ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment | Page 10 | Syracusefan.com

ACC, PAC-12, and BIG alliance / conference realignment

Alsacs said:
The idea Texas A&M and Auburn are ahead of Miami and Michigan in your landscape just shows you don’t look at the overall picture.

Texas A&M and Virginia Tech are basically the same level program wise.
A&M has been better than 4-4 in SEC conference play only 3 times.
With Johnny Manziel they went 6-2 in 2012.
They went 5-3 in 2018.
Last year they went 8-1 and only played 2 ranked SEC teams last year.
Got killed by Bama and beat Florida by 3.

A&M is completely overrated by you.

Miami and Michigan are better programs.
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With all due respect, and as a firm believer in the glory and respect of our beloved ‘Boys of Syracuse’, and as a native Syracusan, I believe that I may be able to bring a little more light to the discussion of where A&M may be in the national pecking order of strength in the collegiate football universe…..
First, I would find it difficult to believe that either UM program would fare any better than Texas A&M in any year that they would have to compete for a football title from the SEC West division.
Texas A&M had enough clout and program strength to shed its former principal and most hated rival in all sports and leave it scrambling for life support in football program relevance. A&M’s Texas recruiting profile has gotten better each year and ut has withered despite massive financial and past historical advantages competing against most collegiate universities including against A&M and some wasted political advantages from also being located at the Capital of Texas.
The historical fact that A&M could single handedly derail both ut’s and OU’s planned exodus to the PAC10 a few years ago may be another significant sign of program strength that few if any other program would have had the capacity or temerity to pull off when they did.
From the appearance of our perspective in the state of Texas, ut will always appear to have come to the SEC as a 2nd fiddle to A&M because of its own failure of dominance in its own selfishly created Big12/LHN network windfall paradigm and now it’s having to grovel for some restoration of past glory by trying to play a form of reputation catch up to its former perceived greatness by transferring into the SEC.
The salary given to Jimbo Fisher of $75 for 10 years is only small potatoes as well when compared to the just under $500M renovation of Kyle Field which the university paid by 2015 after only 2 years of construction.
The ‘12th man’ history at Texas A&M is so pronounced in its longevity and its state wide application and tradition that it was patented in 1989 and even the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL pay an annual rights fee to the university for the rights to use some of this term in a very limited way…e.g…only within the Seahawks stadium, never with the full name ‘The 12th man’ and never on any merchandise sale because of a fiercely defended patent infringement policy on its beloved property.
When I was born in St. Joseph’s in Syracuse, the state of NY had about 10% of the population of the US. Today, Texas has about 50% more population than NY and is adding about 500K citizens just in the legal variety each year.
With all of these massive state strategic foundational financial advantages and not counting many other economic engines too numerous to count here, Texas A&M is poised to not only be a visible flagship of collegiate US football in the heart of the economic engine of this country, but under any reasonable stewardship can only grow into a greater mantle of authority and program excellence over the perceived and foreseeable future.
Nevertheless, even in this climate, despite these things, I raised my children to be SU fans for life. My youngest son was widely known as an SU sports fanatic even though he attended A&M as an undergrad and post graduate student. He still wears his SU gear deep within all areas of Texas today. :)
However, I truly believe that that this era is not of the Bo Schembechler UM Wolverines of 1970 nor even the Jimmy Johnson UM Hurricanes of 1982, both a couple of generations ago. If we need to recognize the shifting importance of conference realignments, it may also be time to reevaluate who we believe are the current pillars of college football relevance going forward.
Reasonable minds may agree to differ but I believe that the argument of the current football program hierarchy would be difficult to overcome by insisting that the shrinking state of most things in ‘pure’ Michigan including its football team as well, almost never competing successfully against its former peers at Ohio State and also with the decidedly non college experience at UM in Miami, Florida, I believe that these former football factories will be unable to compete or consistently sustain any perch of football peer excellence that would be easily expected to thrive at Texas A&M compared to the others in the current landscape without any other unforeseen massive and systemic changes.
 
