yep, perfect storm

[pearl31]

Having slept on it, I think it was a sort of perfect storm as a couple of people surmised yesterday...

1) JB started making it clear to his inner circle (incl Hop) that he was not about to accept some timeline imposed by the school which was all but imposed to them by the NCAA. No way, not with the program he built. It wasn't even about necessarily wanting to coach more years, it was about the principle of it and him doing things on his terms.
2) At the same time as 1, Wildhack indicated, whether implied or explicitly, that he wasn't thrilled with Hopkins as the next coach. Along with this, a sizable segment of the fanbase (incl boosters, etc as Iommi related) were vocal about it not being Hop.

3) So with #s 1 and 2 in place, the UW job appeared and Hop either inquired or was contacted. Big $$, other factors (including those noted above) made it an opportunity he couldn't pass up.

And so here we are now. I don't think JB particularly wants to coach beyond next year and I certainly don't think Wildhack/Syverud want him to. But in the wake of Hop's sudden departure they had to come out with the contract extension press release to at least give the appearance of short-term stability.

Some have surmised this was all driven by JB yearning to coach at least 3 more years, and it will be some kind of newly energized JB. I don't think so. I think Hop has provided both parties with one of those "careful what you wish for" scenarios.

 

[Ryand877]

Having slept on it, I think it was a sort of perfect storm as a couple of people surmised yesterday...

1) JB started making it clear to his inner circle (incl Hop) that he was not about to accept some timeline imposed by the school which was all but imposed to them by the NCAA. No way, not with the program he built. It wasn't even about necessarily wanting to coach more years, it was about the principle of it and him doing things on his terms.
2) At the same time as 1, Wildhack indicated, whether implied or explicitly, that he wasn't thrilled with Hopkins as the next coach. Along with this, a sizable segment of the fanbase (incl boosters, etc as Iommi related) were vocal about it not being Hop.

3) So with #s 1 and 2 in place, the UW job appeared and Hop either inquired or was contacted. Big $$, other factors (including those noted above) made it an opportunity he couldn't pass up.

And so here we are now. I don't think JB particularly wants to coach beyond next year and I certainly don't think Wildhack/Syverud want him to. But in the wake of Hop's sudden departure they had to come out with the contract extension press release to at least give the appearance of short-term stability.

Some have surmised this was all driven by JB yearning to coach at least 3 more years, and it will be some kind of newly energized JB. I don't think so. I think Hop has provided both parties with one of those "careful what you wish for" scenarios.

Do we know for sure that Wildhack indicated or implied this about Hop?

 

[CusefanATL]

Having slept on it, I think it was a sort of perfect storm as a couple of people surmised yesterday...

1) JB started making it clear to his inner circle (incl Hop) that he was not about to accept some timeline imposed by the school which was all but imposed to them by the NCAA. No way, not with the program he built. It wasn't even about necessarily wanting to coach more years, it was about the principle of it and him doing things on his terms.
2) At the same time as 1, Wildhack indicated, whether implied or explicitly, that he wasn't thrilled with Hopkins as the next coach. Along with this, a sizable segment of the fanbase (incl boosters, etc as Iommi related) were vocal about it not being Hop.

3) So with #s 1 and 2 in place, the UW job appeared and Hop either inquired or was contacted. Big $$, other factors (including those noted above) made it an opportunity he couldn't pass up.

And so here we are now. I don't think JB particularly wants to coach beyond next year and I certainly don't think Wildhack/Syverud want him to. But in the wake of Hop's sudden departure they had to come out with the contract extension press release to at least give the appearance of short-term stability.

Some have surmised this was all driven by JB yearning to coach at least 3 more years, and it will be some kind of newly energized JB. I don't think so. I think Hop has provided both parties with one of those "careful what you wish for" scenarios.

Can you point me in the direction of iommi's post?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think it's as simple as JB didn't want to leave.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

JB is not a quitter.

The team is a mess right now.

Can you blame JB for not wanting to walk away and dump everything on someone else's desk.

 

[BlackSquirrels]

I could be wrong, but I think it's more likely that Boeheim wants to coach (at least) 5 more years than he wants to coach one more year.

 

[CusefanATL]

JB is not a quitter.

The team is a mess right now.

