An honest look at UVa today and tomorrow

[SU94]

We are 0-3 against UVa I believe. Only ACC team we have not topped yet.
IMHO, I think nationally that Tony Bennett is a top-15 coach. Maybe better.

Bennett has really won a lot of games thanks to the efforts of four primary players. Perrantes, Gill, Brogdon and Anderson (who went pro after last year). They are all very skilled, smart and bring something unique to the table. They also play strong defense, rebound well and have stuck around the program for four years (except Anderson, who played three). They were all very well-rounded players (and this is definitely a testament to Bennett). Just noticed that Gill and Brogdon are 5th-year players.

What will be interesting for UVa/Bennett is what happens AFTER this year.

Perrantes still has another season if he wants, but the other three will be done. Will they stick at/near the top of the conference? They are recruiting pretty well now, but honestly, I don’t see anyone on the roster that addresses the skill sets of the four players I mentioned. I know they have one McDonalds AA coming in next year.

I am sure that some of UVa’s young player will step up when the opportunity presents itself next year (and beyond), but I feel like I have seen this before.

Remember when Pitt was fantastic around 2007-09. Consistent Top 5-10 team. They had Levance Fields, Sam Young, Chevy Troutman, DeJuan Blair. They were very good and Nova nipped them on a last-second shot in the Elite 8 in 2009. Since then, Pitt has not yet reclaimed that top 10 perch. They’ve been very good, but they have been unable to recruit the offensive talents needed for Dixon’s system to thrive.

I see a strong similarity for UVa in the future. They need to cash in this year, because after this, they’ll likely sink a bit in the standings. No, not to the levels of Wake or BC, but they might synch up with Miami, NC State or Florida State. Nothing terrible. Just not residing in the upper-reaches of the league.

So, my point is, as much as I admire Bennett, and the man can coach, we won't know for sure about the strength of his program until these four special players move on. I think it'll be tough to maintain, but only time will tell.

 

[CusefanATL]

We are 0-3 against UVa I believe. Only ACC team we have not topped yet.
IMHO, I think nationally that Tony Bennett is a top-15 coach. Maybe better.

Bennett has really won a lot of games thanks to the efforts of four primary players. Perrantes, Gill, Brogdon and Anderson (who went pro after last year). They are all very skilled, smart and bring something unique to the table. They also play strong defense, rebound well and have stuck around the program for four years (except Anderson, who played three). They were all very well-rounded players (and this is definitely a testament to Bennett). Just noticed that Gill and Brogdon are 5th-year players.

What will be interesting for UVa/Bennett is what happens AFTER this year.

Perrantes still has another season if he wants, but the other three will be done. Will they stick at/near the top of the conference? They are recruiting pretty well now, but honestly, I don’t see anyone on the roster that addresses the skill sets of the four players I mentioned. I know they have one McDonalds AA coming in next year.

I am sure that some of UVa’s young player will step up when the opportunity presents itself next year (and beyond), but I feel like I have seen this before.

Remember when Pitt was fantastic around 2007-09. Consistent Top 5-10 team. They had Levance Fields, Sam Young, Chevy Troutman, DeJuan Blair. They were very good and Nova nipped them on a last-second shot in the Elite 8 in 2009. Since then, Pitt has not yet reclaimed that top 10 perch. They’ve been very good, but they have been unable to recruit the offensive talents needed for Dixon’s system to thrive.

I see a strong similarity for UVa in the future. They need to cash in this year, because after this, they’ll likely sink a bit in the standings. No, not to the levels of Wake or BC, but they might synch up with Miami, NC State or Florida State. Nothing terrible. Just not residing in the upper-reaches of the league.

So, my point is, as much as I admire Bennett, and the man can coach, we won't know for sure about the strength of his program until these four special players move on. I think it'll be tough to maintain, but only time will tell.

