3 Arguments for Shafer

[TheCusian]

I have more confidence in Lester as OC than SS as HC. I have been defending Lester recently I put the offense slowness on the D and that is on the HC and DC who are defense guys. I don't believe Bullough will get the ship righted I would have more confidence in Daoust. I don't think the offense will jump that much unless the D is better. No. To the last one.

Yeah - that's fair.

I'd promote Daoust in a heartbeat.
I think the offense will go faster this weekend.
And - yeah - I'm not sure on the last one either

 

[JeremyCuse]

That's what stumps me too. I know people are up in arms about decisions the last 2 games, but in his first two seasons and early this year were people complaining about these things? I don't recall much if any. Did he all of a sudden get stupid the last 2 games?

Clock management has been issue going back to his first year. Hard to get on the in game decisions last year when we were getting blown out most games in the second half but even then the punting decisions were baffling. The guy simply isnt a good in game coach. He made the same TO blunder last week at UVA earlier in the year as well. I mean this is basic stuff that a D1 coach should know.

 

[storange]

Miami and VPI in the OBE were basically what Florida State and Clemson have become.
We played BC and Pitt back then and now.
West Virginia was what basically what Louisville is now.
Temple was what Wake Forest is now
Rutgers was what NC State is now.
Now the Big East didn't have an 8th game but in the ACC we add a game from UNC/Duke/GT/UM/VPI/UVA

Our ACC schedule is not much different from the OBE and we typically played a big boy in OOC play like Auburn/Tennessee/Michigan/Florida State etc.

just for one Temple with the exception of one run (this year) is not WF. Wake had a couple of outstanding teams and were quite good have tailed off the last couple of years. Grobe had three good years culminating with an ACC championship. Temple now plays in the new conf USA or remnant BE.

 

[Alsacs]

The last 3 losses
1. Virginia- not calling TO w/25 seconds left before UVA's last FG, not going for 2 when the D was gassed in 2nd OT.
2. Pitt- the squib kick giving Pitt 3 points in a 3 point loss.
3. Florida State- the not running the clock down before calling TO.

Last year
1. Boston College- fake FG punt from the BC 33.
2. Pitt- punting from Midfield down 21 in the 4th quarter on 4th and 1.

I don't care to go thru each game but these 5 came to me in a matter of seconds.

SS has had 1 game where he played like we all want and that was the LSU game. He went for 4th downs and coached with recklessness that was enjoyable.

 

[Alsacs]

just for one Temple with the exception of one run (this year) is not WF. Wake had a couple of outstanding teams and were quite good have tailed off the last couple of years. Grobe had three good years culminating with an ACC championship. Temple now plays in the new conf USA or remnant BE.

Jim Grobe is Wake's all time wins leader. His career record at Wake was 77-82. If that is good I don't what is. Wake had a good 3 year from 2006-2008 where they won 28 games. In the last 5 years they have won 23 games.

If you are going to fight my post with Temple is no Wake Forest you really got me. Jeez Wake is the bottom feeder of the ACC Atlantic just like Temple was the bottom feeder of the Big East. If you want to say Wake is a slightly better bottom feeder fine but the OBE schedules are completely in line with what we are playing now.

 

[storange]

Jim Grobe is Wake's all time wins leader. His career record at Wake was 77-82. If that is good I don't what is. Wake had a good 3 year from 2006-2008 where they won 28 games. In the last 5 years they have won 23 games.

If you are going to fight my post with Temple is no Wake Forest you really got me. Jeez Wake is the bottom feeder of the ACC Atlantic just like Temple was the bottom feeder of the Big East. If you want to say Wake is a slightly better bottom feeder fine but the OBE schedules are completely in line with what we are playing now.

You can draw up Wikipedia pretty fast huh. WF has been better then Temple year in and up to this year. My point is that stats can be slanted one way or another pretty easily. I am sure if I wanted to spend the time I could counter with some stats that support SS, and in fact people have here. Wish I could turn off the SS debate until Nov 29th. See where we are and go from there. But fans are who they are.

