Class of 2016 Andrew White III thread - COMMITTED

[Digger]

I'm not someone who ever would have suggested either BJ or Roberson for those roles, and I don't imagine you're actually talking about my opinion; it's just some strawman argument. White wants to play the 2, at least get some minutes there. If you don't think that factors into the school choices of prospects, then you're just not paying attention.

I do agree that JB won't play someone where they're not suited. But how many minutes is Battle going to play PG and Gillon sit on the bench - 10 or so? Fifteen tops? That's how much time White will see at the 2, because White and Battle make a good match as guards. Battle with the ball in his hands can drive and score, or kick to White on the perimeter for 3. It's so obvious, I don't see why you keep refusing to see this lineup possibility, and are being so stubborn about it. The kid shot 41% from three in the Big 10 last year and was a 16 PPG scorer.

We already have Roberson and Lydon as forwards, not counting either freshman. They are both going to play at least 30 minutes a game. One is a senior who is going to average a double double this year, and the other is a first round pick. That leaves maybe 20 minutes between both forward positions, if Thompson and Moyer *never* play. How is White going to average more than 20 minutes a game if he *only* plays forward? The math doesn't work.

That's why, if White comes here, he HAS to play some guard. It's math and it's the personnel. We have 3 PGs and no shooting guards. We have 4 forwards. Where do you see the opportunity to get on the court, if you are White? Exclusively at forward, as you say, or is it likely you are going to get some time at 2G? Where do you see your biggest roster need, if you are JB? You've already got 4 forwards and you have no shooting guard.

You have seen JB play many forwards at the 2G spot over the years, going all the way back to the early 80s. It's one of his hallmarks, really. Just like Duke has been a proponent of 3 guard offenses since before it was popular, and liked to fill one of those spots with an athletic guard who could get some boards. It's their way of playing. Just like JB tends to play 3 forwards, a center and a point guard. It's how they view their preferred personnel in a game.

I'm of the opinion White will get time at the 2, but I completely disagree with the idea we won't have any other true "2s" on the roster next year. Battle is pretty much a prototype 2G imo.

And, legit question, can you give some examples of the natural forwards that Boeheim has played at the top of his zone in the past? I'm honestly curious. The guys that come to mind for me are Pace and Duany, and it's debatable what their natural position was. They both seemed like true swings to me.

I don't even really count Harris. Once Boeheim realized he wasn't a guard, he stopped playing guard.

 

[Shark58]

I'm of the opinion White will get time at the 2, but I completely disagree with the idea we won't have any other true "2s" on the roster next year. Battle is pretty much a prototype 2G imo.

And, legit question, can you give some examples of the natural forwards that Boeheim has played at the top of his zone in the past? I'm honestly curious. The guys that come to mind for me are Pace and Duany, and it's debatable what their natural position was. They both seemed like true swings to me.

I don't even really count Harris. Once Boeheim realized he wasn't a guard, he stopped playing guard.

g

 

[Digger]

g

He's a great example but I always thought G was another one of those natural swing 2/3s. Not really a true F playing out of position at the top of the zone.

Maybe not tho

 

[JLine]

Agree with RF, per the usual. Gotta stop myself from responding to this argument. Just don't understand how people don't see that the fact he's the 3 on D in the zone, somehow means he won't get to showcase his ability to be a 2 in the league. At a different program, yeah. Waste of energy at this point.

Can't wait to watch him shoot, and guard.

 

[jdubs30]

Happy First Day of Classes, VCU!!!!

 

[GoCuse14]

Thursday...magic day

 

[Cusefan0307]

I'm not someone who ever would have suggested either BJ or Roberson for those roles, and I don't imagine you're actually talking about my opinion; it's just some strawman argument. White wants to play the 2, at least get some minutes there. If you don't think that factors into the school choices of prospects, then you're just not paying attention.

I do agree that JB won't play someone where they're not suited. But how many minutes is Battle going to play PG and Gillon sit on the bench - 10 or so? Fifteen tops? That's how much time White will see at the 2, because White and Battle make a good match as guards. Battle with the ball in his hands can drive and score, or kick to White on the perimeter for 3. It's so obvious, I don't see why you keep refusing to see this lineup possibility, and are being so stubborn about it. The kid shot 41% from three in the Big 10 last year and was a 16 PPG scorer.

