Whats changed in the offense?

[Cusefan69]

Would love an actual interview with Babers or even former players on offense about how HCDFBs offense has changed in the years he has been here. What has driven that change?

1. We have had a few OCs. Lewis, Lynch and Gilbert. Lewis was passing coordinator and Lynch was run game coordinator? Or were they just Co OCs?
2. My understanding from someone in the know was that Dino is very involved in the offense and game day calls. What does that mean though? That he helped script the first 20 plays and voiced recommendations over the headset? It would be interesting to know.
3. Early versions of his offense saw more sideline throws and slants. Irv had allot of catches that way.
4. Definitely some TE usage but not overwhelming. TEs dont look at Dinos offense and think they will get 50 catches a year.
5. Early years very little middle of the field use.
6. Running game pretty vanilla.
7. Last couple years we seem to be looking deep more often, less sideline and slants. Using middle of the field more. TE usage less this year with Gilbert.

My intent with this thread is to just confirm how its morphed and maybe why. Is it about the players? Skillsets? Makeup of youth and experience is different each year? New philosophy? Not intending this to be a slam thread, more for observations and comparisons.

 

[CU44SE]

I remember in Babers early years watching one of the games and the announcers were discussing that the 3 of them discuss on the headsets what to call (lynch, babers, Lewis). The way it was explained, was the 3 of them would almost take turns. So if someone threw out a play, I believe babers had final say but it was if three of them were taking turns calling the plays. I do not know if that is still happening, but I doubt he brought in Gilbert from being a head coach not to have total control of the offense.

 

[Chip]

I remember in Babers early years watching one of the games and the announcers were discussing that the 3 of them discuss on the headsets what to call (lynch, babers, Lewis). The way it was explained, was the 3 of them would almost take turns. So if someone threw out a play, I believe babers had final say but it was if three of them were taking turns calling the plays. I do not know if that is still happening, but I doubt he brought in Gilbert from being a head coach not to have total control of the offense.

How do you have time for that, especially when going fast? Seems hard to do even if you're milking the play clock.

 

[CU44SE]

How do you have time for that, especially when going fast? Seems hard to do even if you're milking the play clock.

I think that’s how they went fast. Because 3 people were throwing out plays. So it wasn’t just one person. IMO that doesn’t help the flow of the play calling. But we are not nearly as fast as when he first came here. But we need to get first downs to play fast, and that is not happening with any consistency.

 

[syrBossHogg]

How do you have time for that, especially when going fast? Seems hard to do even if you're milking the play clock.

I don't think this offense has a ton of actual plays to call, there's lots of option routes the WRs run based on the coverage. Both the WRs and the QB have to be on the same page and be able to read correctly.

 

[Ozone!]

Why have an OC if the HC is going to control the play calling and it's horribly ineffective?
HCDB needs his coordinator's coach, during the games and correct for ineffective strategy during game by going through the coordinators; not by over ruling calls, during the game action.

 

[CuseGrad94]

To me it starts and ends with the offensive line. You can not do ANYTHING you want if the line can’t hold a block for 4-5 seconds. First Dino has said this since he arrived this offense starts with the run game. The run in this offense like almost all need to have a threat of the run to freeze the LB and Safeties for a few seconds and allows you to get the ball down field. You don’t have to have the defense honor the run and you are in trouble. From there this offense CAN NOT go three and out all the time, because you have zero shot to win because you defense is toast, what do you do to adjust and give your defense rest? Slow it down, and try to give your defense a rest. A few years ago people thought Alabama’s D was slipping, they weren’t, they we just on the field ALL THE TIME. I know some people went to the LSU game a few years ago and you could see LSU’s D gassed on the field in the 4th qtr, SU just couldn’t get over the hump. The offense works (almost any offense works) when your line can block. As complicated as we like to think football is today, still starts in the trenches IMO.

