2015 NFL season general discussion thread

[longislandcuse]

Notice how no one is telling us we're wrong about all these penalties, maybe some are a gray area, but no one in this thread can tell me that Bills fans shouldn't have an issue with the officiating in Sunday's game and that's a problem.

There should NEVER be a game in which the contest consists of 5-7 Missed/Controversial calls and they all go against the same team.

 

[Orangeman]

I just ran the Buffalo Bills in-game Penalty analysis and to me it's pretty telling, right along with the usual pattern of big penalties against the Bills so the Big Town team can get a lead, then the usual catch-up period to even out the numbers so it doesn't look as bad...this is per ESPN's Play-by-Play

While the Giants were building their lead and into the 3rd Q the penalty count was pretty one-sided: 9 flags against the Bills, 2 against the Giants. The difference would reach a high of 11-2...1 of those flags was negated by two penalties on one play (a third down play...a Hold and then TT Illegal Forward pass, which BTW I thought was the wrong call but it doesn't matter, they dropped the pass).

So 11-2 into the 3Q, they had called the Giants for 2 penalties including a False Start and OPI on a pick play.

In the 3Q the refs got busy, throwing a total of 9 total penaly flags...5 on the Giants and 4 on the Bills. The Giants' penalties consisted of 4 procedures and the DPI which went for 28 yards. The Bills' penalties included the Holding penalty which negated TT's TD run.

The 4th Q was 5-4 Bills...the Giants had 3 procedural penalties and 1 Holding call...the Bills were called for 5 major fouls including Unnecessary Roughness, etc

So, in all...

That's 17 penalties against the Bills, 13 Discretionary and 4 Procedural. 10 in the 1H, 7 in the 2H.

11 penalties against Giants; 3 Discretionary, 8 Procedural. 2 in the 1H; 9 in the 2H.

 

[longislandcuse]

I just ran the Buffalo Bills in-game Penalty analysis and to me it's pretty telling, right along with the usual pattern of big penalties against the Bills so the Big Town team can get a lead, then the usual catch-up period to even out the numbers so it doesn't look as bad...this is per ESPN's Play-by-Play

While the Giants were building their lead and into the 3rd Q the penalty count was pretty one-sided: 9 flags against the Bills, 2 against the Giants. The difference would reach a high of 11-2...1 of those flags was negated by two penalties on one play (a third down play...a Hold and then TT Illegal Forward pass, which BTW I thought was the wrong call but it doesn't matter, they dropped the pass).

So 11-2 into the 3Q, they had called the Giants for 2 penalties including a False Start and OPI on a pick play.

In the 3Q the refs got busy, throwing a total of 9 total penaly flags...5 on the Giants and 4 on the Bills. The Giants' penalties consisted of 4 procedures and the DPI which went for 28 yards. The Bills' penalties included the Holding penalty which negated TT's TD run.

The 4th Q was 5-4 Bills...the Giants had 3 procedural penalties and 1 Holding call...the Bills were called for 5 major fouls including Unnecessary Roughness, etc

So, in all...

That's 17 penalties against the Bills, 13 Discretionary and 4 Procedural. 10 in the 1H, 7 in the 2H.

11 penalties against Giants; 3 Discretionary, 8 Procedural. 2 in the 1H; 9 in the 2H.

13-3 Discretionary.

That says it all.

 

[longislandcuse]

pic.twitter.com/f9LKisvNJY

Preston Brown got a 15 yard penalty here.

OBJ...no flag

 

[Alsacs]

Here Bills fans I am going to throw a blast from the past you will enjoy. My buddy on Youtube is uploading a lot of old NFL games.

 

[Melancer46]

pic.twitter.com/f9LKisvNJY

Preston Brown got a 15 yard penalty here.

OBJ...no flag

I think this is the first time that a ref has ever called a penalty on the guy that retaliates... you never hear about that in sports.

I just don't buy that the refs have it out for Buffalo at all. If you've been watching them all year (which I know you have), it's blatantly obvious that they are in fact an undisciplined team, and they proved it at the end of the game.