texacuse said:
With all due respect, and as a firm believer in the glory and respect of our beloved ‘Boys of Syracuse’, and as a native Syracusan, I believe that I may be able to bring a little more light to the discussion of where A&M may be in the national pecking order of strength in the collegiate football universe…..
First, I would find it difficult to believe that either UM program would fare any better than Texas A&M in any year that they would have to compete for a football title from the SEC West division.
Texas A&M had enough clout and program strength to shed its former principal and most hated rival in all sports and leave it scrambling for life support in football program relevance. A&M’s Texas recruiting profile has gotten better each year and ut has withered despite massive financial and past historical advantages competing against most collegiate universities including against A&M and some wasted political advantages from also being located at the Capital of Texas.
The historical fact that A&M could single handedly derail both ut’s and OU’s planned exodus to the PAC10 a few years ago may be another significant sign of program strength that few if any other program would have had the capacity or temerity to pull off when they did.
From the appearance of our perspective in the state of Texas, ut will always appear to have come to the SEC as a 2nd fiddle to A&M because of its own failure of dominance in its own selfishly created Big12/LHN network windfall paradigm and now it’s having to grovel for some restoration of past glory by trying to play a form of reputation catch up to its former perceived greatness by transferring into the SEC.
The salary given to Jimbo Fisher of $75 for 10 years is only small potatoes as well when compared to the just under $500M renovation of Kyle Field which the university paid by 2015 after only 2 years of construction.
The ‘12th man’ history at Texas A&M is so pronounced in its longevity and its state wide application and tradition that it was patented in 1989 and even the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL pay an annual rights fee to the university for the rights to use some of this term in a very limited way…e.g…only within the Seahawks stadium, never with the full name ‘The 12th man’ and never on any merchandise sale because of a fiercely defended patent infringement policy on its beloved property.
When I was born in St. Joseph’s in Syracuse, the state of NY had about 10% of the population of the US. Today, Texas has about 50% more population than NY and is adding about 500K citizens just in the legal variety each year.
With all of these massive state strategic foundational financial advantages and not counting many other economic engines too numerous to count here, Texas A&M is poised to not only be a visible flagship of collegiate US football in the heart of the economic engine of this country, but under any reasonable stewardship can only grow into a greater mantle of authority and program excellence over the perceived and foreseeable future.
Nevertheless, even in this climate, despite these things, I raised my children to be SU fans for life. My youngest son was widely known as an SU sports fanatic even though he attended A&M as an undergrad and post graduate student. He still wears his SU gear deep within all areas of Texas today. :)
However, I truly believe that that this era is not of the Bo Schembechler UM Wolverines of 1970 nor even the Jimmy Johnson UM Hurricanes of 1982, both a couple of generations ago. If we need to recognize the shifting importance of conference realignments, it may also be time to reevaluate who we believe are the current pillars of college football relevance going forward.
Reasonable minds may agree to differ but I believe that the argument of the current football program hierarchy would be difficult to overcome by insisting that the shrinking state of most things in ‘pure’ Michigan including its football team as well, almost never competing successfully against its former peers at Ohio State and also with the decidedly non college experience at UM in Miami, Florida, I believe that these former football factories will be unable to compete or consistently sustain any perch of football peer excellence that would be easily expected to thrive at Texas A&M compared to the others in the current landscape without any other unforeseen massive and systemic changes.
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Longhorn fan?
 
texacuse said:
With all due respect, and as a firm believer in the glory and respect of our beloved ‘Boys of Syracuse’, and as a native Syracusan, I believe that I may be able to bring a little more light to the discussion of where A&M may be in the national pecking order of strength in the collegiate football universe…..
First, I would find it difficult to believe that either UM program would fare any better than Texas A&M in any year that they would have to compete for a football title from the SEC West division.
Texas A&M had enough clout and program strength to shed its former principal and most hated rival in all sports and leave it scrambling for life support in football program relevance. A&M’s Texas recruiting profile has gotten better each year and ut has withered despite massive financial and past historical advantages competing against most collegiate universities including against A&M and some wasted political advantages from also being located at the Capital of Texas.
The historical fact that A&M could single handedly derail both ut’s and OU’s planned exodus to the PAC10 a few years ago may be another significant sign of program strength that few if any other program would have had the capacity or temerity to pull off when they did.
From the appearance of our perspective in the state of Texas, ut will always appear to have come to the SEC as a 2nd fiddle to A&M because of its own failure of dominance in its own selfishly created Big12/LHN network windfall paradigm and now it’s having to grovel for some restoration of past glory by trying to play a form of reputation catch up to its former perceived greatness by transferring into the SEC.
The salary given to Jimbo Fisher of $75 for 10 years is only small potatoes as well when compared to the just under $500M renovation of Kyle Field which the university paid by 2015 after only 2 years of construction.
The ‘12th man’ history at Texas A&M is so pronounced in its longevity and its state wide application and tradition that it was patented in 1989 and even the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL pay an annual rights fee to the university for the rights to use some of this term in a very limited way…e.g…only within the Seahawks stadium, never with the full name ‘The 12th man’ and never on any merchandise sale because of a fiercely defended patent infringement policy on its beloved property.
When I was born in St. Joseph’s in Syracuse, the state of NY had about 10% of the population of the US. Today, Texas has about 50% more population than NY and is adding about 500K citizens just in the legal variety each year.
With all of these massive state strategic foundational financial advantages and not counting many other economic engines too numerous to count here, Texas A&M is poised to not only be a visible flagship of collegiate US football in the heart of the economic engine of this country, but under any reasonable stewardship can only grow into a greater mantle of authority and program excellence over the perceived and foreseeable future.
Nevertheless, even in this climate, despite these things, I raised my children to be SU fans for life. My youngest son was widely known as an SU sports fanatic even though he attended A&M as an undergrad and post graduate student. He still wears his SU gear deep within all areas of Texas today. :)
However, I truly believe that that this era is not of the Bo Schembechler UM Wolverines of 1970 nor even the Jimmy Johnson UM Hurricanes of 1982, both a couple of generations ago. If we need to recognize the shifting importance of conference realignments, it may also be time to reevaluate who we believe are the current pillars of college football relevance going forward.
Reasonable minds may agree to differ but I believe that the argument of the current football program hierarchy would be difficult to overcome by insisting that the shrinking state of most things in ‘pure’ Michigan including its football team as well, almost never competing successfully against its former peers at Ohio State and also with the decidedly non college experience at UM in Miami, Florida, I believe that these former football factories will be unable to compete or consistently sustain any perch of football peer excellence that would be easily expected to thrive at Texas A&M compared to the others in the current landscape without any other unforeseen massive and systemic changes.
Expand...
The myth that the SEC West is ridiculously hard is part of the stigma about the SEC as a whole.

