“The only thing more surprising than a deep syracuse run is the absence of one”

[Waltdods]

When the Syracuse Zone Is Operating in Full Effect, No Team Is Safe

It is genuinely remarkable that this has become the conventional wisdom about Syracuse. I have three points about this:

1) In the 2011, 2012 period the line boeheim antagonists took was that sure he could put up great regular seasons but he couldn’t get it done in the tournament. Now some in that group make the opposite argument. Both are silly.

2) the speed at which this narrative changes should be another reason to doubt the staying power of narratives about coaches like tony Bennett.

3) the tournament is largely a crapshoot. It’s great that SU is putting together run after run in the tournament but I’m skeptical that boeheim has mastered basketball anymore than he was an idiot four years ago.

4) the real takeaway is that you aim to put together good teams and get in the tournament and over the long run you’ll basically get what you deserve.

 

[HOFCeluck]

This honestly makes me kind of nervous for next year when we should actually have a good regular season. There’s just a ton of randomness in this tournament.

 

[bpo57]

When the Syracuse Zone Is Operating in Full Effect, No Team Is Safe

It is genuinely remarkable that this has become the conventional wisdom about Syracuse. I have three points about this:

1) In the 2011, 2012 period the line boeheim antagonists took was that sure he could put up great regular seasons but he couldn’t get it done in the tournament. Now some in that group make the opposite argument. Both are silly.

2) the speed at which this narrative changes should be another reason to doubt the staying power of narratives about coaches like tony Bennett.

3) the tournament is largely a crapshoot. It’s great that SU is putting together run after run in the tournament but I’m skeptical that boeheim has mastered basketball anymore than he was an idiot four years ago.

4) the real takeaway is that you aim to put together good teams and get in the tournament and over the long run you’ll basically get what you deserve.

Re #1 they were saying that about JB back in the mid 80s.

 

[Briancuse]

If I see one more post on one of our haters message boards that jb underachieves in the tournament I'm going to smack someone...

 

[Entropic]

This honestly makes me kind of nervous for next year when we should actually have a good regular season. There’s just a ton of randomness in this tournament.

If we could keep all of our underclassman for once...

I feel like next year we could have an offense to go with the defense. But if Bris and Battle take off it's back to figuring out who our scorers are going to be and then waiting for some sort of cohesion to occur.

 

[Waltdods]

Re #1 they were saying that about JB back in the mid 80s.

Yea, I think you could argue that boeheim has had to overcome basically the same narrative four times (I suppose that’s the downside of keeping the same job for four decades):

First in 87. Then by the mid 90s Syracuse again had a rep of busting out. 96 led to a bit of a renaissance. But by the turn of the century there was a lot of noise that he would never win the big one. Then 03. Then a decade later he starts getting the regular season only rep, then su responds with 13/16/18.

 

[bpo57]

Yea, I think you could argue that boeheim has had to overcome basically the same narrative four times (I suppose that’s the downside of keeping the same job for four decades):

First in 87. Then by the mid 90s Syracuse again had a rep of busting out. 96 led to a bit of a renaissance. But by the turn of the century there was a lot of noise that he would never win the big one. Then 03. Then a decade later he starts getting the regular season only rep, then su responds with 13/16/18.

Yup. For sure. In the run-up to 87 we lost to lower seeds at least 4-5 times in the JB era.

 

[Delmar]

John Cheney was a great coach at Temple, and before that at Cheney State (Yes, strange and curious, isn't it?) who was known for his zone defense. But before Cheney, there was Harry Litwack, at Temple, whose zone was the measure of all other zones. Temple in the 60's and early 70's went against Villanova, St. Joseph's, LaSalle, Penn, and more than held their own. They won the NIT in the early 70's when it still meant something. JB is the inheritor of Harry Litwack more than any other basketball coach as the guru of how to play the zone.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

John Cheney was a great coach at Temple, and before that at Cheney State (Yes, strange and curious, isn't it?) who was known for his zone defense. But before Cheney, there was Harry Litwack, at Temple, whose zone was the measure of all other zones. Temple in the 60's and early 70's went against Villanova, St. Joseph's, LaSalle, Penn, and more than held their own. They won the NIT in the early 70's when it still meant something. JB is the inheritor of Harry Litwack more than any other basketball coach as the guru of how to play the zone.

Jud Heatcoate, JB Hall, and Jerry Tarkanian all won titles playing zone.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

If we beat Duke, we should all get together and eat a Porterhouse with spoons!

 

[Delmar]

Jud Heatcoate, JB Hall, and Jerry Tarkanian all won titles playing zone.

You clearly know your stuff. You are absolutely correct about what you posted. The distinction I am making is that Litwack played the zone all the time, and in this sense JB is his historical inheritor. Hall, Heathcote and Tark mixed it up. They applied the zone when they felt in best. Hall particularly is underestimated for this. What he accomplished following Rupp has been greatly undervalued.
I'll stand by my original post. JB is the Harry Litwack of his era. I'd love to hear his take on that.

 

[djorange1989]

Yup. For sure. In the run-up to 87 we lost to lower seeds at least 4-5 times in the JB era.

Yep JB never won 2 tourney games in a season until 87. Our sweet 16 appearances before that were in a smaller field and we only won once to get there