It sucks that Bromley sold a holding call and it worked. It sucks that Incognito unnecessarily dove at a defensive lineman and got called for a chop block when he may have hit him a few inches high enough to make it legal. Calls go for and against every team in every game. If the pass on Incognito's alleged chop block had gone incomplete, Bills fans would have just chalked it up to a penalty that could have gone both ways, but because it negated a touchdown, it's a much bigger deal. The only call that I saw on Sunday that I haven't seen go against other teams was the one where they got two personal fouls in a row for 30 yards (one after the play ended and one before the following play began, so I guess they counted that as two separate situations, and therefore, could be charged with both). Everything else was completely normal. Refs just mess up sometimes and players do a good job of selling calls and trick them. The vast majority of the penalties that Buffalo committed in both this game and the Patriots game were deserved; they simply do a lot of stupid things on the football field and they lose their cool at an alarming rate when things don't go their way.

 

[longislandcuse]

It sucks that Bromley sold a holding call and it worked. It sucks that Incognito unnecessarily dove at a defensive lineman and got called for a chop block when he may have hit him a few inches high enough to make it legal. Calls go for and against every team in every game. If the pass on Incognito's alleged chop block had gone incomplete, Bills fans would have just chalked it up to a penalty that could have gone both ways, but because it negated a touchdown, it's a much bigger deal. The only call that I saw on Sunday that I haven't seen go against other teams was the one where they got two personal fouls in a row for 30 yards (one after the play ended and one before the following play began, so I guess they counted that as two separate situations, and therefore, could be charged with both). Everything else was completely normal. Refs just mess up sometimes and players do a good job of selling calls and trick them. The vast majority of the penalties that Buffalo committed in both this game and the Patriots game were deserved; they simply do a lot of stupid things on the football field and they lose their cool at an alarming rate when things don't go their way.

Ummm...yea?

You're acting like Bills fans should be cool with a bad and then iffy call that negated 2 TD's... I feel weird even trying to respond to this.

 

[Melancer46]

Ummm...yea?

You're acting like Bills fans should be cool with a bad and then iffy call that negated 2 TD's... I feel weird even trying to respond to this.

My point is you're letting the result of the play cloud your judgment regarding the penalties. If you agree that had that pass fallen incomplete, you wouldn't have really thought anything of the penalty call, then you should feel the same now. It's not that surprising that that was called a chop block; just because the play went for a touchdown doesn't suddenly mean the refs committed some sort of crime against Buffalo and purposefully screwed them out of a touchdown.

 

[longislandcuse]

My point is you're letting the result of the play cloud your judgment regarding the penalties. If you agree that had that pass fallen incomplete, you wouldn't have really thought anything of the penalty call, then you should feel the same now. It's not that surprising that that was called a chop block; just because the play went for a touchdown doesn't suddenly mean the refs committed some sort of crime against Buffalo and purposefully screwed them out of a touchdown.

I'm not saying they purposefully called that particular play, knowing we'd score on it as a way to fraudulently determine the game.

I am saying, the officials were biased in this game and that resulted in multiple bad-iffy calls that all went against one team and as a result took 2 TD's off the board and caused the team to lose focus and melt down.

Should they be more mature than that, yes and no.. Go read the thread I just posted with Gilmore's take on OBJ and some of the comments in there and tell me how you'd react, as a football player, with all that going on.

 

[Melancer46]

I'm not saying they purposefully called that particular play, knowing we'd score on it as a way to fraudulently determine the game.

I am saying, the officials were biased in this game and that resulted in multiple bad-iffy calls that all went against one team and as a result took 2 TD's off the board and caused the team to lose focus and melt down.

Should they be more mature than that, yes and no.. Go read the thread I just posted with Gilmore's take on OBJ and some of the comments in there and tell me how you'd react, as a football player, with all that going on.