We already have Roberson and Lydon as forwards, not counting either freshman. They are both going to play at least 30 minutes a game. One is a senior who is going to average a double double this year, and the other is a first round pick. That leaves maybe 20 minutes between both forward positions, if Thompson and Moyer *never* play. How is White going to average more than 20 minutes a game if he *only* plays forward? The math doesn't work.

That's why, if White comes here, he HAS to play some guard. It's math and it's the personnel. We have 3 PGs and no shooting guards. We have 4 forwards. Where do you see the opportunity to get on the court, if you are White? Exclusively at forward, as you say, or is it likely you are going to get some time at 2G? Where do you see your biggest roster need, if you are JB? You've already got 4 forwards and you have no shooting guard.

You have seen JB play many forwards at the 2G spot over the years, going all the way back to the early 80s. It's one of his hallmarks, really. Just like Duke has been a proponent of 3 guard offenses since before it was popular, and liked to fill one of those spots with an athletic guard who could get some boards. It's their way of playing. Just like JB tends to play 3 forwards, a center and a point guard. It's how they view their preferred personnel in a game.

Yeah, I agree with all of this. Not many people expected Gbinije to be the PG at this time last year. They still have Kaleb penciled in. Kind of seems like the similar argument is being made with White at the 3. Ok I'll hush about lineups on the recruiting board now.

 

[jr4750]

He's a grad transfer. They don't sign LOI's. I'm sure they're planning for him to
come. People have said he's already chosen his classes.

To add to this, you would think they also have to arrange his housing, which takes more than an hour to do. Someone has gotta know something concrete at this point. We will all know too, as of this weekend. Thank god this will be over one way or another.

 

[Yegorange]

Hmmm. This being Thursday and all I'm beginning to buy into him just showing up tomorrow. Of course the coaches must know - and some players (MM receiving confirmation the other day?) - but it wouldn't distract from other players reporting too. Big deal, team reporting for preseason camp. But that way, not only would it be cool, but JB and coaches would be able to comment on him - maybe even make a joint announcement.

 

[Orangeman13]

He has housing AND roommates.

 

[Yegorange]

He has housing AND roommates.

Sounds like MM is one of them

 

[EastCoast2]

4 days from classes

 

[Jeremy L.]

"Back to school. Back to school." - VCU Fans

 

[orangenirvana]

I'm not someone who ever would have suggested either BJ or Roberson for those roles, and I don't imagine you're actually talking about my opinion; it's just some strawman argument. White wants to play the 2, at least get some minutes there. If you don't think that factors into the school choices of prospects, then you're just not paying attention.

I do agree that JB won't play someone where they're not suited. But how many minutes is Battle going to play PG and Gillon sit on the bench - 10 or so? Fifteen tops? That's how much time White will see at the 2, because White and Battle make a good match as guards. Battle with the ball in his hands can drive and score, or kick to White on the perimeter for 3. It's so obvious, I don't see why you keep refusing to see this lineup possibility, and are being so stubborn about it. The kid shot 41% from three in the Big 10 last year and was a 16 PPG scorer.

We already have Roberson and Lydon as forwards, not counting either freshman. They are both going to play at least 30 minutes a game. One is a senior who is going to average a double double this year, and the other is a first round pick. That leaves maybe 20 minutes between both forward positions, if Thompson and Moyer *never* play. How is White going to average more than 20 minutes a game if he *only* plays forward? The math doesn't work.

That's why, if White comes here, he HAS to play some guard. It's math and it's the personnel. We have 3 PGs and no shooting guards. We have 4 forwards. Where do you see the opportunity to get on the court, if you are White? Exclusively at forward, as you say, or is it likely you are going to get some time at 2G? Where do you see your biggest roster need, if you are JB? You've already got 4 forwards and you have no shooting guard.

You have seen JB play many forwards at the 2G spot over the years, going all the way back to the early 80s. It's one of his hallmarks, really. Just like Duke has been a proponent of 3 guard offenses since before it was popular, and liked to fill one of those spots with an athletic guard who could get some boards. It's their way of playing. Just like JB tends to play 3 forwards, a center and a point guard. It's how they view their preferred personnel in a game.