Pitt was ranked in the top 10 (at some point) every year from 01/02 to 11/12 (and top 20 in 12/13 and 13/14)

and dont forget we beat them when they were ranked #2 in 03 about to move to #1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_Panthers_men's_basketball_seasons

 

[Orangeblue2]

A lot of smugness in this assessment. When you say they will sink to the "level of Miami", I think you have to insert SU in at that level too. We are 13 years removed from Carmelo and GMac. Also, in UVa's rise to the top 4 in the ACC, you completely overlooked the importance of guys like Akil Mitchell, Darion Adkins, and Joe Harris, who are all marginal pros and were great defensive players. Bennett doesn't chase the AAU/Nike/Adidas superstars who the recruiting gurus constantly focus on. The guys we are told again and again are deciding between Duke, Kansas, UK, Arizona/UNC etc.
I looked up who they are bring in next year, and in addition to the McDonald's AA SG from Indiana, they have a 6-9 transfer from Memphis ( Austin Nichols) who averaged 13.8 with 4 blocks a game as a soph. And a 6'9" African kid ( Mamadi Diakite) who prepped near Charlottesville and is redshirting this year to let his body develop.
I just disagree with the underlying premise that I have seen advanced on here that UVa is a temporary power. Just look at how they share the ball and how well coached they are. Bennett is a big winner and they are not going to slip too far or for long. With JB, K, Roy Williams, Pitino ( because of taint of scandal after scandal)and Larranaga all in their last 5 years ( at most), I see Bennett as the rising Prince of ACC Coaches.

 

[orangenirvana]

Virginia will be a consistent ACC power for years. They aren't going anywhere. I detest their brand of ball but Bennett will always win games with it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Bennett is a lot better than Dixon IMO. I know people hate his offensive philosophy, but it's effective.

He gets players. He had Klay Thompson at Washington State.

He's got Kyle guy who is a burger boy and 3 other four stars coming in next year. Plus they have Nichols the transfer who was a 5 star recruit.

I'm sure they won't be great next year, because they will be young, but they will still be talented.

The real question will be whether or not he stays at UVA if some other high profile jobs open up.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I think it is a reasonable post. Virginia has had a perfect mix of guys for the system in recent years and got some growth out of lower rated players. This is all a testament to Bennett, he is clearly a top level coach. Anymore - every program has to re-prove itself year after year. The difference between Syracuse and Virginia is that Perrantes would have gone pro after last year and Brogdon would have probably done the same. The risk for Virginia is getting their profile raised high enough that good to very good performance in that program can get enough pub for a 1st round draft pick. That is where Syracuse is.

 

[SU94]

I think it is a reasonable post. Virginia has had a perfect mix of guys for the system in recent years and got some growth out of lower rated players. This is all a testament to Bennett, he is clearly a top level coach. Anymore - every program has to re-prove itself year after year. The difference between Syracuse and Virginia is that Perrantes would have gone pro after last year and Brogdon would have probably done the same. The risk for Virginia is getting their profile raised high enough that good to very good performance in that program can get enough pub for a 1st round draft pick. That is where Syracuse is.

Let's be clear, I greatly admire Bennett and UVa's program. I want to beat them, however. I admire their core talents the last 3-4 years. I just wonder if they will always be so fortunate to have their players develop both individually as well as within the context a TEAM, while keeping said core together for 3-4 years (even 5 for Brogdon) at a time. My point is, it does not always work out this well.

I've been an SU fan since the early days of the Dome (I am in my mid-40s). To me, the thing I am most proud of as a SU fan/alum is not "our" 2003 National Championship. Rather, it is the amazing consistency of the program JAB has built. Without doing a study on it, I'd say SU is on a short list of the top 5 programs when it comes to consistent winning. Very few do it better.

This is what Bennett has to prove. Can he get the talent and mold it to win big consistently? Yes, he had Klay Thompson a Wash State. But Purdue had Cliff Robinson. Georgia had Dominique Wilkins. Wake had Chris Paul and Tim Duncan. Bennett has more to do (and that's okay, he's doing great so far --- a decade into his coaching career). However, one great grouping of players (which he has now) does not a coaching legend make.