 

[Alsacs]

You can draw up Wikipedia pretty fast huh. WF has been better then Temple year in and up to this year. My point is that stats can be slanted one way or another pretty easily. I am sure if I wanted to spend the time I could counter with some stats that support SS, and in fact people have here. Wish I could turn off the SS debate until Nov 29th. See where we are and go from there. But fans are who they are.

No I actually went to Wake Football website. TO go thru their entire history. Their winningest coach of alltime is 5 games under .500. They are a terrible football program historically.
Temple has been awful as well. If you want to call one awful slightly better go ahead.
You fought my premise of the schedule from the OBE being not much different from our current ACC schedules by fighting my Temple-Wake comp. That is so minuscule to me I had to respond the way I did.
Please provide stats if you are going to say you can. I want to win games not hate on SS. I have no confidence SS can lead the program to those wins. It is not personal like the pro-SS 4th year people want to make it.

 

[phil77]

I just want to know what on the football field have you seen from Shafer that leads you to believe given more time he will turn it around. I am not talked about being a good guy. I am not talking about the bottom third in ACC recruiting rankings. I am talking about on field coaching. What leads you to believe Shafer is the guy?

 

[Finwad32]

No I actually went to Wake Football website. TO go thru their entire history. Their winningest coach of alltime is 5 games under .500. They are a terrible football program historically.
Temple has been awful as well. If you want to call one awful slightly better go ahead.
You fought my premise of the schedule from the OBE being not much different from our current ACC schedules by fighting my Temple-Wake comp. That is so minuscule to me I had to respond the way I did.
Please provide stats if you are going to say you can. I want to win games not hate on SS. I have no confidence SS can lead the program to those wins. It is not personal like the pro-SS 4th year people want to make it.

It is personal when he's repeatedly been labeled as having less than average intelligence.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Lots of people here trying to shine a turd or put lipstick on a pig. Call it what it is. GROB ruined people so much that a bad hire can almost look average sometimes.

 

[Alsacs]

It is personal when he's repeatedly been labeled as having less than average intelligence.

The man is a college graduate and not an idiot. When people attack football HC intelligence I would never call them stupid.
Millhouse calls its Meatheadness. He hasn't shown good HC decision intelligence. I wouldn't call the man an idiot in life or below average intelligence in life.

This is Division 1 Football and we want to win games. Not hire somebody for on the job training and hope they get it by year 4 and have a mediocre season. Keeping SS next year means we better go 7-5 or now it will take even longer for the next guy to possibly turn it around.

 

[TheCusian]

I just want to know what on the football field have you seen from Shafer that leads you to believe given more time he will turn it around. I am not talked about being a good guy. I am not talking about the bottom third in ACC recruiting rankings. I am talking about on field coaching. What leads you to believe Shafer is the guy?

Fielding good defenses for 5 of 7 years.
Year one of Lester and Dungey looks promising.
Special teams are pretty good this year.

 

[OrangeViking]

Lots of people here trying to shine a turd or put lipstick on a pig. Call it what it is. GROB ruined people so much that a bad hire can almost look average sometimes.

And then there are some that throw turds at things that just need more polish, or would rather butcher the pig.

 

[Millhouse]

Fielding good defenses for 5 of 7 years.
Year one of Lester and Dungey looks promising.
Special teams are pretty good this year.

debatable definition of good
conflating lester and dungey
who cares

 

[phil77]

Fielding good defenses for 5 of 7 years.
Year one of Lester and Dungey looks promising.
Special teams are pretty good this year.

I am not sure what to make of the offense yet. Is it the offense or is it Dungey. I am leaning towards Dungey. His ability to extend plays and make something out of nothing has masked the warts of the offense IMO. I will give Lester/Shafer credit for finding Dungey and getting him to Syracuse.

I think Shafer is a great guy but I think he is a defensive coordinator and should be a head coach especially at a P5 school.

