Are there any Pro-Shafer's left? | Page 9 | Syracusefan.com

Are there any Pro-Shafer's left?

CuseOnly said:
Yes everybody's roster is supposed to be 85 scholarship players, not making excuses, stating facts. If you DQ 3-4 kids during Fall practice and kick Williams and Broyld just before, then you are not at 85 scholarship players, are you? And 1-2 kids you were counting on don't qualify.

That is what I am saying. Unless of course every team we played did the same thing, then we would be even.

Not saying some of it wasn't self inflicted but it makes a difference.
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I think you will find that NCS for example, had three dismissed for team violations.

We are just not as different as you imagine. We are just bad.
 
SUbear said:
I do not rate Shafer by wins or losses nor by injuries or lack thereof. I rate him by his performance in hiring staff, on field decision making, maintaining composure on the sidelines, and is the team showing progress in playing both as a group and individually. Unfortunately, he falls short in every measurable as a head coach. That is why I believe he should be replaced. Injuries do not and should not enter into his job evaluation.
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And that's a valid opinion.
 
Crusty said:
Re Whigham, I was responding to the statement that players projected to be on the scoutteam were playing. Anyway, these injuries are not exactly devastating when you analyze them. Boston College will have at least 10 out for our game and we will have about 16 some of which are players below the 2 deep. Lost top 3 QBs. Hunt, Dungey, Long. Does this really count as three? I don't think so especially with the emergence of Mahoney. Lost too TE. Moore. Not for very long. Lost Broyld. Even lost Lewis some. Broyld had already slipped below the 2 deep and Lewis was not out for very long. Lost a few on the DL. Johnson, Williams and a couple that escape memory. Don't know how many games they missed. Lost Arciniega - valid but not out for whole season. Lost our best performing LB in Bennett late in the season. Have had to play a real young DB. Even a couple of those like Winfield and Ellison got hurt. Williams has been hurt. We've been playing a soph and 3 freshman. Other teams have been playing underclassmen as well and in some cases more than us. The youth excuse only goes so far. Other players have been out a game or two as expected. As with every team. Last year was valid IMO. This year we are not really any worse off than other teams. Hell, home many backup QB's have we played this year?
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Why isn't it 3 QBs? All 3 got hurt and as much as Mahoney has surprised, he is the walk on. Not many schools lost their top 2, maybe 3 and had to go with a walkon.

Moore has been out most of the season it seems. He hadn't come back so I don't know what not for long means.

Broyld was 3rd string in the spring for one reason. He had to prove something off the field. He didn't so he was kicked off. We all know if he had done what he needed to do, he wouldn't have been 3rd string. He would have played a key role. Lewis missed 2 games.

Those DL guys missed all the games. They would have been in the DT rotation.

Bennett been out the past several games. Is he back for BC?

Some of the guys we lost aren't even in the 16 man list. You would be hard pressed to find a team that has had all the preseason and in season losses we have. And what happened to Morgan too? I keep forgetting him.
 
rrlbees said:
Why isn't it 3 QBs? All 3 got hurt and as much as Mahoney has surprised, he is the walk on. Not many schools lost their top 2, maybe 3 and had to go with a walkon.

Moore has been out most of the season it seems. He hadn't come back so I don't know what not for long means.

Broyld was 3rd string in the spring for one reason. He had to prove something off the field. He didn't so he was kicked off. We all know if he had done what he needed to do, he wouldn't have been 3rd string. He would have played a key role. Lewis missed 2 games.

Those DL guys missed all the games. They would have been in the DT rotation.

Bennett been out the past several games. Is he back for BC?

Some of the guys we lost aren't even in the 16 man list. You would be hard pressed to find a team that has had all the preseason and in season losses we have. And what happened to Morgan too? I keep forgetting him.
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morgan is not injured he is just slow
 
rrlbees said:
Why isn't it 3 QBs? All 3 got hurt and as much as Mahoney has surprised, he is the walk on. Not many schools lost their top 2, maybe 3 and had to go with a walkon.