Hey, anyone could critique the SU program and raise similar questions as to how SU will look in 3-5 years, when Boeheim is retired. Fair game. I just offered my impression on Bennett's program and where they are headed. I think they are headed for strong results. I just don't think his Cavalier program is apt to cast UNC, Duke, Louisville or Syracuse aside on a regular basis.

As an aside, the only scenario I see Tony Bennett leaving Virginia is for the NBA.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I like Virginia basketball (love Charlottesville too) and they aren't going anywhere. They might not be highlight reel city but the ball doesn't stick, have solid players, good ballhandlers, guys who can make shots at all levels, move their feet on D, etc. They don't mug you like Dixon.

 

[Newhouser]

What I like most about him - he isn't whining to the refs after every call. He also doesn't make the show about him. Refreshing.

 

[pearl31]

uva is not as good this year as the last two years, and will drop off a bit more next year (losing Brogdan/Gill/Tobey is significant, regardless of which 4* freshmen might be coming in) - but yes, they will always be in the upper 1/3 of the league as long as Bennett is there.
OP's point, though, that it's been a sort of "perfect storm" 4 years for them is valid - and not sniffing a final4 in that span should ultimately be seen as a failure at least on some level

 

[HOFCeluck]

A lot of smugness in this assessment. When you say they will sink to the "level of Miami", I think you have to insert SU in at that level too. We are 13 years removed from Carmelo and GMac.

I have no idea what this means.

 

[CorduroyG]

virginia will be a middle of the pack team next year. these core players the last couple years are excellent and they wont be able to just reload like some teams, a big dropoff is coming.

 

[Dave85]

We are 0-3 against UVa I believe. Only ACC team we have not topped yet.
IMHO, I think nationally that Tony Bennett is a top-15 coach. Maybe better.

Bennett has really won a lot of games thanks to the efforts of four primary players. Perrantes, Gill...

UVa ran really good plays the first half by passing into the key and then passing to someone cutting to the basket. And then they had a play were someone camped on the baseline and was passed from the top center of the zone to the baseline like an Alley-oop. And they did try to run an Alley-oop but not very well. I think in the second half they tried to run the same plays and we stole the ball each time. I think JB made adjustments.

But there was no doubt this team practiced plays to beat our zone. I think our main problem was matchup personal. We just could not do both stop the 3s and prevent the inside game. Gill killed us on the inside and Perrantes killed us on the outside. Even with the flaws this team showed a lot of heart by scoring 6 points in the last 30 seconds. We had them scared for a bit. At least they are playing competitive.

 

[Dave85]

I like Virginia basketball (love Charlottesville too) and they aren't going anywhere. They might not be highlight reel city but the ball doesn't stick, have solid players, good ballhandlers, guys who can make shots at all levels, move their feet on D, etc. They don't mug you like Dixon.

I hate it when Dixon is out on the court. If he had a chance I think he would try to trip one of our players as they went by!

 

[bevosu]

I heard an interview on WAER with a Virginia connected guy...I think he was part of their radio crew?

What he said sounded a lot like what we expect out of coach Babers. He said that when Bennett took over the coaching job he emphasized getting players that fit his system. The star system is not key with his recruiting approach.

He said it would take a few years to get the pieces needed to put his kind of team on the court. He was right. His system has worked everywhere that he has coached. He doesn't need or necessarily want the 5 star, here today gone tomorrow, recruits. He wants guys that fit his system. Bennett will keep Virginia competitive.

Sounds like the way a lot of syr fans think that Babers will try and bring the football program back to life.

 

[Orangeblue2]

I have no idea what this means.