There's really no evidence that the officials were biased though. I feel like it's far more likely that the ref saw Incognito dive and push the defender's knee and threw the flag not realizing the initial contact may have been high enough to make it a legal block than the possibility that the ref said "Alright, any time there's a call I'm unsure of, I better make sure it screws the home team over because I like big markets". I don't think the referees officiated this game any differently than any other game you see on TV; the only difference is that the penalties they called just so happened to undo two touchdowns for one team and no touchdowns for the other. I honestly didn't think they did anything egregious in this game; Bills fans were just looking to blame the refs because the Bills couldn't move the ball, and whenever they did, they happened to commit penalties.

I'll respond regarding the punching in the other thread.

 

[longislandcuse]

There's really no evidence that the officials were biased though. I feel like it's far more likely that the ref saw Incognito dive and push the defender's knee and threw the flag not realizing the initial contact may have been high enough to make it a legal block than the possibility that the ref said "Alright, any time there's a call I'm unsure of, I better make sure it screws the home team over because I like big markets". I don't think the referees officiated this game any differently than any other game you see on TV; the only difference is that the penalties they called just so happened to undo two touchdowns for one team and no touchdowns for the other. I honestly didn't think they did anything egregious in this game; Bills fans were just looking to blame the refs because the Bills couldn't move the ball, and whenever they did, they happened to commit penalties.

I'll respond regarding the punching in the other thread.

I don't know how anyone can defend 13 discretionary calls to 3... Then we hear all this OBJ stuff. I don't know how I can name 7 controversial calls (2 of which took TDs off the board) and they all go against one team and that's ok. That's not ok...at all.

I think the refs are biased and/or have it out for Rex and this team. I truly do. I've never seen players react/respond the way some of the Bills are, and quiet/professional guys like Gilmore and Kyle Williams to add.

 

[samspann1]

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/1...m-jr-threw-multiple-punches-is-a-prima-donna/

 

[Orangeman]

My point is you're letting the result of the play cloud your judgment regarding the penalties. If you agree that had that pass fallen incomplete, you wouldn't have really thought anything of the penalty call, then you should feel the same now. It's not that surprising that that was called a chop block; just because the play went for a touchdown doesn't suddenly mean the refs committed some sort of crime against Buffalo and purposefully screwed them out of a touchdown.

Sorry but this is pretty clueless

These players and coaches have millions on the line. Millions

I've been saying now for two years: the owners plans enriched them, and sure some players (mostly the QBs and ironically the LT and rush-ends) but definitely not all the players for the risks they take.

And all this, deflategate, the Bills post-game comments, etc, is because they know what's going on

Take away the three Personal Fouls at the end, and the discretionary penalties in this game were still 10-3 in favor of the Giants. Does that make any sense in a game where they're all going at it and the Giants have a make-shift line going against three all-Pros?

No, it doesn't

I've watched enough Bills game to know, regardless of coaching regime and players at hand, they lead the league in kick return blocks in the back. Why, because you can call it every kick return if you want, it really hurts the team (field position) and its a cheap way to influence the game

 

[Orangeman]

There's really no evidence that the officials were biased though. I feel like it's far more likely that the ref saw Incognito dive and push the defender's knee and threw the flag not realizing the initial contact may have been high enough to make it a legal block than the possibility that the ref said "Alright, any time there's a call I'm unsure of, I better make sure it screws the home team over because I like big markets". I don't think the referees officiated this game any differently than any other game you see on TV; the only difference is that the penalties they called just so happened to undo two touchdowns for one team and no touchdowns for the other. I honestly didn't think they did anything egregious in this game; Bills fans were just looking to blame the refs because the Bills couldn't move the ball, and whenever they did, they happened to commit penalties. I'll respond regarding the punching in the other thread.

But he didn't touch the knee. He didn't

And it didn't look that way in real time or slo mo

And they took the time to huddle and "correct" a flag they threw on Giants (which was BS)

 

[Melancer46]

Sorry but this is pretty clueless

These players and coaches have millions on the line. Millions

I've been saying now for two years: the owners plans enriched them, and sure some players (mostly the QBs and ironically the LT and rush-ends) but definitely not all the players for the risks they take.