Alabama is on a different level.
LSU is a better program but they can be beaten.
Auburn is a good program but they aren’t great every year.
Ole Miss/Mississippi State/Arkansas are nothing special.

Again A&M has gone 4-4 in 8 game regular season 5 of 8 times.

That isn’t a ridiculous schedule.
Alabama is 1 loss.

A&M isn’t a better program than Michigan or Miami.

Harbaugh has taken Michigan to 2 NY6 in the last 5 years.
They can’t beat Ohio State.

A&M wouldn’t beat Ohio State.

Michigan is a better program easily.
A&M is a slightly better Virginia Tech.
A&M having leverage to stop the 6 Big XII teams to the PAC-10 doesn’t make them a blueblood.

They wanted to get out of Texas shadow. Texas is an actual blueblood. So they went to the SEC to get their own brand because they were stuck with Texas.
They didn’t even want Oklahoma or Texas coming into the SEC.

This was a reverse Virginia-Virginia Tech situation. A&M to be told to shut up by the SEC.

The college football expansion is going to get shelved because A&M leaked this OU/UT expansion into the SEC to try and stop it and now the other conferences aren’t going to give ESPN more time on its contract and reward the SEC.

So thanks blueblood A&M you did stop the expansion of the playoff.

A&M is a good program but they aren’t close to a blueblood.

They would be a bishop or knight on a chess board not even a rook.
 
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DaCuse said:
Will ND be part of this alliance?
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I don't see why, they want a 12 team playoff so they can stay indy as long as possible and have a better shot of making the playoffs. This alliance is also about keeping the playoffs the same our adding in conference champs and a few at large. If that happens the ND is not in a good position.
 
Killdozer said:
I don't see why, they want a 12 team playoff so they can stay indy as long as possible and have a better shot of making the playoffs. This alliance is also about keeping the playoffs the same our adding in conference champs and a few at large. If that happens the ND is not in a good position.
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3...2...1...
 
Alsacs said:
The myth that the SEC West is ridiculously hard is part of the stigma about the SEC as a whole.

Alabama is on a different level.
LSU is a better program but they can be beaten.
Auburn is a good program but they aren’t great every year.
Ole Miss/Mississippi State/Arkansas are nothing special.

Again A&M has gone 4-4 in 8 game regular season 5 of 8 times.

That isn’t a ridiculous schedule.
Alabama is 1 loss.

A&M isn’t a better program than Michigan or Miami.

Harbaugh has taken Michigan to 2 NY6 in the last 5 years.
They can’t beat Ohio State.

A&M wouldn’t beat Ohio State.

Michigan is a better program easily.
A&M is a slightly better Virginia Tech.
A&M having leverage to stop the 6 Big XII teams to the PAC-10 doesn’t make them a blueblood.

They wanted to get out of Texas shadow. Texas is an actual blueblood. So they went to the SEC to get their own brand because they were stuck with Texas.
They didn’t even want Oklahoma or Texas coming into the SEC.

This was a reverse Virginia-Virginia Tech situation. A&M to be told to shut up by the SEC.

The college football expansion is going to get shelved because A&M leaked this OU/UT expansion into the SEC to try and stop it and now the other conferences aren’t going to give ESPN more time on its contract and reward the SEC.

So thanks blueblood A&M you did stop the expansion of the playoff.

A&M is a good program but they aren’t close to a blueblood.