Can you blame JB for not wanting to walk away and dump everything on someone else's desk.

Me dont think team is as much of mess as most do.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think the Executive Chef wasn't interested in changing up his recipes in favor of the sous chef's leanings.

And then the sous chef was offered his own restaurant and said okay.

 

[Lucid]

JB is not a quitter.

The team is a mess right now.

Can you blame JB for not wanting to walk away and dump everything on someone else's desk.

If this is true, and I believe it is, then the next logical supposition is that JB will do everything in his not inconsequential power to fix the mess, right the ship, or whatever metaphor you might prefer. I like that scenario.

 

[NKR1978]

I think the Executive Chef wasn't interested in changing up his recipes in favor of the sous chef's leanings.

And then the sous chef was offered his own restaurant and said okay.

This is almost the plot of Chef.

 

[RF2044]

I could be wrong, but I think it's more likely that Boeheim wants to coach (at least) 5 more years than he wants to coach one more year.

That's the million dollar question.

I don't read much into the extension -- it had to happen, otherwise the situation would be compounded by him being a lame duck on top of everything. The extension enables him to recruit without that stigma [on paper].

But is he intending to stick it out for 5 years, or is this just a stop gap measure while Wildhack gets his list together, sticking to the original timeline? Hard to say.

Maybe this lights a fire under Boeheim. I think we'll see a lot based upon who he brings in on the staff. Hard to rekindle that drive when you're his age. He's a competitor, though, so maybe this will get things back on track.

If not, and he DOES plan on sticking around for multiple years and things keep going the way that they have on the recruiting trail, then he's going to slouch toward the finish line with each year being more frustrating than the last. Hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[jordoo]

Who is hired to fill the open vacancy followed by how SU closes the 17 class and pursues the 18 class this spring and summer will likely answer most of our questions. Do we hire a guy with AAU connections to help recruiting? Does JB take a more hands on approach to recruiting?

 

[longislandcuse]

Me dont think team is as much of mess as most do.

It's really not.

A new, energetic coach could come in with the opportunity to try to sell Lydon on coming back and having a surefire 1st Round pick manning the 2G spot.

There are still some big names out there that any new coach could go after along with the grad transfer market.

Even if next year is a mess, they will have one of the biggest fan bases with the best facilities in the most viewed conference in the country at their disposal.

We need to stop acting like JB is our only hope. He made this program but that doesn't mean somebody else can't take it to new heights.

 

[CuseCactus]

This is a defining and wonderful opportunity for both Syverud and Wildhack - and for the University. I, for one, am very happy.

Hopkins gets a chance to shine without the pressure of replacing a legend. Washington is a fantastic program with substantial upside. Good for him!

And Syracuse, in addition to "refreshing" the Dome, gets to bring in a talented - and experienced head coach.

Football is on the upswing. Babers was/is a terrific hire.

The only wrinkle - and it's potentially a big one - is how long does JB linger?

All things being equal, I think the future is brighter today for all involved. Go Cuse!

 

[NKR1978]

It's really not.

A new, energetic coach could come in with the opportunity to try to sell Lydon on coming back and having a surefire 1st Round pick manning the 2G spot.

There are still some big names out there that any new coach could go after along with the grad transfer market.

Even if next year is a mess, they will have one of the biggest fan bases with the best facilities in the most viewed conference in the country at their disposal.

We need to stop acting like JB is our only hope. He made this program but that doesn't mean somebody else can't take it to new heights.

I don't think JB is our only hope, and I definitely don't think Hop was.

I have issues with his stubbornness, but I honestly don't think he's going to end his career on this downward slide. He should be able to get the chance to turn it around in the next two years.

We'll have an idea of what to expect based on who he hires. If he promotes from within or hires an Otis Hill type, then What? That will shake my faith that SU won't just hire Red or GMac when JB ultimately retires.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don't think JB is our only hope, and I definitely don't think Hop was.

I have issues with his stubbornness, but I honestly don't think he's going to end his career on this downward slide. He should be able to get the chance to turn it around in the next two years.

We'll have an idea of what to expect based on who he hires. If he promotes from within or hires an Otis Hill type, then What? That will shake my faith that SU won't just hire Red or GMac when JB ultimately retires.