I'll continue to say that I would be shocked if White sees time at the 2 on defense. I still think he lacks the lateral speed/quickness required to play at the top of the zone at the level required imo.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'm of the opinion White will get time at the 2, but I completely disagree with the idea we won't have any other true "2s" on the roster next year. Battle is pretty much a prototype 2G imo.

And, legit question, can you give some examples of the natural forwards that Boeheim has played at the top of his zone in the past? I'm honestly curious. The guys that come to mind for me are Pace and Duany, and it's debatable what their natural position was. They both seemed like true swings to me.
.

Battle is a 2G without the jump shot. So, OK, I guess he's a 2, but he's not going to stretch defenses.

Natural SFs who have played guard for us - Erich Santifer, Dave Johnson, Kueth Duany, who you mention, Raf Addison his senior year, Jason Cipolla, Marius Janulis, Scott McCorkle, Lawrence Moten, Lukie Jackson, Todd Burgan, Preston Shumpert got some time at guard as a senior, Mookie Jones, and Michael Gbinije. Is that enough to make a trend?

 

[IthacaMatt]

I'll continue to say that I would be shocked if White sees time at the 2 on defense. I still think he lacks the lateral speed/quickness required to play at the top of the zone at the level required imo.

If you have this lineup on the floor, who plays at the top of the zone?

Battle - White - Lydon - Roberson - Chukwu

 

[KaiserUEO]

If you have this lineup on the floor, who plays at the top of the zone?

Battle - White - Lydon - Roberson - Chukwu

matt, anyone who thinks white wont be getting some run at the 2 this year, just hasn't been watching any JB coached Syracuse basketball in the last 40 years.

 

[RF2044]

He has housing AND roommates.

Well, short of an actual confirmation, that seems like "proof."

 

[KaiserUEO]

Well, short of an actual confirmation, that seems like "proof."

is his Xbox or playstation there yet??

 

[RF2044]

Battle is a 2G without the jump shot. So, OK, I guess he's a 2, but he's not going to stretch defenses.

Natural SFs who have played guard for us - Erich Santifer, Dave Johnson, Kueth Duany, who you mention, Raf Addison his senior year, Jason Cipolla, Marius Janulis, Scott McCorkle, Lawrence Moten, Lukie Jackson, Todd Burgan, Preston Shumpert got some time at guard as a senior, Mookie Jones, and Michael Gbinije. Is that enough to make a trend?

Terrible examples. Many of those players weren't small forwards, and the vast majority of them didn't play guard--at all--at any point in their career.

Johnson got token minutes there as a frosh reserve, and at no other point throughout his career.

Neither did Burgan.

Neither did Shumpert. He got some time at the 4 as a senior, not as a 2.

Neither did McCorkle.

Neither did Luke Jackson.

Mookie Jones barely played... ANY position.

Cippola, Janulis, and Moten were all guards to begin with, who played some out of position at 3 out of team need. They weren't threes transitioning to two--completely the opposite--they were twos who played the three at times because the team lacked other options.

The best example is Rafael Addison, who I'd like to point out [1] graduated in 1986, which makes it a 30 year old "example" of the trend you are claiming, and [2] who couldn't handle the ball worth a lick, which didn't matter because [3] he played with Pearl who had the ball in his hands 100% of the time.

And BTW, Battle can shoot. Your assessment of his skill set is completely off target.

 

[RF2044]

I'll continue to say that I would be shocked if White sees time at the 2 on defense. I still think he lacks the lateral speed/quickness required to play at the top of the zone at the level required imo.

100% correct. Or the handle. Or the passing aptitude required to play guard.

 

[orangenirvana]

If you have this lineup on the floor, who plays at the top of the zone?

Battle - White - Lydon - Roberson - Chukwu

That lineup won't be on the floor. Unless you want to give up two threes per minute.

 

[asj410]

That lineup won't be on the floor. Unless you want to give up two threes per minute.

So as long as we hit three 3s per minute, we should be good!

 

[SUintheVille]

He has housing AND roommates.

Ah yes, but where?

Just kidding.

 

[djorange1989]

He has housing and roommates because he has to have that set up in case he is coming. That can always be canceled. Until I hear him say he is coming, I am still not counting any chickens. Or any game hens. Or something.