They would be a bishop or knight on a chess board not even a rook.
Expand...
In my last reply, I took the time to shed some light on why the Texas A&M football program would be more well regarded as a collegiate football power in today’s landscape versus your desire to classify a definition of a ‘blue blood’.
Rather than devolve into a subject of how ut got caught cooking the financial books who along with OU being the catalyst of why A&M left the putrid shadow of the Longhorns and that Texas A&M had the capacity and desire to go against generations of Texas football tradition in order to show itself more than capable to compete outside the political and onerous football shadow in Austin, TX, I lift up the University of Nebraska as another example of an institution who revolTed against the strong arming of ut and thus left the Big12 to seek an allegedly more level or favorable playing field for itself. Unfortunately for them, without the state of Texas recruiting pipeline to augment itself, Nebraska has slowly reverted itself to a middle of the pack institution at best despite its potential inclusion as an historical blue blood institution as well.
Exhibited in this example over the last 20 years, as well as the within the other arguments I submitted for your earlier purview, it may be easier to classify who is a blue blood of football glory past, rather than identify who may be more of a football power of today.
Also, just as it has become exceedingly difficult for the Orangemen to attain or even maintain its former lofty perch as a ‘rook’ in collegiate football circles, in my effort to find some common ground with you, it would impossible to extricate the culture and immensely deep and talented football recruiting hotbed of Texas and thus say that A&M is nothing short of a very good football prospect for many ‘blue blood’ type of recruits and its prospects. The future does not appear to be dimming anytime soon. The SEC was salivating at the prospect of A&M joining its conference and the relationship was and is surely mutually beneficial.
Saying that Texas A&M did not even want OU or ut to be in the SEC would be correct in the same way that Syracuse would not want Conecticut or Rutgers to be in the ACC, except that again the ut fraudsters were doing the equivalent of holding the annual BIG EAST tourney at the Garden with all of the conference members and trying to keep most or all of the revenues for itself while letting every other school fight for its own survival over the leftover scraps. If Syracuse were already in a football league with Penn State today, would Syracuse agree to such a financial disparity? While the ACC has been acknowledged on this forum as having offered the Longhorns the ND football conference hybrid membership, the Aggies had the financial and political clout to stare down the ut financial malfeasance and tell the alleged ‘blue blood’ to go pound sand much like Jake Crouthamel may have done to Joe Paterno when Penn State tried to corner the market on the fiefdom of Eastern football. Texas A&M acted out what happened with ut in much the same manner as I witnessed back in the 1970’s with our beloved SU during its formational BigEast conference heyday. Perhaps this may be a reason why I may be able to identify The Who is who from the perspective of both of our regions more easily.
I would raise the level of discourse to include that the reasons for Texas A&M‘s rise to collegiate football relevance and power is a challenge to the more renowned hierarchy of some others football glory past. This may also acknowledge that it may be perceived as a threat to the pecking order just like the need for ND to join a football conference in full one day because the order of things change from generation to generation and this merits a more careful look at our perceived biases in this examination. In likewise measure, the dynamics of collegiate football power relevance are constantly evolving and in no way would I say that either UM Miami, or UM Ann Arbor have as bright or powerful a future as the fertile, populous and fervent football hotbed of Texas and Texas A&M inclusively. If you lived down here you might surely see that the lifeblood of all of Texas state football interests cannot be simply extrapolated without realizing that this rising tide lifts all of the boats down here and is the reason why so much football DNA reverberates throughout Texas and the south. ESPN knows this, the SEC knows this and whether you wish to acknowledge a different status today, next year or next decade, time is on the side of the foundational, cultural and economically fertile ground of Texas A&M and that its inclusion into the discussion of thought of its place in the football hierarchy is very bright from whatever perch you would like to start them out at. It is kind of like when I used to root for Roy’s Runts back in the day and the national press in 1975 told Coach Danforth that there was no way that that little old SU could possibly compete with the vaunted 4 corners offense of the mighty Dean Smith and Phil Ford led North Carolina Tarheels and yet Roy had the wherewithal and cunning, snickering confidence to glowingly retort that UNC would have to be ahead in order for their plan to work. All these years later, inclusive of our Eastern Regional conquest in 1975, as a native Syracusan, I would never take a back seat to any other alleged basketball blue blood. I defended JAB as the visionary and workaholic behind SU basketball even while much of the fan base groused at his existence as our coach and clamored for his removal when it seemed convenient in their eyes to do so. Again, the parallels of the SU perspective of then and the A&M situation of now paint some significant similarities…even down to the fertile hoops recruiting grounds of NYC, PHL etc. helping to elevate SU like Texas football cannot help but rise the fortunes of Texas A&M immeasurably.
Lastly, since it has become a significant point of your discussion to deemphasize the 4-4 conference record of Texas A&M over the last several years, I will post the most recent full season of collegiate football records of Michigan and Texas A&M which would be 2019 and see if this 4-4 record may be more of a sign of irrelevance of mediocrity or a sign of something else.