Agreed. I love the optimism shown by many here, but until we see who JB brings in to hit the recruiting trail hard, I am definitely a pessimist. If we are shut out from the tourney again next season, and not even on the bubble, it will get very ugly here. If Lydon leaves and we don't bring in a really good PG, I can see that happening.

Then again, I always have been a pessimist. Makes life so much better when it turns out well. Keep expectations low so things pleasantly surprise you.

 

[pearl31]

Who is hired to fill the open vacancy followed by how SU closes the 17 class and pursues the 18 class this spring and summer will likely answer most of our questions. Do we hire a guy with AAU connections to help recruiting? Does JB take a more hands on approach to recruiting?

Absolutely.
And normally-optimistic me is just not expecting the answer to either of those questions to be "yes."
We know Autry and GMAC are just moving one rung up on the ladder, with Red essentially becoming the new Hop. I just think all indications are that Wellman will slide into the remaining ast. coach role.
I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see JB suddenly going in some new, invigorated recruiting direction.

 

[rrlbees]

Do we know for sure that Wildhack indicated or implied this about Hop?

no

 

[RF2044]

This is a defining and wonderful opportunity for both Syverud and Wildhack - and for the University. I, for one, am very happy.

Hopkins gets a chance to shine without the pressure of replacing a legend. Washington is a fantastic program with substantial upside. Good for him!

And Syracuse, in addition to "refreshing" the Dome, gets to bring in a talented - and experienced head coach.

Football is on the upswing. Babers was/is a terrific hire.

The only wrinkle - and it's potentially a big one - is how long does JB linger?

All things being equal, I think the future is brighter today for all involved. Go Cuse!

Your first sentence is why I'm optimistic that things will turn out OK. I think Wildhack was a great hire, and I am confident that with him at the helm, the university will make a great hire to eventually replace JB.

 

[Townie72]

Do we know for sure that Wildhack indicated or implied this about Hop?

We don't KNOW anything. Everything on here is a SWAG (A Simple W wild-assed guess.)

We have JB's statements and they are very sketchy. Now that we can see what happened, we can guess at the reasons for all the vagueness.

And there's a possibility that we never will know what actually happened or who drove the decision.

Hop certainly didn't get hurt at the end of the day.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Absolutely.
And normally-optimistic me is just not expecting the answer to either of those questions to be "yes."
We know Autry and GMAC are just moving one rung up on the ladder, with Red essentially becoming the new Hop. I just think all indications are that Wellman will slide into the remaining ast. coach role.
I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see JB suddenly going in some new, invigorated recruiting direction.

JB stopped recruiting because he didn't have the passion for it. To think he's suddenly going to relish the airline miles, the car trips, the phone calls, the texts, kissing up to high school kids, and being more assertive running the practices is just delusional.

Wildhack needs to get his short list together and start discussing which "health condition" will be the story they run with in April 2018. I just hope that press release is vetted by JB. "Boeheim calls it quits due to prostatitis" would look suspicious.

 

[Alsacs]

JB is coaching atleast 2 more years.
JB didn't want to retire after next year.
Hop didn't want to push his mentor out.
Hop took a great job.
JB gets to go out when he wants now.

 

[NKR1978]

Absolutely.
And normally-optimistic me is just not expecting the answer to either of those questions to be "yes."
We know Autry and GMAC are just moving one rung up on the ladder, with Red essentially becoming the new Hop. I just think all indications are that Wellman will slide into the remaining ast. coach role.
I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see JB suddenly going in some new, invigorated recruiting direction.

Which is strange because he changed for the better when he brought in Weaver. But I'm concerned as well.

 

[pearl31]

JB is coaching atleast 2 more years.
JB didn't want to retire after next year.
Hop didn't want to push his mentor out.
Hop took a great job.
JB gets to go out when he wants now.

Which is basically what I'm saying. With the possible exception of your first point here. JB might or might not want to retire after next year - he'll decide that whenever he sees fit.

 

[Alsacs]

Which is basically what I'm saying. With the possible exception of your first point here. JB might or might not want to retire after next year - he'll decide that whenever he sees fit.

I have it on good authority JB pledged atleast 2 more.
He will coach the sanctions years so any new candidate can't use sanctions for contract negotiations a less favorable for SU.