I'll tell you what it ( 'smugness' comment) means. Those who dismiss Va. as a flash in the pan have lost some perspective of SU hoops. Just because we were one of the big boys in the Big East and play in the cavernous Dome doesn't mean SU has yet earned a top spot in the ACC conversation. I would understand better if Duke or UNC fans brushed aside UVa. ascendance , since those programs have ( I believe) 9 Natty's in the last 33 years and have a sense of entitlement. I don't think we ( with one Natty in the 39 year JB era)) should be dismissing a program that seems to me to be about where K had Duke in '86.
On another note, someone pointed out a problem we have is keeping talented guys around for more than one or two years. Maybe it's a flaw in the recruiting model? Michigan State and Va. seem to get players who don't have one foot out the door as soon as they sign a LOI.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I'll tell you what it ( 'smugness' comment) means. Those who dismiss Va. as a flash in the pan have lost some perspective of SU hoops. Just because we were one of the big boys in the Big East and play in the cavernous Dome doesn't mean SU has yet earned a top spot in the ACC conversation. I would understand better if Duke or UNC fans brushed aside UVa. ascendance , since those programs have ( I believe) 9 Natty's in the last 33 years and have a sense of entitlement. I don't think we ( with one Natty in the 39 year JB era)) should be dismissing a program that seems to me to be about where K had Duke in '86.
On another note, someone pointed out a problem we have is keeping talented guys around for more than one or two years. Maybe it's a flaw in the recruiting model? Michigan State and Va. seem to get players who don't have one foot out the door as soon as they sign a LOI.

Our standing as a basketball program doesn't change by virtue of changing conferences. There's a HUGE gap between programs with even one title and those without...at least IMO.

I think I'm just arguing for the sake of argument though because I agree with what your saying overall.

 

[Orangeblue2]

virginia will be a middle of the pack team next year. these core players the last couple years are excellent and they wont be able to just reload like some teams, a big dropoff is coming.

What makes this thread fascinating to me is just this: the concept of "reloading". If by "reloading" you mean getting hot shot guys with street agents and possees who jump from one "prep school" to another, well then YEAH, you are right.
The downside of that approach to recruiting is only a couple of schools can do it. And we are not one of them. I'd rather get three 4-stars that fill a specific need every year than shoot for five stars who don't really care about anything but getting to the league ASAP.
If Tyus Battle is as good as we hope, this time next year we will be preparing to say our goodbyes to him. THAT is not a sustainable model. That's why I admire Tony Bennett and think his way is the right way.

 

[pearl31]

That's why I admire Tony Bennett and think his way is the right way.

well, again, we'll see how much longer this run of theirs continues - and if he ever gets them to a final4

 

[KaiserUEO]

Our standing as a basketball program doesn't change by virtue of changing conferences. There's a HUGE gap between programs with even one title and those without...at least IMO.

I think I'm just arguing for the sake of argument though because I agree with what your saying overall.

yeah, but he still completly dismissed the F4 run of 3 years ago by tying us to Melo.

 

[SRHoo]

From the UVa perspective, next year will be interesting. Hard to project, because we're losing so much experience, and integrating quite a few new pieces. Talented pieces, but new.

IMO Gill & Tobey are good, but replaceable. Austin Nichols is as talented as Gill offensively (or at least very close), and better defensively. Tobey has shown flashes of greatness, but is one of the most frustrating players not just of the Bennett era, but I can ever remember at UVa. He can look like an All-American one night, and completely disappear after 2-3 quick boneheaded fouls the next night. Diakite is nowhere near as polished as Tobey, but has upside off-the-charts. We also have a freshman (Jarred Reuter) who isn't getting much PT right now because there's just not much available...very skilled though, and extremely high hoops IQ.

Brogdon is who we'll struggle to replace. He's been the constant over the run of the last 3 years, and there's no one on our current roster who projects anywhere near as good. We've got 2 very good inbound G's (one a McD's AA), but they're freshmen. I love Devon Hall's potential, but Brogdon is an all-time great at UVa. Darrius Thompson started off well in the OOC, but hasn't performed as well with the ACC sched. Replacing Brogdon will be a "by committee" approach, but it won't be easy.