GDateTimeDaySchoolOpponentConfPtsOppWLStreakNotes
1Aug 31, 2019Sat(7) MichiganMiddle Tennessee StateCUSAW402110W 1
2Sep 7, 2019Sat(7) MichiganArmyIndW242120W 2
3Sep 21, 2019Sat(11) Michigan@(13) WisconsinBig TenL143521L 1
4Sep 28, 2019Sat(20) MichiganRutgersBig TenW52031W 1
5Oct 5, 2019Sat(19) Michigan(14) IowaBig TenW10341W 2
6Oct 12, 2019Sat(16) Michigan@IllinoisBig TenW422551W 3
7Oct 19, 2019Sat(16) Michigan@(7) Penn StateBig TenL212852L 1
8Oct 26, 2019Sat(19) Michigan(8) Notre DameIndW451462W 1
9Nov 2, 2019Sat(14) Michigan@MarylandBig TenW38772W 2
10Nov 16, 2019Sat(14) MichiganMichigan StateBig TenW441082W 3
11Nov 23, 2019Sat(12) Michigan@IndianaBig TenW391492W 4
12Nov 30, 2019Sat(10) Michigan(2) Ohio StateBig TenL275693L 1
13Jan 1, 2020Wed(17) MichiganN(9) AlabamaSECL163594L 2Citrus Bowl
GDateTimeDaySchoolOpponentConfPtsOppWLStreakNotes
1Aug 29, 2019Thu(12) Texas A&MTexas StateSun BeltW41710W 1
2Sep 7, 2019Sat(12) Texas A&M@(1) ClemsonACCL102411L 1
3Sep 14, 2019Sat(16) Texas A&MLamarNon-MajorW62321W 1
4Sep 21, 2019Sat(17) Texas A&M(8) AuburnSECL202822L 1
5Sep 28, 2019Sat(23) Texas A&MNArkansasSECW312732W 1
6Oct 12, 2019Sat(24) Texas A&M(1) AlabamaSECL284733L 1
7Oct 19, 2019SatTexas A&M@Ole MissSECW241743W 1
8Oct 26, 2019SatTexas A&MMississippi StateSECW493053W 2
9Nov 2, 2019SatTexas A&MUTSACUSAW451463W 3
10Nov 16, 2019SatTexas A&MSouth CarolinaSECW30673W 4
11Nov 23, 2019Sat(24) Texas A&M@(4) GeorgiaSECL131974L 1
12Nov 30, 2019SatTexas A&M@(1) LSUSECL75075L 2
13Dec 27, 2019FriTexas A&MN(25) Oklahoma StateBig 12W242185W 1Texas Bowl
Rather than devolving into the strength of which school may have the stronger schedule, I will baically let this season speak for itself.
The discussion of whether UM Ann Arbor is definitely a better football program is surely debatable and may not be the foregone conclusion made out to be.
We all know that UM Miami is not the ACC Coastal flagship that even the ACC conference had hoped it would be to date.
Lastly, in a modicum of respect to tu, it is a well known practice here in Texas that any university of Texas antagonist will refer to its instructions disparagingly as ‘tu’ instead of the ’U of T’. Since I have a son who graduated from law school at this university some time ago, I have begrudgingly kept the lower case acronym but turned the initials back around from time to time. Perhaps now I will go back to little ‘tu’ in much the same way that as a Syracusan, I do not wish to acknowledge or care for Hoyas, Huskies or now Dukies.. Lol.
There is probably no need for me to debate this topic any longer, after all we are on the same team right? I am only speaking or texting from the peculiar perspective of having lived in both locales for decades rather than just as a mere armchair quarterback critiquing from afar with little to offer. My intention is only to augment the chat not effectuate a personal agenda. And reasonable minds may agree to differ, life is too short! LOL :)
 
CousCuse said:
Why would the ACC want to join an "alliance" against the SEC? Especially with the B1G who has designs on taking the ACC apart.
Expand...
Because the SEC wants the whole pie. If the playoff expanded to 12 teams, they would expect 4 slots.

Any talk about expansion, scheduling arrangements, new bowl tie-ins, etc., is totally prematrure. Nothing is going to happen unless and until the SEC is "defanged". Once they are under control, then people can talk about those things.
 