 

[ThruWayWest]

The last 3 losses

SS has had 1 game where he played like we all want and that was the LSU game. He went for 4th downs and coached with recklessness that was enjoyable.

Agreed. Then sometimes he is reckless at the wrong times. It is a vicious cycle

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

The last 3 losses
1. Virginia- not calling TO w/25 seconds left before UVA's last FG, not going for 2 when the D was gassed in 2nd OT.
2. Pitt- the squib kick giving Pitt 3 points in a 3 point loss.
3. Florida State- the not running the clock down before calling TO.

Last year
1. Boston College- fake FG punt from the BC 33.
2. Pitt- punting from Midfield down 21 in the 4th quarter on 4th and 1.

I don't care to go thru each game but these 5 came to me in a matter of seconds.

SS has had 1 game where he played like we all want and that was the LSU game. He went for 4th downs and coached with recklessness that was enjoyable.

Wasn't there a bonehead coaching decision in this year's CMU game too? I think it was a punt around midfield on a 4th and short where a 1st down would have sealed the deal in regulation.

 

[TheCusian]

debatable definition of good
conflating lester and dungey
who cares

Not all that debatable. But if you want to go above avg, we've done that 5 out of 7
Separating the two is just confirmation of your bias against Lester
All the people who cared about special teams last year

 

[TheCusian]

I am not sure what to make of the offense yet. Is it the offense or is it Dungey. I am leaning towards Dungey. His ability to extend plays and make something out of nothing has masked the warts of the offense IMO. I will give Lester/Shafer credit for finding Dungey and getting him to Syracuse.

I think Shafer is a great guy but I think he is a defensive coordinator and should be a head coach especially at a P5 school.

I think it's impossible to tell. The only time you can really credit the QB and not the system is when he freelances. And half the time he does that he turns it over or gets sacked. The direction Lester has him going is making him a better QB.

 

[Millhouse]

Not all that debatable. But if you want to go above avg, we've done that 5 out of 7
Separating the two is just confirmation of your bias against Lester
All the people who cared about special teams last year

yards per play
2015 100
2014 26
2013 48
2012 72
2011 59
2010 7

you want to call 48 and 59 good.

 

[TheCusian]

yards per play
2015 100
2014 26
2013 48
2012 72
2011 59
2010 7

you want to call 48 and 59 good.

S&P+ D

2015 74
2014 33
2013 37
2012 54
2011 63
2010 42
2009 51

Good is subjective. Average is not. 120 teams, 60 is average, 5 out of 7 better than average

 

[IthacaBarrel]

Yep, things happen. They were still 2-4 and 4-5 though. We also needed to beat a mediocre USF team on the last play on the game. Luck breaks both ways.

But then that magical 4 game run.

Memmmmmorieeees!

Like it was the 87 sugar bowl run!!!

 

[Millhouse]

S&P+ D

2015 74
2014 33
2013 37
2012 54
2011 63
2010 42
2009 51

Good is subjective. Average is not. 120 teams, 60 is average, 5 out of 7 better than average

don't you have a little skepticism about the defense being 74th? i'm still going with yards per play. do we really think 40% of college football has a worse defense?

 

[TheCusian]

don't you have a little skepticism about the defense being 74th? i'm still going with yards per play. do we really think 40% of college football has a worse defense?

I go with what the stats say man.

 

[Chip]

And yes, he took a time out. They got the score the next play, though, right? Must have said something right during the time out. And by the way, much better to take a time out on 2nd and goal then rush a play on that down, not convert points, then take a time out on 3rd and goal and only have one shot at the end zone.

No problem with taking the timeout, but you let the play clock wind down first. You don't call it right away. That's honestly pre-school level for a head coach in that situation.

Then in the off chance that you botch a kick before halftime a week after a bad kicking decision before halftime, there wouldn't be enough time on the clock for FSU to do much anyway.

Of course, you might reply and say FSU could take a timeout. But then they have less timeouts to work with on their final drive.

It was the final nail for me. Maybe it didn't matter in the FSU game, but that stuff will matter for us in close games going forward.