And all this, deflategate, the Bills post-game comments, etc, is because they know what's going on

Take away the three Personal Fouls at the end, and the discretionary penalties in this game were still 10-3 in favor of the Giants. Does that make any sense in a game where they're all going at it and the Giants have a make-shift line going against three all-Pros?

No, it doesn't

I've watched enough Bills game to know, regardless of coaching regime and players at hand, they lead the league in kick return blocks in the back. Why, because you can call it every kick return if you want, it really hurts the team (field position) and its a cheap way to influence the game

But he didn't touch the knee. He didn't

And it didn't look that way in real time or slo mo

And they took the time to huddle and "correct" a flag they threw on Giants (which was BS)

Addressing the first post, yes, it does make sense. Eli was getting the ball out before his offensive line had a chance to commit any penalties. Buffalo is far more physical in terms of pass interference calls, and with Tyrod's tendency to hang onto the ball, the Bills' own shaky offensive line, and Tyrod's lack of pocket presence, it puts more pressure on the Bills to hold in order to give him time/save him from being sacked. The OPI on Clay and the holding that brought back the one touchdown were weak calls, but that stuff gets called against every team in nearly every game. And if not for the personal foul calls (which were all warranted), the gap in discretionary penalties is much closer.

Regarding the alleged chop block, he pushed the guys knee as he was falling. The initial contact looked to be right around the guy's hip and then as Incognito fell, that point of contact continued to drop until it got to his knee. It's completely possible that the ref may not have seen it until Incognito was pushing below the defender's thigh, and therefore, it would have looked like a chop block to the official. It's also possible that from the ref's vantage point (I'm not sure where the ref that made the call was), he couldn't tell exactly where the contact was made but simply saw Incognito dive low while the defender was engaged high, and therefore, threw the flag. I think in cases of chop blocks, refs would tend to call it if it's close because of how dangerous they can be, much like the penalties where a defender hits a receiver with their shoulder and get called for helmet-to-helmet simply because it was close. Personally, I thought that penalty was going to be called the second I saw it, so I wasn't surprised at all when the flag was actually thrown. It's easy to question these things when you look at them in slow motion, but I don't blame the ref at all for penalizing Incognito on that play, and this is coming from someone that was rooting for the Bills (and also had some money down that was reliant on Clay having a good game, so that touchdown being negated was a big hit). I certainly don't think this game was indicative of any agenda against the Buffalo Bills. They're simply an undisciplined team regardless of whether or not you think they are.

 

[longislandcuse]

Addressing the first post, yes, it does make sense. Eli was getting the ball out before his offensive line had a chance to commit any penalties. Buffalo is far more physical in terms of pass interference calls, and with Tyrod's tendency to hang onto the ball, the Bills' own shaky offensive line, and Tyrod's lack of pocket presence, it puts more pressure on the Bills to hold in order to give him time/save him from being sacked. The OPI on Clay and the holding that brought back the one touchdown were weak calls, but that stuff gets called against every team in nearly every game. And if not for the personal foul calls (which were all warranted), the gap in discretionary penalties is much closer.

Regarding the alleged chop block, he pushed the guys knee as he was falling. The initial contact looked to be right around the guy's hip and then as Incognito fell, that point of contact continued to drop until it got to his knee. It's completely possible that the ref may not have seen it until Incognito was pushing below the defender's thigh, and therefore, it would have looked like a chop block to the official. It's also possible that from the ref's vantage point (I'm not sure where the ref that made the call was), he couldn't tell exactly where the contact was made but simply saw Incognito dive low while the defender was engaged high, and therefore, threw the flag. I think in cases of chop blocks, refs would tend to call it if it's close because of how dangerous they can be, much like the penalties where a defender hits a receiver with their shoulder and get called for helmet-to-helmet simply because it was close. Personally, I thought that penalty was going to be called the second I saw it, so I wasn't surprised at all when the flag was actually thrown. It's easy to question these things when you look at them in slow motion, but I don't blame the ref at all for penalizing Incognito on that play, and this is coming from someone that was rooting for the Bills (and also had some money down that was reliant on Clay having a good game, so that touchdown being negated was a big hit). I certainly don't think this game was indicative of any agenda against the Buffalo Bills. They're simply an undisciplined team regardless of whether or not you think they are.