Moore has been out most of the season it seems. He hadn't come back so I don't know what not for long means.

Broyld was 3rd string in the spring for one reason. He had to prove something off the field. He didn't so he was kicked off. We all know if he had done what he needed to do, he wouldn't have been 3rd string. He would have played a key role. Lewis missed 2 games.

Those DL guys missed all the games. They would have been in the DT rotation.

Bennett been out the past several games. Is he back for BC?

Some of the guys we lost aren't even in the 16 man list. You would be hard pressed to find a team that has had all the preseason and in season losses we have. And what happened to Morgan too? I keep forgetting him.
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I think Bennett is back for BC.

That is my point, players go in and out for injuries on every team and I don't think the effect is all that different for us. I think we played against three back up QB and Pitt without Connor, and a few notable others. So are dismissals. NCS for example had three for our game.

As I have said before, I think we have been bad for so long that we have forgotten what good is. We are not the only team with young players, concussion protocols, injuries, suspensions and dismissals and we can't keep rationalizing that we are the unluckiest team in the ACC. Just my opinion.
 
Crusty said:
I think Bennett is back for BC. That is my point, players go in and out for injuries on every team and I don't think the effect is all that different for us. I think we played against three back up QB and Pitt without Connor, and a few notable others. So are dismissals. NCS for example had three for our game. As I have said before, I think we have been bad for so long that we have forgotten what good is. We are not the only team with young players, concussion protocols, injuries, suspensions and dismissals and we can't keep rationalizing that we are the unluckiest team in the ACC. Just my opinion.
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I know it's your opinion. And it's understandable. But I don't think anyone would find a team that has had the number we've had in total for all reasons. Not starters and rotation guys at least.
 
rrlbees said:
I know it's your opinion. And it's understandable. But I don't think anyone would find a team that has had the number we've had in total for all reasons. Not starters and rotation guys at least.
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ehh I don't know about that. Straight up injury wise I think we have been healthier then most this year. As in total turnover during the offseason I don't think it's much more then any other program. Plus some were our choices.
 
FreakTalksAboutSU said:
That was hyperbole.

We certainly arent going after anyone as good as Cristobal
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You mean 27 and 47 at FIU mario cristobal? He was 20-26 in his conference.

That's an unbelievable record, how can't he be at the top of everyone's list.
 
To answer the OP - not anymore. Yesterday was the final straw.

Love the guy, but the neverending in game ineptness is maddening. And Bullough's talk of halftime "adjustments" was laughable. Sure, they were more competent in the 2nd half, but why are they continuously unprepared in the first? Opposing O's have been tearing our D to shreds what feels like every single game. Even after the bye week.

As many have said, we'll never outtalent most of our opponents. While talent level has improved, it is coaching that's key at Syracuse. And the current staff has shown no indication they're learning/improving.
 
I'm for Shafer. Given the "marathon vs. a sprint" comment, I didn't really think that this year would be all-important to the argument for retaining him or cutting him loose. If it is true that he's gone, I think it's a shame, as this year was always going to be an uphill struggle with the youth and depth issues on defense. Then the QB injuries started day one. McDonald was Shafer's fault, but I like the young team he's been building and would like to see the recruiting momentum continue. It would be very disheartening to think we'll have to start from scratch again and invest years before assessing whether the new hire is the real deal.
 
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019Jules said:
I'm for Shafer. Given the "marathon vs. a sprint" comment, I didn't really think that this year would be all-important to the argument for retaining him or cutting him loose. If it is true that he's gone, I think it's a shame, as this year was always going to be an uphill struggle with the youth and depth issues on defense. Then the QB injuries started day one. McDonald was Shafer's fault, but I like the young team he's been building and would like to see the recruiting momentum continue. It would be very disheartening to think we'll have to start from scratch again and invest years before assessing whether the new hire is the real deal.
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I keep hearing this start from scratch stuff and I don't get it.