texacuse said:
In my last reply, I took the time to shed some light on why the Texas A&M football program would be more well regarded as a collegiate football power in today’s landscape versus your desire to classify a definition of a ‘blue blood’.
Rather than devolve into a subject of how ut got caught cooking the financial books who along with OU being the catalyst of why A&M left the putrid shadow of the Longhorns and that Texas A&M had the capacity and desire to go against generations of Texas football tradition in order to show itself more than capable to compete outside the political and onerous football shadow in Austin, TX, I lift up the University of Nebraska as another example of an institution who revolTed against the strong arming of ut and thus left the Big12 to seek an allegedly more level or favorable playing field for itself. Unfortunately for them, without the state of Texas recruiting pipeline to augment itself, Nebraska has slowly reverted itself to a middle of the pack institution at best despite its potential inclusion as an historical blue blood institution as well.
Exhibited in this example over the last 20 years, as well as the within the other arguments I submitted for your earlier purview, it may be easier to classify who is a blue blood of football glory past, rather than identify who may be more of a football power of today.
Also, just as it has become exceedingly difficult for the Orangemen to attain or even maintain its former lofty perch as a ‘rook’ in collegiate football circles, in my effort to find some common ground with you, it would impossible to extricate the culture and immensely deep and talented football recruiting hotbed of Texas and thus say that A&M is nothing short of a very good football prospect for many ‘blue blood’ type of recruits and its prospects. The future does not appear to be dimming anytime soon. The SEC was salivating at the prospect of A&M joining its conference and the relationship was and is surely mutually beneficial.
Saying that Texas A&M did not even want OU or ut to be in the SEC would be correct in the same way that Syracuse would not want Conecticut or Rutgers to be in the ACC, except that again the ut fraudsters were doing the equivalent of holding the annual BIG EAST tourney at the Garden with all of the conference members and trying to keep most or all of the revenues for itself while letting every other school fight for its own survival over the leftover scraps. If Syracuse were already in a football league with Penn State today, would Syracuse agree to such a financial disparity? While the ACC has been acknowledged on this forum as having offered the Longhorns the ND football conference hybrid membership, the Aggies had the financial and political clout to stare down the ut financial malfeasance and tell the alleged ‘blue blood’ to go pound sand much like Jake Crouthamel may have done to Joe Paterno when Penn State tried to corner the market on the fiefdom of Eastern football. Texas A&M acted out what happened with ut in much the same manner as I witnessed back in the 1970’s with our beloved SU during its formational BigEast conference heyday. Perhaps this may be a reason why I may be able to identify The Who is who from the perspective of both of our regions more easily.
I would raise the level of discourse to include that the reasons for Texas A&M‘s rise to collegiate football relevance and power is a challenge to the more renowned hierarchy of some others football glory past. This may also acknowledge that it may be perceived as a threat to the pecking order just like the need for ND to join a football conference in full one day because the order of things change from generation to generation and this merits a more careful look at our perceived biases in this examination. In likewise measure, the dynamics of collegiate football power relevance are constantly evolving and in no way would I say that either UM Miami, or UM Ann Arbor have as bright or powerful a future as the fertile, populous and fervent football hotbed of Texas and Texas A&M inclusively. If you lived down here you might surely see that the lifeblood of all of Texas state football interests cannot be simply extrapolated without realizing that this rising tide lifts all of the boats down here and is the reason why so much football DNA reverberates throughout Texas and the south. ESPN knows this, the SEC knows this and whether you wish to acknowledge a different status today, next year or next decade, time is on the side of the foundational, cultural and economically fertile ground of Texas A&M and that its inclusion into the discussion of thought of its place in the football hierarchy is very bright from whatever perch you would like to start them out at. It is kind of like when I used to root for Roy’s Runts back in the day and the national press in 1975 told Coach Danforth that there was no way that that little old SU could possibly compete with the vaunted 4 corners offense of the mighty Dean Smith and Phil Ford led North Carolina Tarheels and yet Roy had the wherewithal and cunning, snickering confidence to glowingly retort that UNC would have to be ahead in order for their plan to work. All these years later, inclusive of our Eastern Regional conquest in 1975, as a native Syracusan, I would never take a back seat to any other alleged basketball blue blood. I defended JAB as the visionary and workaholic behind SU basketball even while much of the fan base groused at his existence as our coach and clamored for his removal when it seemed convenient in their eyes to do so. Again, the parallels of the SU perspective of then and the A&M situation of now paint some significant similarities…even down to the fertile hoops recruiting grounds of NYC, PHL etc. helping to elevate SU like Texas football cannot help but rise the fortunes of Texas A&M immeasurably.
Lastly, since it has become a significant point of your discussion to deemphasize the 4-4 conference record of Texas A&M over the last several years, I will post the most recent full season of collegiate football records of Michigan and Texas A&M which would be 2019 and see if this 4-4 record may be more of a sign of irrelevance of mediocrity or a sign of something else.