This game, to me, was a clear indication of the refs agenda against the Bills. Almost every thread I've read about the game (Reddit etc..) has unbiased fans agreeing with what im saying.

The two non-call late hits on Tyrod Taylor, imo, were a clear to Rex Ryan from the refs. They flagged two bs penalties on Buffalo that negated TDs and as was pointed out earlier, "discretionary calls" were 13-3. If that doesn't scream biased officiating, I don't know what does. I didn't even bring up the numerous missed punches thrown by Giants players and calls like PI on Clay when the defender just fell.

 

[Melancer46]

This game, to me, was a clear indication of the refs agenda against the Bills. Almost every thread I've read about the game (Reddit etc..) has unbiased fans agreeing with what im saying.

The two non-call late hits on Tyrod Taylor, imo, were a clear to Rex Ryan from the refs. They flagged two bs penalties on Buffalo that negated TDs and as was pointed out earlier, "discretionary calls" were 13-3. If that doesn't scream biased officiating, I don't know what does. I didn't even bring up the numerous missed punches thrown by Giants players and calls like PI on Clay when the defender just fell.

Clearly we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Orangeman]

Clearly we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

That's fine. It's entertainment.

Also you're looking at this on a one or two game basis (Giants and Patriots) where the Bills "lost their cool" because of Rex Ryan, coach.

My vantage point is over a multi-year period and includes all kinds of different coaches and players...and the pattern is firmly established and hasn't really deviated over the years. So I disagree with the notion that these Bills are "undisciplined" because it's happened over the years

For example, this is from LAST YEAR...the Bills stopped Patriots on a 3rd and 1, and like EVERY OTHER TEAM who would do that, they were happy...and so they celebrated among themselves. Jerry Hughes slapped his own teammates' helmets to say good job. Result? The official who was RIGHT THERE throws a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the Bills and gave the ball back to the Patriots.

Honestly, you just can't argue against this...the trend is too true. No other team would have had this call against them, I've never seen anything like it. The Coach was Doug Marrone, who never said a peep. There were articles on ESPN about how bad the call was.

And finally: your point about Eli throwing the ball too quick so no penalties is just wrong. The Giants had huge success running against the #1 rush defense in the league with a make-shift line against 4 Pro Bowl D-Linemen. There are holding penalties on Running Plays all the time. They called one holding penalty on the Giants, and I believe it was downfield. Hogwash in my opinion. Check out this link:

http://thebiglead.com/2014/10/12/je...g-by-slapping-his-own-teammate-on-the-helmet/

If I was idle or independently wealthy I'd investigate the frequency with which the Bills games are assigned "favorite" officiating crews, etc etc...how the pattern of calls are implemented throughout a game. EVERY time I've checked on this, including the Giants game, it's the same: dramatic difference in the first half with Bills > opponent; major discrepancy in game-long discretionary calls; "evening out" of the stats over the course of the 2H so the end-results don't appear drastically different.

Much like that's how the Patriots could cheat "within" the taping/radio rules, there could be a systematic way to ensure select teams received pref treatment over the course of a season(s).

 

[longislandcuse]

That's fine. It's entertainment.

Also you're looking at this on a one or two game basis (Giants and Patriots) where the Bills "lost their cool" because of Rex Ryan, coach.

My vantage point is over a multi-year period and includes all kinds of different coaches and players...and the pattern is firmly established and hasn't really deviated over the years. So I disagree with the notion that these Bills are "undisciplined" because it's happened over the years

For example, this is from LAST YEAR...the Bills stopped Patriots on a 3rd and 1, and like EVERY OTHER TEAM who would do that, they were happy...and so they celebrated among themselves. Jerry Hughes slapped his own teammates' helmets to say good job. Result? The official who was RIGHT THERE throws a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the Bills and gave the ball back to the Patriots.

Honestly, you just can't argue against this...the trend is too true. No other team would have had this call against them, I've never seen anything like it. The Coach was Doug Marrone, who never said a peep. There were articles on ESPN about how bad the call was.

