What bugs me the most about this offense...

[FrancoPizza]

Our players always take ill-advised shots with nobody around the basket or cutting to the basket. We will never have a chance at offensive rebounds because we don't even try. This team's ceiling is limited to being a bubble team because we're just a mess in the halfcourt. That's on red and it should spell the end of his tenure.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Our players always take ill-advised shots with nobody around the basket or cutting to the basket. We will never have a chance at offensive rebounds because we don't even try. This team's ceiling is limited to being a bubble team because we're just a mess in the halfcourt. That's on red and it should spell the end of his tenure.

We only have two rebounders, Kyle and Sadiq. When they’re out of the game our rebounding drops off considerably.

Red has to find a way to get Betsey and White on the floor at the same time. He’s playing offense/defense with them and it’s not always working.

Also, we really need Donnie back for all things he brings to the floor. Team is really missing his skills.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Our players always take ill-advised shots with nobody around the basket or cutting to the basket. We will never have a chance at offensive rebounds because we don't even try. This team's ceiling is limited to being a bubble team because we're just a mess in the halfcourt. That's on red and it should spell the end of his tenure.

Our offense is literally a pick and roll. And no team is dumb enough to leave Kyle anymore. We were getting all those lobs against the real garbage comp, now everyone has caught on.

 

[FrancoPizza]

We only have two rebounders, Kyle and Sadiq. When they’re out of the game our rebounding drops off considerably.

Red has to find a way to get Betsey and White on the floor at the same time. He’s playing offense/defense with them and it’s not always working.

Also, we really need Donnie back for all things he brings to the floor. Team is really missing his skills.

That doesn't explain why we literally have all 4 players 20 feet away from the hoop when a shot goes up. They're not even thinking about the rebound. It's almost like we're afraid of the other team beating us in transition. Which is stupid.

 

[Milo1384]

That doesn't explain why we literally have all 4 players 20 feet away from the hoop when a shot goes up. They're not even thinking about the rebound. It's almost like we're afraid of the other team beating us in transition. Which is stupid.

I think it has to do with the offensive 'scheme' .. 4 out, 5 out sets with high ball screens.. shooters in the wings/corners so if we can get into the lane, it opens the outside. Devo talked about it quite a bit last night about getting into the lane & then looking for shooters.

SU also likes to run some 'zoom' action sets with dribble drive handoffs & off ball screens, so guys are positioned around the 3 pt line.

 

[orangepassion]

I don't understand why we take the one guy in our starting lineup who can't shoot 3's (Kyle) and have him set a pick 30 feet from the basket. Why not have one of our forwards do it who are a threat from there and have Kyle near the basket where he can do damage?

 

[007]

I don't understand why we take the one guy in our starting lineup who can't shoot 3's (Kyle) and have him set a pick 30 feet from the basket. Why not have one of our forwards do it who are a threat from there and have Kyle near the basket where he can do damage?

Because they are trying to drag the 5 defender out of the lane.

The bigger issue, to me anyway, is the lack of off ball and weak side screening, back picks, weak side cuts to the basket, screening the screener... those kind of concepts.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Dribble hand offs seem to be automatic blocking calls against the screener. It’s become a cop out call for officials. It can be very effective, but timing has to be nearly perfect to avoid the foul call.

 

[orangepassion]

Because they are trying to drag the 5 defender out of the lane.

The bigger issue, to me anyway, is the lack of off ball and weak side screening, back picks, weak side cuts to the basket, screening the screener... those kind of concepts.

What good is that if they ignore Kyle and our guys aren't going to the basket?

 

[littlereg]

Because they are trying to drag the 5 defender out of the lane.

The bigger issue, to me anyway, is the lack of off ball and weak side screening, back picks, weak side cuts to the basket, screening the screener... those kind of concepts.

Yeah except the problem with this is who the hell looked at this roster and thought that would be a complimenting offensive gameplan? We have like one maybe two guys who can actually iso, penetrate and attack into the lane. Your second point I completely agree and that plays into the first issue.

 

[23Zone]

This song should be playing whenever we go to the free-throw line

 

[Lame-0]

Yeah except the problem with this is who the hell looked at this roster and thought that would be a complimenting offensive gameplan? We have like one maybe two guys who can actually iso, penetrate and attack into the lane. Your second point I completely agree and that plays into the first issue.

Driving and attacking the hoop or dishing are a primary part of all of JJ's, George's and Kingz' games.

 

[007]

What good is that if they ignore Kyle and our guys aren't going to the basket?

St Joe's kept the 5 in the lane on all those high screens. For the most part, our guards got into the lane fairly consistently off that action. I think that accounts for some of the good looks we got from 3. You have to be able to counter off of what the D is doing.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that the half court O is good. It is lacking the concepts I mentioned above. But the idea that the high screen/PR action is useless is not accurate.

 

[orangepassion]

St Joe's kept the 5 in the lane on all those high screens. For the most part, our guards got into the lane fairly consistently off that action. I think that accounts for some of the good looks we got from 3. You have to be able to counter off of what the D is doing.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that the half court O is good. It is lacking the concepts I mentioned above. But the idea that the high screen/PR action is useless is not accurate.

Think it would be better if we had Freeman, White or Betsey set the pick. Can even have Kingz do it.

 

[007]

Think it would be better if we had Freeman, White or Betsey set the pick. Can even have Kingz do it.

I get what you saying. I agree that having shooters setting high screens is an option that makes sense.