GDateTimeDaySchoolOpponentConfPtsOppWLStreakNotes
1Aug 31, 2019Sat(7) MichiganMiddle Tennessee StateCUSAW402110W 1
2Sep 7, 2019Sat(7) MichiganArmyIndW242120W 2
3Sep 21, 2019Sat(11) Michigan@(13) WisconsinBig TenL143521L 1
4Sep 28, 2019Sat(20) MichiganRutgersBig TenW52031W 1
5Oct 5, 2019Sat(19) Michigan(14) IowaBig TenW10341W 2
6Oct 12, 2019Sat(16) Michigan@IllinoisBig TenW422551W 3
7Oct 19, 2019Sat(16) Michigan@(7) Penn StateBig TenL212852L 1
8Oct 26, 2019Sat(19) Michigan(8) Notre DameIndW451462W 1
9Nov 2, 2019Sat(14) Michigan@MarylandBig TenW38772W 2
10Nov 16, 2019Sat(14) MichiganMichigan StateBig TenW441082W 3
11Nov 23, 2019Sat(12) Michigan@IndianaBig TenW391492W 4
12Nov 30, 2019Sat(10) Michigan(2) Ohio StateBig TenL275693L 1
13Jan 1, 2020Wed(17) MichiganN(9) AlabamaSECL163594L 2Citrus Bowl
GDateTimeDaySchoolOpponentConfPtsOppWLStreakNotes
1Aug 29, 2019Thu(12) Texas A&MTexas StateSun BeltW41710W 1
2Sep 7, 2019Sat(12) Texas A&M@(1) ClemsonACCL102411L 1
3Sep 14, 2019Sat(16) Texas A&MLamarNon-MajorW62321W 1
4Sep 21, 2019Sat(17) Texas A&M(8) AuburnSECL202822L 1
5Sep 28, 2019Sat(23) Texas A&MNArkansasSECW312732W 1
6Oct 12, 2019Sat(24) Texas A&M(1) AlabamaSECL284733L 1
7Oct 19, 2019SatTexas A&M@Ole MissSECW241743W 1
8Oct 26, 2019SatTexas A&MMississippi StateSECW493053W 2
9Nov 2, 2019SatTexas A&MUTSACUSAW451463W 3
10Nov 16, 2019SatTexas A&MSouth CarolinaSECW30673W 4
11Nov 23, 2019Sat(24) Texas A&M@(4) GeorgiaSECL131974L 1
12Nov 30, 2019SatTexas A&M@(1) LSUSECL75075L 2
13Dec 27, 2019FriTexas A&MN(25) Oklahoma StateBig 12W242185W 1Texas Bowl
Rather than devolving into the strength of which school may have the stronger schedule, I will baically let this season speak for itself.
The discussion of whether UM Ann Arbor is definitely a better football program is surely debatable and may not be the foregone conclusion made out to be.
We all know that UM Miami is not the ACC Coastal flagship that even the ACC conference had hoped it would be to date.
Lastly, in a modicum of respect to tu, it is a well known practice here in Texas that any university of Texas antagonist will refer to its instructions disparagingly as ‘tu’ instead of the ’U of T’. Since I have a son who graduated from law school at this university some time ago, I have begrudgingly kept the lower case acronym but turned the initials back around from time to time. Perhaps now I will go back to little ‘tu’ in much the same way that as a Syracusan, I do not wish to acknowledge or care for Hoyas, Huskies or now Dukies.. Lol.
There is probably no need for me to debate this topic any longer, after all we are on the same team right? I am only speaking or texting from the peculiar perspective of having lived in both locales for decades rather than just as a mere armchair quarterback critiquing from afar with little to offer. My intention is only to augment the chat not effectuate a personal agenda. And reasonable minds may agree to differ, life is too short! LOL :)
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I get everything you posted and well done I am sure that took a considerable amount time.

Texas A&M isn’t a lightweight I know that. They are top 25 program all time.
Michigan though is definitely top 10 and Miami’s 5 NCs since 1983 would make them better as a program as well.

I am not saying A&M is hot garbage. They were used by the SEC to get the conference into Texas. A&M wanted out of Texas choke hold like you said. Osborne and Nebraska didn’t like the fact Oklahoma sided with Texas rather than the old Big 8 so he took the paycheck from the Big Ten when the Big Ten flirted with Missouri. The Big Ten didn’t think Nebraska was available but they were fed up of Texas and the Longhorn Network discussions.

With this said thinking of a chess board again Michigan would be a queen piece.
A&M would be a Knight or Bishop.
Miami would be a rook.

Miami has been down because of coaching. If they get the right coach it’s an elite football school.
A&M has to deal with Alabama.
 
Hoo's That said:
Yes. We need every vote.
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Notre Dame is not with the alliance.
The alliance is against the expansion of the CFB.
ND’s AD is on the CFB expansion committee that wants expansion.

Notre Dame is for Notre Dame not the ACC.
The ACC is a voting bloc but ND isn’t part of it.

The alliance is 40 of 65 possible votes.
They don’t need ND.
 
Hoo's That said:
Because the SEC wants the whole pie. If the playoff expanded to 12 teams, they would expect 4 slots.

Any talk about expansion, scheduling arrangements, new bowl tie-ins, etc., is totally prematrure. Nothing is going to happen unless and until the SEC is "defanged". Once they are under control, then people can talk about those things.
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The best teams should get spots in the playoffs.
 
