Why do baseline slides suck in our 'vaunted' zone

[kingtidge]

I guess I kinda know why...

I love Joseph for his 29 pts. last night and his offense - kudos on the career high

But it's not all good... his refusal to slide and contest his man on the baseline arc when launching threes is maddening...

How many points did we give back on uncontested jumpers on the baseline?

It's lazy... plain an simple.

Couple that with Fair sliding late on the opposite side far too often and we have a baseline D problem, folks.

Cripes, Fab actually left the key near the end of the game to late slide and try contest a shot by Joseph's mark...

Oddly, Joseph seems to stand around mid-key level just outside the lines... and it tends to be the same place he stands around when he's ball watching and not jumping for rebounds.

If we can't get the required effort on D or boards from him in a home conference game against G-Town, I don't know why we should expect it come tourney time...

Certainly 29 pts. can cure a lot of ills...

But the D lapses and rebounds are looking like a major achillies heel for this team.

I know we always hit a mid-season patch where we aren't firing on all cylinders... and we're winning - so not chicken littling here...

Just sucks that our deficiencies appear mental/focus and effort related.

We need some better discipline.

 

[iommi]

Can I like a post 20x? Great job. Bravo.

 

[Dcuse]

wow. just wow

 

[netman99]

That about nails it!!!!

 

[BlackSquirrels]

Maybe Joseph's responsibilities in the zone are different from what you think they are? I won't deny that Joseph has had some bad defensive performances during his career at SU, but an article on si.com found he has been the best wing defender in the zone this year. He's also been a mainstay on two very good defensive teams.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

The wings in our zone have always been a weak spot. It even took Wes Johnson about 3/4 of the season to become good out there. I truly think Kris believes defense is just for rest. How many lazy "hand up" but no body movement close-outs do we see from him? Maddening...

 

[kingtidge]

Maybe Joseph's responsibilities in the zone are different from what you think they are? I won't deny that Joseph has had some bad defensive performances during his career at SU, but an article on si.com found he has been the best wing defender in the zone this year. He's also been a mainstay on two very good defensive teams.

I hear that.

Our D (and Joseph's play in it) has not been bad all year... The D has just been worse in the last few games... and the problems I mentioned seem focus and effort-related.

Also, I don't argue with that statement that he's been the best wing defender YTD... but Fair and Southerland haven't been all that great either... especially in recent games. Fair was the best of three last night on D and actually scrapped for rebounds, blocked shots, etc. He get's an A for effort for sure. Box Lines.

Believe me - Joseph deserves a lot of cred for winning that game with a career high 29-pt thwack-down... I guess I just want to see him (as a senior and hopefully leader) not dog it on D... it just sets a bad example for the younger guys...

 

[007]

I guess I kinda know why...

I love Joseph for his 29 pts. last night and his offense - kudos on the career high

But it's not all good... his refusal to slide and contest his man on the baseline arc when launching threes is maddening...

How many points did we give back on uncontested jumpers on the baseline?

It's lazy... plain an simple.

Couple that with Fair sliding late on the opposite side far too often and we have a baseline D problem, folks.

Cripes, Fab actually left the key near the end of the game to late slide and try contest a shot by Joseph's mark...

Oddly, Joseph seems to stand around mid-key level just outside the lines... and it tends to be the same place he stands around when he's ball watching and not jumping for rebounds.

If we can't get the required effort on D or boards from him in a home conference game against G-Town, I don't know why we should expect it come tourney time...

Certainly 29 pts. can cure a lot of ills...

But the D lapses and rebounds are looking like a major achillies heel for this team.

I know we always hit a mid-season patch where we aren't firing on all cylinders... and we're winning - so not chicken littling here...

Just sucks that our deficiencies appear mental/focus and effort related.

We need some better discipline.

Have you ever coached a 2-3 zone? I am not sure what area of the court you are referring to with "refusal to slide and contest his man on the baseline arc." But I can tell you that the strong side forward in JB's 2-3 is covering ground from above the foul line extended, to well out beyond the 3 point line, and to the deep corner. The "short corner" - an area approximately 10 feet extended from the low block - is a vulnerable point in any 2-3 zone, and even more so the way SU plays. Are these the baseline jumpers you are referring to? If so, that rotation is not solely the wings responsibility, especially when the ball is entered from the wing. Those rotations are extremely difficult to make and SU's forte is having the length and speed to effectively cover a huge amount of space. But, they can't be everywhere.

I have absolutely no issue with any of the rotations in the zone. This is a dominating defense that is holding teams to .383 shooting percentage for the year, and that number is INFLATED by the second and third opportunities from in close.

I don't necessarily disagree with the "effort" issue you raise. But that effort is impacting defensive rebounding and has little to do with "slides" within the zone.

 

[kingtidge]

Have you ever coached a 2-3 zone? I am not sure what area of the court you are referring to with "refusal to slide and contest his man on the baseline arc." But I can tell you that the strong side forward in JB's 2-3 is covering ground from above the foul line extended, to well out beyond the 3 point line, and to the deep corner. The "short corner" - an area approximately 10 feet extended from the low block - is a vulnerable point in any 2-3 zone, and even more so the way SU plays. Are these the baseline jumpers you are referring to? If so, that rotation is not solely the wings responsibility, especially when the ball is entered from the wing. Those rotations are extremely difficult to make and SU's forte is having the length and speed to effectively cover a huge amount of space. But, they can't be everywhere.

I have absolutely no issue with any of the rotations in the zone. This is a dominating defense that is holding teams to .383 shooting percentage for the year, and that number is INFLATED by the second and third opportunities from in close.

I don't necessarily disagree with the "effort" issue you raise. But that effort is impacting defensive rebounding and has little to do with "slides" within the zone.

I understand the slide responsibility changes based on ball movement.

I also understand that fluid and fast ball movement can lead to late slides and open looks - particularly weak side.

My issue is when we simply don't slide at all... or the when slide assignment is picked-up on so late that it's a half effort jog as the ball is already released before the defender is close to position.

I stand by my comments... Watch last night's game again and you will see multiple instances of both issues on baseline jumpers.

 

[AZOrange]

I stand by my comments... Watch last night's game again and you will see multiple instances of both issues on baseline jumpers.

JB wants the opponent to go baseline. They lure them into that corner because it is no man's land. Our biggest defensive "weakness" if you can call it that last night was the foul line extended area where that freshman was killing us.