2023 Bracketology

[Hoo's That]

Bucknell in 1996 I think it was you're recalling?

I believe you're right. I knew it was a school beginning with "B". Desko was quoted along the lines of "I thought we would end up playing them."

 

[tbonezone]

another annual memorial day highlight postponed...this sucks.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[Zack80]

It is amazing how bunched together the teams on the RPI chart are between #16 and #24.
The difference between a good win or not, or a bad loss or not is pretty small, and shifts around like a feather in the wind

https://pro.lacrossereference.com/rpi-d1-men?t=epxlwifospeivmd

 

[cuselaxss26]

just stinks cause 6 of thier loses are to top 6 teams or teams in top six. Where think they match up prettt good on teams 7-20. Sadly that’s not how it works. When play tough schedule take risk of losing to top teams. But always say to be best gotta play best. I could see cuse beating a denver or rutgers yale or even penn. But there is no favors when play in acc that’s for sure. At first when duke switched goalies thought they wanted us to win lol. jk

 

[tbonezone]

just stinks cause 6 of thier loses are to top 6 teams or teams in top six. Where think they match up prettt good on teams 7-20. Sadly that’s not how it works. When play tough schedule take risk of losing to top teams. But always say to be best gotta play best. I could see cuse beating a denver or rutgers yale or even penn. But there is no favors when play in acc that’s for sure. At first when duke switched goalies thought they wanted us to win lol. jk

upside .playing the best this season will only make the players better next.

 

[AD31]

upside .playing the best this season will only make the players better next.

Yes but should mean something to the committee. Played the 6 best teams in the country and pretty much hung with them except for Virginia. Although after the 6 - 0 run to start the game they pretty much hung with them. Just lost to the top team in the country 18 - 15 and lost to them early in season in OT. That should mean a lot and show SU is better then all those bubble teams. Blew out every team they we're supposed to and played great games with all the top teams. Beat UNC, Princeton and Vermont who's close to top 20. Just my opinion as I think they beat all those bubble teams like Denver, Yale and Penn.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Bracketology: How Many 'What Ifs' Are There in the Men's Field?

Entering this week's conference tournaments, is the picture already clear?

www.usalaxmagazine.com

Annapolis, Md.
(1) Duke vs. COLONIAL/Delaware-METRO ATLANTIC/Manhattan
(8) BIG EAST/Georgetown vs. Yale

Albany, N.Y.
(5) Johns Hopkins vs. Denver
(4) BIG TEN/Penn State vs. AMERICA EAST/Vermont

Albany, N.Y.
(3) Notre Dame vs. ATLANTIC SUN/Utah
(6) Maryland vs. Penn

Annapolis, Md.
(7) IVY/Cornell vs. PATRIOT/Boston University
(2) Virginia vs. ATLANTIC 10/Saint Joseph’s

Last three included: Yale, Penn, Denver

First three on the outside: Villanova, North Carolina, Rutgers
Moving in: Boston U

Moving out: Army
Conference call: ACC (3), Big Ten (3), Ivy (3), Big East (2)

 

[OrangeXtreme]

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/il-s-2023-bracketology-fourth-look-how-to-order-the-top-three/61343

 

[Hoo's That]

Bracketology: How Many 'What Ifs' Are There in the Men's Field?

Entering this week's conference tournaments, is the picture already clear?

www.usalaxmagazine.com

Annapolis, Md.
(1) Duke vs. COLONIAL/Delaware-METRO ATLANTIC/Manhattan
(8) BIG EAST/Georgetown vs. Yale

Albany, N.Y.
(5) Johns Hopkins vs. Denver
(4) BIG TEN/Penn State vs. AMERICA EAST/Vermont

Albany, N.Y.
(3) Notre Dame vs. ATLANTIC SUN/Utah
(6) Maryland vs. Penn

Annapolis, Md.
(7) IVY/Cornell vs. PATRIOT/Boston University
(2) Virginia vs. ATLANTIC 10/Saint Joseph’s

Last three included: Yale, Penn, Denver

First three on the outside: Villanova, North Carolina, Rutgers
Moving in: Boston U

Moving out: Army
Conference call: ACC (3), Big Ten (3), Ivy (3), Big East (2)

I'd be surprised if those locations hold up. Putting UMD and JHU in Annapolis puts a lot of fannies in seats.