 

[Cusefan69]

To me it starts and ends with the offensive line. You can not do ANYTHING you want if the line can’t hold a block for 4-5 seconds. First Dino has said this since he arrived this offense starts with the run game. The run in this offense like almost all need to have a threat of the run to freeze the LB and Safeties for a few seconds and allows you to get the ball down field. You don’t have to have the defense honor the run and you are in trouble. From there this offense CAN NOT go three and out all the time, because you have zero shot to win because you defense is toast, what do you do to adjust and give your defense rest? Slow it down, and try to give your defense a rest. A few years ago people thought Alabama’s D was slipping, they weren’t, they we just on the field ALL THE TIME. I know some people went to the LSU game a few years ago and you could see LSU’s D gassed on the field in the 4th qtr, SU just couldn’t get over the hump. The offense works (almost any offense works) when your line can block. As complicated as we like to think football is today, still starts in the trenches IMO.

Completely agree everything starts in the trenches. I have been banging that drum for years. That said even Ed's final year he was sacked I believe 38 times. But the pace seemed faster and the play calls seemed different. Per my recollection the passing game specifically feels different now compared to when Dino first arrived. Don't know. Maybe I'm wrong but it feels different.

 

[Killdozer]

This would be a great thread for Tommy's dad to give his thoughts.

 

[gbo]

To me it starts and ends with the offensive line. You can not do ANYTHING you want if the line can’t hold a block for 4-5 seconds. First Dino has said this since he arrived this offense starts with the run game. The run in this offense like almost all need to have a threat of the run to freeze the LB and Safeties for a few seconds and allows you to get the ball down field. You don’t have to have the defense honor the run and you are in trouble. From there this offense CAN NOT go three and out all the time, because you have zero shot to win because you defense is toast, what do you do to adjust and give your defense rest? Slow it down, and try to give your defense a rest. A few years ago people thought Alabama’s D was slipping, they weren’t, they we just on the field ALL THE TIME. I know some people went to the LSU game a few years ago and you could see LSU’s D gassed on the field in the 4th qtr, SU just couldn’t get over the hump. The offense works (almost any offense works) when your line can block. As complicated as we like to think football is today, still starts in the trenches IMO.

This 100%. It doesn't matter how good your playmakers are and how great your scheme is...if you can't block you can't win.

 

[dollarbill44]

This 100%. It doesn't matter how good your playmakers are and how great your scheme is...if you can't block you can't win.

I don't think we blocked particularly well in the 10-3 season, but Dungey called his own name a lot in the run game and didn't hesitate to tuck it and go if there wasn't good protection. He also seemed a lot more confident throwing the ball. The slants have to be quick throws or it disappears. I don't know why TD doesn't make that throw more often- it's been available. Rex makes the throws (with very mixed results). But, because TD doesn't make the quick throws very often, he has to hold the ball for the deeper routes to get open and that's where the weakness of the OL kicks in, leading to numerous sacks.
TD is the best passer we've had in a long time, but he seems to be very deliberate with his reads or he doesn't trust what he sees. I get it, because a poorly thrown, or tipped, slant is susceptible to a pick 6, but you just have to be confident.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Tempo has lost some of its effectiveness because other teams use it more and substitution rules have changed.

 

[Cuse69]

Tempo has lost some of its effectiveness because other teams use it more and substitution rules have changed.

Yup, tempo isn't as big of a deal as it was a few years ago, just look at offense in the SEC these days, football evolves and we have not

 

[TheCusian]

IMO:

1. The ACC and CFB as a whole has figured out how to play the Baylor O enough to make it less effective.
2. It worked in that it was a series of simple reads, spread formations, and tempo.
3. Lewis was more inventive and was able to "riff" off the original concepts enough to make it work. Lynch was more of a caretaker type.
4. Sterlin might be more creative but it's hard to say because:
5. If you can't block in any system, it blows $%&* up.

Which all leads me to my central working theme: This year is near impossible to get a read on any of the new hires or tweaks to a system (ie. exhibition season, throwaway year, hold onto your recruits, etc). What they can see and accomplish is *who* can do some things (Tucker and Queely on O, lots of guys on D) and get them experience.

Where it all goes wrong is if we stink so bad it blows up the lockers room and public support for Dino, which seems like it's happening unfortunately

 

[Pyle]

What is it about the OL that is the issue? I remember when Dino was first hired, he discussed a change in recruiting philosophy regarding the OL. He said he wants tall, lanky types who can move quickly. I don't follow recruiting enough, and it seems we have some beef on the roster but for those who really follow recruiting, has there actually been a fundamental shift in the type of OL we get compared to the days of recuriting Pugh/Tiller types?