And finally: your point about Eli throwing the ball too quick so no penalties is just wrong. The Giants had huge success running against the #1 rush defense in the league with a make-shift line against 4 Pro Bowl D-Linemen. There are holding penalties on Running Plays all the time. They called one holding penalty on the Giants, and I believe it was downfield. Hogwash in my opinion. Check out this link:

http://thebiglead.com/2014/10/12/je...g-by-slapping-his-own-teammate-on-the-helmet/

If I was idle or independently wealthy I'd investigate the frequency with which the Bills games are assigned "favorite" officiating crews, etc etc...how the pattern of calls are implemented throughout a game. EVERY time I've checked on this, including the Giants game, it's the same: dramatic difference in the first half with Bills > opponent; major discrepancy in game-long discretionary calls; "evening out" of the stats over the course of the 2H so the end-results don't appear drastically different.

Much like that's how the Patriots could cheat "within" the taping/radio rules, there could be a systematic way to ensure select teams received pref treatment over the course of a season(s).

I think dominant defenses get officiated more harshly as well. Buffalo, NYJ, Seattle pre-rise of RW, the old Ravens, 49ers of a few years ago.

The NFL wants offense. They don't want a bunch of dominant defenses. The Bills D-Line gets held with regularity, but like Rick Pitino says "if you handcheck all the time, they aren't going to call it all the time", this same philosophy applies and when a NFL Golden Boy QB representing a cash cow franchise goes up against one of the defensive lines, the NFL doesn't want to see that QB of that franchise getting beat down so holding goes uncalled. Flip the script and we see holding after holding penalty unflagged but then those same holds are called on us (a team without a big name QB) because the NFL doesn't care if Tyrod Taylor or apparently even Cam Newton of the low rating Panthers gets injured. Same goes for PI penalties etc.

These defenses are usually cocky and fired up and refs seem to hate defensive personalities so they get flagged, meanwhile, the Emmanuel Sanders of the world do a choreographed-rub it in your face dance everytime they get a first down and no flags.

The NFL looks out for its marquee QBs and marquee franchises and they don't want a bunch of dominating defenses messing up their offense. So until Tyrod Taylor becomes Russell Wilson, don't expect Buffalo to be getting any favors, in fact expect the opposite from the officials when we go up against the Tom Brady's and Eli Manning's of the world. Last year we saw it against Peyton Manning too, that was one of the most absurd games I have ever witnessed from an officiating crew.

 

[Melancer46]

That's fine. It's entertainment.

Also you're looking at this on a one or two game basis (Giants and Patriots) where the Bills "lost their cool" because of Rex Ryan, coach.

My vantage point is over a multi-year period and includes all kinds of different coaches and players...and the pattern is firmly established and hasn't really deviated over the years. So I disagree with the notion that these Bills are "undisciplined" because it's happened over the years

For example, this is from LAST YEAR...the Bills stopped Patriots on a 3rd and 1, and like EVERY OTHER TEAM who would do that, they were happy...and so they celebrated among themselves. Jerry Hughes slapped his own teammates' helmets to say good job. Result? The official who was RIGHT THERE throws a 15 yard unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the Bills and gave the ball back to the Patriots.

Honestly, you just can't argue against this...the trend is too true. No other team would have had this call against them, I've never seen anything like it. The Coach was Doug Marrone, who never said a peep. There were articles on ESPN about how bad the call was.

And finally: your point about Eli throwing the ball too quick so no penalties is just wrong. The Giants had huge success running against the #1 rush defense in the league with a make-shift line against 4 Pro Bowl D-Linemen. There are holding penalties on Running Plays all the time. They called one holding penalty on the Giants, and I believe it was downfield. Hogwash in my opinion. Check out this link:

http://thebiglead.com/2014/10/12/je...g-by-slapping-his-own-teammate-on-the-helmet/

If I was idle or independently wealthy I'd investigate the frequency with which the Bills games are assigned "favorite" officiating crews, etc etc...how the pattern of calls are implemented throughout a game. EVERY time I've checked on this, including the Giants game, it's the same: dramatic difference in the first half with Bills > opponent; major discrepancy in game-long discretionary calls; "evening out" of the stats over the course of the 2H so the end-results don't appear drastically different.