CousCuse said:
The best teams should get spots in the playoffs.
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This sounds good and would be the goal in a national sport with more parity. The steps the SEC has taken in the last six months have demonstrated they will do anything to make it a regional sport they are kings of.

The whole goal of conference champions being weighted by the committee is to make sure it’s not regionally biased. Make it 8 and have it be the top two teams from each conference. 3rd best team wants to be in the playoffs? Fine. Do better and get to 2nd. That’s why you play a season.

(“We’re the best conference so our 4th best team should be in over their 2nd” is a fine argument but it’s cleaner for Oklahoma to say “We won our conference” … It gets worse if the SEC decides to ramp up the number of conference games while the other conferences are forced to for TV $. How do we know Oklahoma is the 4th best team in the SEC if they only played one other P4 team OOC?)
 
CousCuse said:
The best teams should get spots in the playoffs.
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Yeah, and ...

That's not the point. The point is how many teams are in the playoff to begin with. The more slots, the more they argue their 2-loss team is better than your 1-loss team.
 
TheCusian said:
This sounds good and would be the goal in a national sport with more parity. The steps the SEC has taken in the last six months have demonstrated they will do anything to make it a regional sport they are kings of.

The whole goal of conference champions being weighted by the committee is to make sure it’s not regionally biased. Make it 8 and have it be the top two teams from each conference. 3rd best team wants to be in the playoffs? Fine. Do better and get to 2nd. That’s why you play a season.

(“We’re the best conference so our 4th best team should be in over their 2nd” is a fine argument but it’s cleaner for Oklahoma to say “We won our conference” … It gets worse if the SEC decides to ramp up the number of conference games while the other conferences are forced to for TV $. How do we know Oklahoma is the 4th best team in the SEC if they only played one other P4 team OOC?)
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Wouldn't it make more sense for the ACC to add 1 more team, WVU IMO, and have a scheduling alliance with the SEC ( ND included in this for 16 teams). Play 2 SEC teams a year, 1 home 1 away and the 4 ACC teams and 4 SEC teams that play each other keep that and play 1 other team.
 
CousCuse said:
Wouldn't it make more sense for the ACC to add 1 more team, WVU IMO, and have a scheduling alliance with the SEC ( ND included in this for 16 teams). Play 2 SEC teams a year, 1 home 1 away and the 4 ACC teams and 4 SEC teams that play each other keep that and play 1 other team.
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The SEC is exploring getting rid of all out of conference games. Get it through your head...they are only out for themselves. They do not care to prop up the ACC.
 
SUATO92 said:
The SEC is exploring getting rid of all out of conference games. Get it through your head...they are only out for themselves. They do not care to prop up the ACC.
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They are exploring this because the other 3 conferences are discussing making an alliance against them. They know that Clemson, FSU, GTECH amd Lville will be very unhappy to lose their long standing in-state rivalry games.
 
CousCuse said:
They are exploring this because the other 3 conferences are discussing making an alliance against them. They know that Clemson, FSU, GTECH amd Lville will be very unhappy to lose their long standing in-state rivalry games.
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I agree with your reasoning, but the SEC, IMO, will never do it.
 
SUATO92 said:
The SEC is exploring getting rid of all out of conference games. Get it through your head...they are only out for themselves. They do not care to prop up the ACC.
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That wouldn't happen. They love their OOC cupcakes the week before rivalry week. At best I think they go 10 conference games (5 + 5/5). That way they get through the entire conference home and away in 4 seasons. Teams like Bama will play 2 OOC G5 cupcakes to complete the schedule (7 home games). Teams like Kentucky will play an OOC rival (Louisville) and one G5 cupcake. Mid level and lower level SEC teams will still be willing to play a P5 game OOC.
 
Ha! I’d love the SEC to go it alone, name the conference champion the “national champion”…

Hubris and idiocy. I won’t watch one second of it lol
 
The proposed alliance is not out to harm the SEC but rather check it. The alliance would still want exposure in the Southeast. To create a league excluding the SEC would be a frivolous as the SEC going it alone, each side would alienate a significant market to their detriment.

The NFL works because the entire country is covered. What makes anyone think CFB would be different? CFB could be regionalized but that weakens everybody, possibly even the networks. I remember my years in CO, LA, and AZ, while a die hard Orangemen fan (as we all were back then), I would watch what games against could and catch a local game but I had no interest in most of the other nearby (relative term) teams. Having friends, families, and lives, most of us cannot watch CFB all weekend so we watch what we want and work around our preferred games. While I enjoy LSU, AZ State, and TAMU, I don't often make time to watch them as I will watch SU and then watch other games as time permits.

The alliance is more about keeping the SEC in check and maintaining relative balance among the P5(4). Eventually, the schools and conferences will realize their tru bargaining power is as one unit, like the pros. Until the, the networks, especially ESPN, will have the upper hand in controlling payouts and keeping some teams up and other teams down.

Just my take.
 
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