.

At some point, they cut away and showed the highlight from the end of our game, with Janulis burying the shot, and we breathed a sigh of relief that we weren't bounced in the first round.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but was that the same day as when Drew hit the Valpo shot?
 
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I feel like Burgan and Kris Joseph and CJ Fair were all similar in the sense that they flourished as 2nd or 3rd scoring options, but just aren't ideal for being alpha-dog high-volume shooters.

Funny thing is, I believe Burgan was the most well-rounded of those three yet is the most universally unpopular. Probably because he had that rep for making bonehead plays, whereas Fair was regarded as a savvy player and Joseph...well, Joseph was bilingual and smiled a lot.
 
Joseph was the leading scorer on teams that won 27 and 34 games. He single-handedly beat Georgetown at the dome his SR year and was the best player at UConn in a close win late that season. I don't get the hate the board has for him. Sure everyone wanted more, but the teams he was on won more games than Fair or Burgan.
 
Joseph was the leading scorer on teams that won 27 and 34 games. He single-handedly beat Georgetown at the dome his SR year and was the best player at UConn in a close win late that season. I don't get the hate the board has for him. Sure everyone wanted more, but the teams he was on won more games than Fair or Burgan.

For me personally, Joseph is one of my favorite players of the past decade.
 
Yes it was.
If the Bryce Drew shot didn't happen, that Marius shot would have been the basket that all the shows would be showing on repeat for the last 20 years. Incredible situation.
 
Joseph was the leading scorer on teams that won 27 and 34 games. He single-handedly beat Georgetown at the dome his SR year and was the best player at UConn in a close win late that season. I don't get the hate the board has for him. Sure everyone wanted more, but the teams he was on won more games than Fair or Burgan.

I like him a lot, and I think he's one of our more popular guys for good reason.

I also think he plateaued after he smacked his head on the floor against Cincinnati midway through his junior year. He had a rep of not matching his teammates' efforts with S&C; he got bottled up a lot as a senior and his efficiency dipped (so much charging into the lane from the left elbow, heaving the ball, and throwing up his hands as the officials wouldn't give him the whistle he wanted), even that strong Georgetown game was a sub-.500 shooting night on 20+ attempts IIRC; and that Ohio State game was a tough performance from him in his last game. Fairly or not (IMO, not), that kind of game can leave a lasting impression.

On the whole, nice kid, exciting player, and also another in a long line of 3s who didn't have Carmelo Anthony's or Billy Owens's skills but had the offense run through him anyway. With better than an .850 success rate, as you note. As you also note, I think people expected a little more.
 
I don't get the hate the board has for him. Sure everyone wanted more, but the teams he was on won more games than Fair or Burgan.

Joseph had the misfortune of being able to come into games in 2010 and have nobody focus on him because of all of our other weapons. He averaged double figures off the bench.

The next season, he was supposed to be the main guy and he struggled in that role. Couple that with a second round tourney loss to Marquette and you can see why he went from board favorite to not so much.

Then, his stats actually worsened from his jr to sr years, never a recipe for love on this board (this year proving to be a prime example of that).
 
Joseph had the misfortune of being able to come into games in 2010 and have nobody focus on him because of all of our other weapons. He averaged double figures off the bench.

The next season, he was supposed to be the main guy and he struggled in that role. Couple that with a second round tourney loss to Marquette and you can see why he went from board favorite to not so much.

Then, his stats actually worsened from his jr to sr years, never a recipe for love on this board (this year proving to be a prime example of that).

He was solid his Junior year and that loss to Marquette shouldn't fall on him. Triche got hurt early and Scoop did not have a great game. He was still our leading scorer those last two years on very good teams.

It's weird reading the board that he and CJ have very similar stats yet you would think CJ is twice the player Joseph was when reading this board.
 
He was solid his Junior year and that loss to Marquette shouldn't fall on him. Triche got hurt early and Scoop did not have a great game. He was still our leading scorer those last two years on very good teams.

It's weird reading the board that he and CJ have very similar stats yet you would think CJ is twice the player Joseph was when reading this board.

I don't get why you're so determined to put down CJ. CJ's season in 2013 was better than anything Joseph ever did.

And I LIKE Joseph -- a lot.

Personally, I think both of those guys were more effective than Burgan. Some guys rise to the occasion and make positive things happen when the game is on the line, avoid critical mistakes, and make plays that help the team -- others don't in key moments. [queue someone pointing out KJ's ball handling miscue at the end of the OSU game to defend Burgan...].

But of the three, I was most confident in CJ to make a play. Joseph second, and Burgan a distant third.
 
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I don't get why you're so determined to put down CJ. CJ's season in 2013 was better than anything Joseph ever did.

And I LIKE Joseph -- a lot.