 

[dollarbill44]

The AQ came about because Butler(?)/Bucknell(?) was an undefeated conference champion and didn't get a bid. John Desko was on the committee that year and said he was shocked they weren't in; he had assumed they'd get a bid. Supposedly the reps from schools that get AQs now shot them down. (IIRC, Desko was the only rep from one of the traditional powers.) The lacrosse committee (after a great deal of criticism) decided the situation was unsat and came up with the AQ rules we have now.

I don't have s problem with the AQs. A simple solution is to increase the size of the field to 24 (16 is not enough with the AQs). Give the top 8 a bye and 16 teams play in round 1.

 

[dollarbill44]

upside .playing the best this season will only make the players better next.

But, does it? I don't really think there is much carryover as rosters change so much anymore from one season to the next.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I don't have s problem with the AQs. A simple solution is to increase the size of the field to 24 (16 is not enough with the AQs). Give the top 8 a bye and 16 teams play in round 1.

There are only 9 AQ's and 8 At-Larges now. If the ACC ever gets its' act together, it'll get expanded to 10 & 8.

18 is perfect. 24 is too much. That's 1/3 of everyone who plays MLAX.

That's like a March Madness tournament of 128 teams. The NCAA will never approve it.

 

[Hoo's That]

I don't have s problem with the AQs. A simple solution is to increase the size of the field to 24 (16 is not enough with the AQs). Give the top 8 a bye and 16 teams play in round 1.

I don't either. I have seen a bunch of items that have said the the D-1 tournament ratio of participants to the number of schools sponsoring teams already is larger than other sports. The NCAA supposedly is committed to keeping at least half the field as at-large bids.

 

[wgdsr]

There are only 9 AQ's and 8 At-Larges now. If the ACC ever gets its' act together, it'll get expanded to 10 & 8.

18 is perfect. 24 is too much. That's 1/3 of everyone who plays MLAX.

That's like a March Madness tournament of 128 teams. The NCAA will never approve it.

the acc winner has never not been selected to the tournament. the worst case scenario is a bubble team maybe misses out. hardly incentive to force a 6th team and it has unintended consequences (weaker league).

there have been a ton of changes to nc$$ lately, obviously, some of it at the end of a gun (court losses, dept of justice anti-trust threats). more are coming. the nc$$ and its members have never been more flush with $$.

this is a good encapsulation of what's coming next. my guess ruled on this summer, for implementation ??

re: lax, the 25% rule is for 200+ teams, but the "sport-by-sport" management team clause may/should allow for expansion. my guess, we'll end up with 2-4 more at larges by next year or the year after.

NCAA committee proposes major changes for Division I sports, including bigger basketball tournaments

Larger NCAA men's and women's basketball tournaments and enhanced welfare for athletes were key points proposed by an NCAA transformation committee.

www.usatoday.com

 

[OrangeXtreme]

the acc winner has never not been selected to the tournament. the worst case scenario is a bubble team maybe misses out. hardly incentive to force a 6th team and it has unintended consequences (weaker league).

I'm not concerned with the ACC Reg Season Champ getting in.

I'd like all the runner-ups in the ACC to get a shot.

If Ohio State or Rutgers got hot in the B10T, they could have won the AQ. Loyola could win the Patriot League tourney. UAlbany could win the AE.

There's no opportunity for a school like SU or UNC this season to play its' way in by winning an ACCT right now.

 

[wgdsr]

I'm not concerned with the ACC Reg Season Champ getting in.

I'd like all the runner-ups in the ACC to get a shot.

If Ohio State or Rutgers got hot in the B10T, they could have won the AQ. Loyola could win the Patriot League tourney. UAlbany could win the AE.

There's no opportunity for a school like SU or UNC this season to play its' way in by winning an ACCT right now.

unc still plays nd, so they have an easier shot than winning the acct. cuse had the same opportunity last week. in theory, both would've had an easier road this year than any acct. just win 1 of 4 games. [cuse's win wouldn't have made it a given, but unc's possible w likely will].

6th team... brings everyone down. so you'll have to accept likely fewer bids over the years vs the random time you might beat 2 of the top 3-5 teams in the country over a weekend. i believe unc did that 1 time. 1 team has had that happen once that i recall.

i gave zero shot of tosu or rutgers winning 3 games.

there are a lot of benefits to being in the small club that is acc lacrosse, and i believe the folks running it understand that. even if they don't understand everything (see: 6 game acc schedule).

 

[Zack80]

unc still plays nd, so they have an easier shot than winning the acct. cuse had the same opportunity last week. in theory, both would've had an easier road this year than any acct. just win 1 of 4 games. [cuse's win wouldn't have made it a given, but unc's possible w likely will].

