Why people need to withhold judgment.

[cuse309]

Coaches first 2 years in a "rebuild"

Bill Snyder- 1-10 and 5-6
Coach Mac 4-6-1 and 2-9
Jim Harbaugh (Stanford) 4-8 and 5-7
Art Briles (Baylor) 4-8 and 4-8
Clawson 3-9 and 3-9
Mike Leach (Wash. St.) 3-9 and 6-7 (followed by another 3-9)
Fitzgerald (Northwestern) 4-8 and 6-6
Frank Beamer 2-9 and 3-8


These are just some pretty recent guys off the top of my head.
These coaches all began to win consistently in year 3 or after. It is almost always a rule in college, that it takes a good 3-4 years to win consistently when trying to rebuild a team that has been consistently losing.
Is Dino the man? Remains to be seen, but to pass judgment now is awfully short sighted. At least we can say Dino is right on track at this point.

 

[upperdeck]

people look at records when they should be looking at how we are competing. we kick a couple FGs and we are a bowl team. we have played about 8 bad quarters all year on D and its depressing now, but huge improvement on the field if not the record.

FSU loses a Qb and goes from NT contender to scrapping to 6 wins for a bowl, why do we expect any better when our QB goes out. Clemson couldnt beat us without an elite QB and they have all the talent in the world at every position.

 

[qdawgg]

Coaches first 2 years in a "rebuild"

Bill Snyder- 1-10 and 5-6
Coach Mac 4-6-1 and 2-9
Jim Harbaugh (Stanford) 4-8 and 5-7
Art Briles (Baylor) 4-8 and 4-8
Clawson 3-9 and 3-9
Mike Leach (Wash. St.) 3-9 and 6-7 (followed by another 3-9)
Fitzgerald (Northwestern) 4-8 and 6-6
Frank Beamer 2-9 and 3-8


These are just some pretty recent guys off the top of my head.
These coaches all began to win consistently in year 3 or after. It is almost always a rule in college, that it takes a good 3-4 years to win consistently when trying to rebuild a team that has been consistently losing.
Is Dino the man? Remains to be seen, but to pass judgment now is awfully short sighted. At least we can say Dino is right on track at this point.

These types of lists are pretty pointless. I think DB is the guy we need but you could easily find records of coaches who started out with bad records and then continued with bad records. Comparing DB in year 2 to coaches who were successful means absolutely nothing. DB could easily do what they did or have 2 more years of 3 - 5 win seasons. We don't know yet. My guess is that won't happen but comparing results of other coaches doesn't mean in any way that that is the trajectory that is definitely going to happen here.

 

[PoppyHart]

Coaches first 2 years in a "rebuild"

Bill Snyder- 1-10 and 5-6
Coach Mac 4-6-1 and 2-9
Jim Harbaugh (Stanford) 4-8 and 5-7
Art Briles (Baylor) 4-8 and 4-8
Clawson 3-9 and 3-9
Mike Leach (Wash. St.) 3-9 and 6-7 (followed by another 3-9)
Fitzgerald (Northwestern) 4-8 and 6-6
Frank Beamer 2-9 and 3-8


These are just some pretty recent guys off the top of my head.
These coaches all began to win consistently in year 3 or after. It is almost always a rule in college, that it takes a good 3-4 years to win consistently when trying to rebuild a team that has been consistently losing.
Is Dino the man? Remains to be seen, but to pass judgment now is awfully short sighted. At least we can say Dino is right on track at this point.

How many of these guys received multi-year extensions by the end of year two? I’m guessing none (though wouldn’t be surprised if Harbaugh & Fitz did).

 

[tbonezone]

no where have i called for dino's head. let's give him a chance. but all the extension talk after every single game is a bit over the top imo. play out the contract and then evaluate the situation fully and work out fair price. i really hope he sticks around.

 

[cuse309]

These types of lists are pretty pointless. I think DB is the guy we need but you could easily find records of coaches who started out with bad records and then continued with bad records. Comparing DB in year 2 to coaches who were successful means absolutely nothing. DB could easily do what they did or have 2 more years of 3 - 5 win seasons. We don't know yet. My guess is that won't happen but comparing results of other coaches doesn't mean in any way that that is the trajectory that is definitely going to happen here.

It's only pointless if you miss the point, which apparently you did.
The name of the thread is "why people need to withhold judgment" People are drawing conclusions on whether or not Dino is the guy to turn this around, and the list is simply to show that you can not judge the long term success of a coach or program based on 2 seasons records. Further, it shows that when you are rebuilding a dumpster fire of a program, which all the ones listed were, it takes at least 3-4 years before the team starts to win 6+ games consistently.
If my point was that having a bad record for 2 years means you will end up being a good coach, then I guess the list would be useless, but that wasn't the point.

 

[OrangePA]

Coaches first 2 years in a "rebuild"

Bill Snyder- 1-10 and 5-6
Coach Mac 4-6-1 and 2-9
Jim Harbaugh (Stanford) 4-8 and 5-7
Art Briles (Baylor) 4-8 and 4-8
Clawson 3-9 and 3-9
Mike Leach (Wash. St.) 3-9 and 6-7 (followed by another 3-9)
Fitzgerald (Northwestern) 4-8 and 6-6
Frank Beamer 2-9 and 3-8


These are just some pretty recent guys off the top of my head.
These coaches all began to win consistently in year 3 or after. It is almost always a rule in college, that it takes a good 3-4 years to win consistently when trying to rebuild a team that has been consistently losing.
Is Dino the man? Remains to be seen, but to pass judgment now is awfully short sighted. At least we can say Dino is right on track at this point.

Good post.

Patience is a virtue when it comes to running a major athletic organization!

 

[Ish88888]

people look at records when they should be looking at how we are competing. we kick a couple FGs and we are a bowl team. we have played about 8 bad quarters all year on D and its depressing now, but huge improvement on the field if not the record.

FSU loses a Qb and goes from NT contender to scrapping to 6 wins for a bowl, why do we expect any better when our QB goes out. Clemson couldnt beat us without an elite QB and they have all the talent in the world at every position.

There was an improvement going on midyear, the Clemson through FSU stretch. Yes, there was. However, the last 2 games were disturbing. Your kids cant pack it in when the starter goes down, rather thats a time to rally and play with your hair on fire.

 

[SoBristol]

It isn't w/l records in years 1 and 2 that predict where the program is heading. The record in those year is heavily determined by the hold-over players, inherited from the prior regime. The core of the current defense is Shafer's guys; same on offense which largely depends on Dungey, Ishmael, Phillips, Conway, McGloster, Adams. Of course, the new staff can adjust S&C and coach up the inherited players -- but still, the quality/depth of what Babers' inherited is a big factor. Same was true at BGSU, where Babers inherited a talented group on offense and rode that group to a big second season there -- it wasn't his recruiting that produced those wins.

What you need to assess -- how is Babers doing in bringing in new talent, and particularly traditional recruiting from high schools? Is he winning more recruiting battles? Is the roster getting better year to year? How much do you like his 2017 redshirts, and the composition of the 2018 class? With Coach Mac, despite the w/l records in his first seasons, you could see that he was winning on the recruiting trail. And the talent got better year to year.