Much like that's how the Patriots could cheat "within" the taping/radio rules, there could be a systematic way to ensure select teams received pref treatment over the course of a season(s).

Buffalo simply isn't that great against the run. The only reason the Bills were "#1 against the run" is because the Patriots literally didn't run the ball against them because passing was so easy, and the Colts and Dolphins fell behind so quickly that they had to pass to try to catch up. The Giants averaged 3.2 yards per carry on Sunday, which was far lower than the Bills defense had been allowing up until that point. Buffalo was in the bottom 10 in the NFL in yards per carry going into the game and because of how well they did against the Giants rushing attack, they are now just outside of the top 10.

 

[BuffOrange]

Buffalo simply isn't that great against the run. The only reason the Bills were "#1 against the run" is because the Patriots literally didn't run the ball against them because passing was so easy, and the Colts and Dolphins fell behind so quickly that they had to pass to try to catch up. The Giants averaged 3.2 yards per carry on Sunday, which was far lower than the Bills defense had been allowing up until that point. Buffalo was in the bottom 10 in the NFL in yards per carry going into the game and because of how well they did against the Giants rushing attack, they are now just outside of the top 10.

True. This year is a small sample, but two years ago under Pettine, Football Outsiders had them 19th vs the run and 4th overall. It's not something that's really a big problem in today's game unless you're terrible at it.

 

[Melancer46]

Even though I don't believe in the conspiracy of the refs, considering it's related, I figured I'd post this here:

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think this is the first time that a ref has ever called a penalty on the guy that retaliates... you never hear about that in sports.

I just don't buy that the refs have it out for Buffalo at all. If you've been watching them all year (which I know you have), it's blatantly obvious that they are in fact an undisciplined team, and they proved it at the end of the game.

It sucks that Bromley sold a holding call and it worked. It sucks that Incognito unnecessarily dove at a defensive lineman and got called for a chop block when he may have hit him a few inches high enough to make it legal. Calls go for and against every team in every game. If the pass on Incognito's alleged chop block had gone incomplete, Bills fans would have just chalked it up to a penalty that could have gone both ways, but because it negated a touchdown, it's a much bigger deal. The only call that I saw on Sunday that I haven't seen go against other teams was the one where they got two personal fouls in a row for 30 yards (one after the play ended and one before the following play began, so I guess they counted that as two separate situations, and therefore, could be charged with both). Everything else was completely normal. Refs just mess up sometimes and players do a good job of selling calls and trick them. The vast majority of the penalties that Buffalo committed in both this game and the Patriots game were deserved; they simply do a lot of stupid things on the football field and they lose their cool at an alarming rate when things don't go their way.

The other thing that no one seems to be mentioning about the chop block was that it was COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. The guy wasn't going anywhere, he was already very well blocked. Incognito looked like he was trying to hurt the guy (i'm not saying he had actual intent, it just didn't look good).

 

[Orangeman]

The other thing that no one seems to be mentioning about the chop block was that it was COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. The guy wasn't going anywhere, he was already very well blocked. Incognito looked like he was trying to hurt the guy (i'm not saying he had actual intent, it just didn't look good).

Um no

He stumbled

He still blocked the guy at the rib level, not even close to a chop block

The block was "unnecessary", but they rushed 3 I believe and there are 5 linemen, so would you rather he just stand there?

You need to watch more line-play (not that I'm John madden)

 

[Orangeman]

Even though I don't believe in the conspiracy of the refs, considering it's related, I figured I'd post this here:

That's the Bills fault

I thought from the beginning they should have reviewed. What to lose? A timeout or a challenge you won't need if it's a two TD game?

Actually, that might be a solution to the NFLs obvious bias problem: The Bills are afforded 6 challenges since turn blind and dumb when they show up to red their games.