I wasn't putting down CJ at all. I just think Joseph is very underappreciated here compared to him. CJ averaged 14 and 7 in 2013 on 47% shooting. Joseph averaged 14/5/2 on 45% shooting in 2011. They were very similar players.
 
I wasn't putting down CJ at all. I just think Joseph is very underappreciated here compared to him. CJ averaged 14 and 7 in 2013 on 47% shooting. Joseph averaged 14/5/2 on 45% shooting in 2011. They were very similar players.

Similar, but CJ's exceptional three point shooting that year [as the third guy in the offense, basically] sets that year apart from Joseph's best year.

Joseph [and CJ for 2012] was a major part of two of the best teams we've had this century. That can't be overstated. He was a good player. Subjectively, I feel like CJ was a little better, but its close. And KJ had different skills -- they weren't exactly the same.
 
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Similar, but CJ's exceptional three point shooting that year [as the third guy in the offense, basically] sets that year apart from Joseph's best year.

Joseph [and CJ] was a major part of two of the best teams we've had this century. That can't be overstated. He was a good player. Subjectively, I feel like CJ was a little better, but its close. And KJ had different skills -- they weren't exactly the same.

Tiebreaker goes to the lefty.
 
He was solid his Junior year and that loss to Marquette shouldn't fall on him. Triche got hurt early and Scoop did not have a great game. He was still our leading scorer those last two years on very good teams.

It's weird reading the board that he and CJ have very similar stats yet you would think CJ is twice the player Joseph was when reading this board.
I'm not telling you what I think. I am telling you why I think he was one of the board's whipping boys.

Fair is actually an interesting comparison because his career was similar to Joseph's.

Super 6th man as a soph. Starting line-up and best season as a junior (but he went to Final Four instead of losing in the second round) and then his stats also fell his senior season as defenses really focused on stopping him.

Fair also tended to have his best games in our biggest games. Joseph tended to struggle in those situations. I think that has a lot to do with it...
 
Tiebreaker goes to the lefty.

Possible final four bias? Burgan played great in the final four as a soph.

CJ was the leading scorer on a final four team.

Joseph played on two teams that were better than both of the above teams, that unfortunately fell a bit short in the tourney.
 
I'm not telling you what I think. I am telling you why I think he was one of the board's whipping boys.

Fair is actually an interesting comparison because his career was similar to Joseph's.

Super 6th man as a soph. Starting line-up and best season as a junior (but he went to Final Four instead of losing in the second round) and then his stats also fell his senior season as defenses really focused on stopping him.

Fair also tended to have his best games in our biggest games. Joseph tended to struggle in those situations. I think that has a lot to do with it...

Good synopsis. I also think it’s worth noting that once Triche graduated and MCW went to the NBA CJ struggled with a lot of the same things Joseph did and they were just as big a part of the 2013 team as Fair IMO.
 
Possible final four bias? Burgan played great in the final four as a soph.

CJ was the leading scorer on a final four team.

Joseph, unfortunately played on two teams that were better than both of the above teams, that unfortunately fell a bit short in the tourney.

One thing I know: if Joseph had declared for the draft after his sophomore year, he'd be the unanimous best of those 3 in fans' memory.

I don't think Burgan ever reached that Final Four level of play again. Remember that Coleman challenged him for being soft and he came through with two assertive performances. 19-10 in both games, or close to it, if I remember.

For me, Burgan's probably the best shooter of the three, but the worst defender (though at least for a time he was the school's single-game record-holder for steals). He probably was relied upon as a ball-handler more than the other two ever were, but nobody ever felt comfortable with that. (This was out of necessity, since he spent three years starting alongside Cipolla or Janulis, two guards who really didn't handle the ball.) He was an OK slasher but not much of a finisher. Always seemed like the poster child for WTH turnovers, horribly-timed heat-check jumpers early in the shot clock, and that purposeless dribble at the top of the key.

Fair had a high hoops IQ, but there were times when it felt like he suffered from being a 4 in the body of a 3. Great finisher, developed a nice midrange game. Plus defender. Adequate ball-handler, but not as capable as the other two.

Joseph was a great slasher but, again, I saw his finishing nosedive as a senior as defenders' physicality overwhelmed his athleticism. Good shooter. Capable bring the ball up as needed, but never played the point forward role that Burgan did (wasn't needed, since Joseph played with talented combo guards). Unremarkable defender, but he could leak out in transition like none other. Like Fair, but not quite on the same level, a heady player.
 
One commonality among those three players: each got decent freshman year minutes on a very deep team in a way that made me think "I don't see it yet, but if Boeheim's going with a ~9-man rotation to get time for this kid, he's going to be good." Though with Fair I saw it right away because he was pretty refined for a young guy.
 
Heard the Iona game on the radio driving up to visit friends at Clarkson
 

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