In the context of the above discussion, St. Joe's would have defended those screens differently because they weren't being set by the 5.

 

[RF2044]

Because they are trying to drag the 5 defender out of the lane.

The bigger issue, to me anyway, is the lack of off ball and weak side screening, back picks, weak side cuts to the basket, screening the screener... those kind of concepts.

Agreed.

Those half court offensive concepts are integral for most teams generating quality shot attempts. We do very little of that.

Beyond high ball screens, and a nomial P&R.

Coaching, IMO. The "concept" seems to be: there isn't one. Generate defensive pressure to potentially get easy scoring opportunities in transition, and hope that Betsey, Kingz, or Kiyan is hot from outside. But not much about doing the little things you reference above, 007.

 

[OrangeinNH]

I can’t remember if anyone other than Kingz and Betsey made a jumpshot last night? Is that possible? I’m grateful that JJ has tried to reign in his shot attempts, and for the most part he relied on his right side of the lane runners, but he has become a dreadful shooter (sad to see that whatever happened to his shoulder as a freshman really has ruined his basketball career). It’s great to space the floor, but when you can help off of so many guys, it makes for a slog on offense.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I think it has to do with the offensive 'scheme' .. 4 out, 5 out sets with high ball screens.. shooters in the wings/corners so if we can get into the lane, it opens the outside. Devo talked about it quite a bit last night about getting into the lane & then looking for shooters.

SU also likes to run some 'zoom' action sets with dribble drive handoffs & off ball screens, so guys are positioned around the 3 pt line.

Not a good design when offensive rebounds might give us an additional 6-8 points/game simply on statistical averages.

 

[stuckinbig11]

I learned that when a shot went up, I should head toward the hoop and box out. What I am seeing is that nobody heads toward the hoop; they must think that all shots are going to be good and there will be no rebound.

 

[DomeHolmes]

There are a few other problems with the offense we are running not yet mentioned.

-1st about Sadiq, it was said he was a rebounder and needed to be on the floor, but he is what we call a “ball watcher”, so is Kiyan. When a shot goes up from the perimeter. They just watch it. They rarely crash the glass. For such a good athlete, his (Sadiq’s)rebounds per 40 minutes is not very good. Especially offensively. For a comparison, Kyle has three times as many offensive rebounds per 40 minutes as Sadiq. (And 5x blocks) He combined with Kiyan for a total of two rebounds in 39 minutes. That’s completely unacceptable. Red needs to light a fire under their ass.

Second, their center was probably the second best defensive center after Kansas that we’ve played. He was very good, but so was their rotational help. Every time he stepped out on someone driving the lane, someone rotated to take away a dump down to Kyle. The problem we have is Kiyan, who has the second fewest minutes out of this group, of George, Kingz, JJ, and Betsey, has more than twice as many free throws as any of them. He is the only one actually drawing contact. JJ gets into the lane, then throws up a floater over the shot blocker or secondary help but never initiates contact. George is good with an open lane, but only seems to drive when it’s a clear path. Kingz went hard to the basket against Tennessee, but not much else. And It’s not Betseys game.

Kyle has showed that he is capable of being a crafty and patient low post scorer on occasion and actually does a decent job kicking out too, but we don’t really run offense through him. I think it’s something we need to do more of. But you could tell by watching the game yesterday, The scouting report is out on us. We are a one trick pony on offense. Their center stayed home, patrolled the paint and allowed them guard 4 out. Not many teams will have a center as capable as Saint Joe’s to do what they did, however. And eventually, he fouled out, not because he was foul, prone, just because he was doing everything for them on defense, and it caught up with him.

Although I’m sure it’s been mentioned somewhere before, but Kingz and Betsy shot 60% (6-10) from three and 20% (2-10) from the foul line. That that’s probably never happened in the history of basketball.

 

[powdersmack]

The problem we have is Kiyan, who has the second fewest minutes out of this group, of George, Kingz, JJ, and Betsey, has more than twice as many free throws as any of them. He is the only one actually drawing contact. JJ gets into the lane, then throws up a floater over the shot blocker or secondary help but never initiates contact.

Well, to be fair, do we really want more JJ at the line?

 

[DomeHolmes]

Well, to be fair, do we really want more JJ at the line?

I was thinking that as I was typing it. That is a double edged sword for sure.

 

[Wrinkle]

Guards guards guards. Been a problem for years now. Our best offensive player is Kyle. I love Kyle and everything he brings, but if he's your best offensive player, your offensive personnel sucks bro

 

[ar inj]

SU got killed on the boards the first half of the first half. Out rebounded by 10 at one point but cut the deficit to 3 by halftime. In the second half they had evened things up and then AA had them try to play a zone and St. Joe’s rebounded every one of their misses. I think they had 4 offensive rebounds on one possession while the SU goes ran around like crazy. And it just kept getting worse. No more zone please except just maybe one possession here or there every third game.

 

[Fly Rodder]

It's not even just sets and plays, there's more to offense sets. They need to move with purpose, make crisp cuts and passes. So much basketball offense is dependent on a beating the defense by split seconds. Every D1 team gets bad shots that drop in, but I'd rather get 9 good looks and a prayer than 5 good looks and 5 prayers. SU relies waaaaaay too much on these basic plays that allow for flexibility, but the players don't really execute all that well and end up with wasted possessions.

It's how many points that they make per possession that eventually stretches leads out and wins games.