I also am sick of hearing people talk about the youth and depth issues like they're reasons for shafer's poor gametime decision making.
 
Chris02M said:
he is compared to some wrs we have been facing
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Coverage and speed are two different things. He's been timed at 4.38. I'd wager that's as fast as almost anyone he's seen. Potato/Potatoe.


And, he hasn't really been beat as much as other Secondary players because he hasn't been on the field nearly as much.
 
rrlbees said:
I know it's your opinion. And it's understandable. But I don't think anyone would find a team that has had the number we've had in total for all reasons. Not starters and rotation guys at least.
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Quality of the players injured is at least as important as the quantity. For example, Pitt losing Conner for the season is arguably more detrimental than losing several on our list for a few games. Also, losing players like AJ had no real effect on our results.

I would also ask why so many injuries? Is it just bad luck or bad technique or what?
 
Crusty said:
Quality of the players injured is at least as important as the quantity. For example, Pitt losing Conner for the season is arguably more detrimental than losing several on our list for a few games. Also, losing players like AJ had no real effect on our results.

I would also ask why so many injuries? Is it just bad luck or bad technique or what?
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Not to jump in, but, I don't necessarily agree with your first point. Each player is significant, and there's some type of effect that travels down the roster when they're injured. When there's more injuries, that effect multiplies. I would argue that losing AJ, or any one of your multiple backups, is critical. You're saying its doesn't matter here because he didn't play. Well, he might've very well played had he not been consistently injured. And you can't predict what those results may have been.

Whereas with one player, he may be a great player, but the backup or backups have filled in just fine. Star player's worth gets blown out of proportion. Still a big loss in Pitt's case, no doubt, but not anything that derailed what they were trying to do.

Also, I've come to a point where you've gotta ask, how are we training our players? We've been snakebit so much over the years. I know that they studied this, but, it's been an abnormality for far too long, the unexpected is becoming the expected.
 
Shenexon said:
I'm pro-Shafer without regard to his tenure as SU head coach. It sounds as though Coyle has made a decision and will support it. I believe that Shafer and his staff are good guys and wish this year had been kinder to them. I for one will take no pleasure in his demise. I always cheer for the good guys...
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As is often the case, couldn't have put it better myself.
 
orangenirvana said:
I'm more optimistic than that.
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OK...Coyle is on the clock...

I really hope that you and BPO and Crusty (and others) are correct that Coyle has some $ to work with...

When I read about LSU paying 15 MM to buy out Miles, it feels like we are bringing a Yugo to Le Mans...
 
Finwad32 said:
Not to jump in, but, I don't necessarily agree with your first point. Each player is significant, and there's some type of effect that travels down the roster when they're injured. When there's more injuries, that effect multiplies. I would argue that losing AJ, or any one of your multiple backups, is critical. You're saying its doesn't matter here because he didn't play. Well, he might've very well played had he not been consistently injured. And you can't predict what those results may have been.

Whereas with one player, he may be a great player, but the backup or backups have filled in just fine. Star player's worth gets blown out of proportion. Still a big loss in Pitt's case, no doubt, but not anything that derailed what they were trying to do.

Also, I've come to a point where you've gotta ask, how are we training our players? We've been snakebit so much over the years. I know that they studied this, but, it's been an abnormality for far too long, the unexpected is becoming the expected.
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Our players can't get out of the way. With a few exceptions (mostly the Florida kids like Estime, Ish, etc..), they're totally physically outmatched out there. When we run a sweep or a bubble screen, the whole defense is in front of the ball carrier. When our opposition runs one, we have 2, maybe 3 defenders there. Did you watch us trying to "tackle" NCSt's TE? Or Furnette, or Gallman or any of the other ACC running backs we couldn't contain. It's a joke. We have a talent problem the size of Trump's ego.
 
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