Perrantes returns, which will make the transition less painful. I'd expect him and Nichols to lead the scoring most nights, and be as good an inside/outside duo as there is in the league. The question is how will guys like Hall, Thompson, Isaiah Wilkins, Marial Shayok and a couple of others who have played strictly complimentary roles to this point, perform as bigger focal points?

When Mike Scott left, Joe Harris & Akil Mitchell stepped up. When Joe & Akil left, Justin Anderson & Darion Atkins stepped up. There is a history of "next man up" since Bennett has been coach...he and the staff do a great job of player development. There will be alot to replace in 2016-17...I think TB is up to the challenge, and will keep the program among the top 4-5 in the ACC. There could be some growing pains next year though.

 

[SUFan44]

I'll tell you what it ( 'smugness' comment) means. Those who dismiss Va. as a flash in the pan have lost some perspective of SU hoops. Just because we were one of the big boys in the Big East and play in the cavernous Dome doesn't mean SU has yet earned a top spot in the ACC conversation. I would understand better if Duke or UNC fans brushed aside UVa. ascendance , since those programs have ( I believe) 9 Natty's in the last 33 years and have a sense of entitlement. I don't think we ( with one Natty in the 39 year JB era)) should be dismissing a program that seems to me to be about where K had Duke in '86.
On another note, someone pointed out a problem we have is keeping talented guys around for more than one or two years. Maybe it's a flaw in the recruiting model? Michigan State and Va. seem to get players who don't have one foot out the door as soon as they sign a LOI.

Are you really a Syracuse fan? You have 17 posts. All of them coming on UVa threads.

Syracuse went to the Final Four in 2013. Should have gone to the Final Four in 2012 if not for the Fab Melo nonsense. Should have gone in 2010 if not for Rick Jackson's injury. That's three of the last seven years that Syracuse has had a top 5-10 team in the country.

The last three years included a 25-0 start and then last year, we would have been preseason top 5 again if not for two very questionable decisions from kids to leave early for the NBA.

Virginia has a nice program and has proven it can do well in the regular season. But we still have 5 wins over the last three NCAA Tournaments to UVA's 3. And this year still has a long way to go.

I would also like to remind you that Syracuse has had plenty of effective 4-year players. Scoop Jardine, Rick Jackson, Andy Rautins, Kris Joseph, Rakeem Christmas, Trevor Cooney all have played big parts on very good teams. Just to name a few from the past 7 years. I expect Tyler Roberson to take that next step for next year and be a guy that's an integral piece on a very good team. Frank Howard is looking like he could be a four-year contributor. Not to mention Gbinije who is a senior (transfer) who has stayed and done a nice job the last two years.

Not all SU players have one foot out the door, as you say.

 

[wiCuse]

I can't believe no one has mentioned his strong ties to the state of Wisconsin. He is the top target for the Badgers next season. He has obvious ties to the state and would be welcomed with open arms. As Syracuse fans, we should hope for this to happen!

 

[jncuse]

I think it is a reasonable post. Virginia has had a perfect mix of guys for the system in recent years and got some growth out of lower rated players. This is all a testament to Bennett, he is clearly a top level coach. Anymore - every program has to re-prove itself year after year. The difference between Syracuse and Virginia is that Perrantes would have gone pro after last year and Brogdon would have probably done the same. The risk for Virginia is getting their profile raised high enough that good to very good performance in that program can get enough pub for a 1st round draft pick. That is where Syracuse is.

I don't fully buy that. Syracuse tends to recruit more athletic and longer kids many of which have early entry aspirations. You can't recruit Chris Mc and act surprised that he left early.

Not to say any of our early exits were bad kids but certain programs recruit for term and NCAA skill. Virginia, Michigan St, Villanova,

 

[pearl31]

I can't believe no one has mentioned his strong ties to the state of Wisconsin. He is the top target for the Badgers next season. He has obvious ties to the state and would be welcomed with open arms. As Syracuse fans, we should hope for this to happen!

He won't leave UVA for a b1g football school - unless Alvarez (football first everything else a distant second) really really gets generous