6th team... brings everyone down. so you'll have to accept likely fewer bids over the years vs the random time you might beat 2 of the top 3-5 teams in the country over a weekend. i believe unc did that 1 time. 1 team has had that happen once that i recall.

i gave zero shot of tosu or rutgers winning 3 games.

there are a lot of benefits to being in the small club that is acc lacrosse, and i believe the folks running it understand that. even if they don't understand everything (see: 6 game acc schedule).

What about Notre Dame and Duke last year? No AQ to play for.

 

[wgdsr]

What about Notre Dame and Duke last year? No AQ to play for.

i mean, what about it? there are calculators for rpi. who are you putting in for the 6th team in the acc and what does that do to everyone's resume? or are we adding ga tech and how does that go?

let's assume the strawman that someone pays off somebody @ the nc$$ and they don't need a 6th team for aq. duke's 2nd "winner take all" game w/ nd is their semi and they lose. no change. uva beats unc. now it's uva vs nd in round 2... uva hammered nd earlier and have now won like 7 in a row, but let's say nd gets the win. uva was unseeded last year, no top 10 wins and perilously close to being out. they lose to nd...very likely they are out. throw in a 6th team, they definitely are.

save last year [crazy ass committee, an inexplicable acc round robin post-covid and a more inexplicable 4 and 10 syracuse...] since the expanded acc 4 teams minimum have gotten in every year. this year, as unc and syracuse couldn't do enough unless unc wins saturday... it'll be 3. cuse rises, that'll be 4 next year.

6 teams, that'll be less in the future.

 

[CousCuse]

There are only 9 AQ's and 8 At-Larges now. If the ACC ever gets its' act together, it'll get expanded to 10 & 8.

18 is perfect. 24 is too much. That's 1/3 of everyone who plays MLAX.

That's like a March Madness tournament of 128 teams. The NCAA will never approve it.

There would be many more D1 lax programs if it weren't for T9. Lax has become very widespread and you can see how much talent there is out there as there are many strong teams out of the 76 that compete at that level. I think a field of 24 would allow all the quality teams into the tourney.

 

[Zack80]

i mean, what about it? there are calculators for rpi. who are you putting in for the 6th team in the acc and what does that do to everyone's resume? or are we adding ga tech and how does that go?

let's assume the strawman that someone pays off somebody @ the nc$$ and they don't need a 6th team for aq. duke's 2nd "winner take all" game w/ nd is their semi and they lose. no change. uva beats unc. now it's uva vs nd in round 2... uva hammered nd earlier and have now won like 7 in a row, but let's say nd gets the win. uva was unseeded last year, no top 10 wins and perilously close to being out. they lose to nd...very likely they are out. throw in a 6th team, they definitely are.

save last year [crazy ass committee, an inexplicable acc round robin post-covid and a more inexplicable 4 and 10 syracuse...] since the expanded acc 4 teams minimum have gotten in every year. this year, as unc and syracuse couldn't do enough unless unc wins saturday... it'll be 3. cuse rises, that'll be 4 next year.

6 teams, that'll be less in the future.

But, the winner of the ACC would have had an AQ opening up an at-large spot for Duke or ND last year.

All the ACC teams play some middling or weak opponents, so you just plug the 6th team in one of those spots.

It's a long flight, but I think Utah would be a good fit otherwise.

 

[CousCuse]

But, the winner of the ACC would have had an AQ opening up an at-large spot for Duke or ND last year.

All the ACC teams play some middling or weak opponents, so you just plug the 6th team in one of those spots.

It's a long flight, but I think Utah would be a good fit otherwise.

Flight plus altitude is giving Utah a good home field advantage.

 

[tbonezone]

But, does it? I don't really think there is much carryover as rosters change so much anymore from one season to the next.

i'll maintain that playing against better players makes you a better player.
you might lose but you will improve. dunking on a third grader ? "hey i totally shut that kid down" but in reality learned nothing. if it don't kill ya...

 

[dollarbill44]

The NCAA will never approve it.

i'll maintain that playing against better players makes you a better player.
you might lose but you will improve. dunking on a third grader ? "hey i totally shut that kid down" but in reality learned nothing. if it don't kill ya...

I agree with that, but it's not a great analogy because guys graduate, transfer in and out, get injured, etc both for SU and for our opponents. Also, the amount of time between the end of the season (now) and the start of next season (Feb) is meaningful.

Had we made the tourney, the strength of schedule would have helped in comparison with teams that haven't been tested much.

 

[Laxfanshutt]