Are we the St. Johns of college football?

[Eric15]

Historically strong program, relatively high on the all-times wins list, with success in the 1950s as well as the 80s/90s. Legendary players, coaches and personalities. Dwindling success and fan support throughout the 2000s through today. Difficult to fill our building unless it's a marquee opponent who will themselves bring a lot of fans. Every now and then capable of a big upset that generates excitement.

The bar of success for St. Johns is getting to the NIT and the occasional NCAA tourney bid, the bar of success for us is getting to a bowl game with hopefully the occasional 8 or 9 win season.

Is that an apt comparison?

 

[Clemson Troll]

Maybe an NC State (football) or a Georgia Tech (football) would be a better comparison.

 

[mountaincuse]

I don't want to agree, but I can't help but do so at the current moment.

We have potential to get back in the right direction though soon so I feel (hope?) in the long run that it won't be an apt comparison.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I feel a little embarrassed when people brag about Brown or Davis or even Mcnabbb...as if other cfb fans gaf about our success from 1959.

 

[OrangePA]

No.

Not even close.

We are on the rise to new heights.

 

[anomander]

I would agree, but it seems like SJU essentially gave up and accepted their fate. It took a while, but it looks like we are now trying to get back to where we were. The facilities were just upgraded last season, and the most important piece of the puzzle our $13m IPF will be completed by Spring. Even in our own conference not every school can say they have that. I believe it was Dabo Swinney who said their newly completed IPF got them an extra 2 or 3 big recruits last year, could have been someone else though? I feel like this staff can recruit, and the upgraded facilities should help. I will give it 5 years before agreeing with you.

 

[NKR1978]

Unfortunately I think it will be a lot harder for us to get where we want to be than it will for st. John's.

But I think we should look to Northwestern as a way to approach and build a program. Their entire history until their Rose Bowl season was miserable. And since then they've had a good run of success.

I'd love to get to a bowl 3/4 years and be ranked once every five years with the occasional magical season where we make the ACC CG every 8-10 years. That would be a good place for us to be.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2

 

[Acuse]

This is one of the many times where it's great to be part of the forums, to engage in discussions like this instead of "die marrone die"

I think it's a great comparison and more-or-less accurate one but like anomander said, we definitely haven't accepted this fate. We're upgrading our facilities, TRYING to improve recruiting/attendance, and making an effort to improve (ie. joining the ACC). I have much more hope for our program (without my orange glasses on) than St. Johns will ever have. Although...St. Johns had a hell of a run with Coach Lavin before his unfortunate cancer situation.

 

[retro44]

time to move on ...

 

[dasher]

No.

Not even close.

We are on the rise to new heights.

Really?

 

[Crusty]

No

 

[omniorange]

Maybe an NC State (football) or a Georgia Tech (football) would be a better comparison.

NC State would be a terrible football comparison. They have never, ever, ever been as good as we once were in the late 80s throughout the 90s.

GT's success since 2006 is basically where the more rational football fans on this board hope we get back to - with three divisional titles and a conference championship in the past 7 years.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Bayside44]

Historically strong program, relatively high on the all-times wins list, with success in the 1950s as well as the 80s/90s. Legendary players, coaches and personalities. Dwindling success and fan support throughout the 2000s through today. Difficult to fill our building unless it's a marquee opponent who will themselves bring a lot of fans. Every now and then capable of a big upset that generates excitement.

The bar of success for St. Johns is getting to the NIT and the occasional NCAA tourney bid, the bar of success for us is getting to a bowl game with hopefully the occasional 8 or 9 win season.

Is that an apt comparison?

I grew up a St. John's fan. I think that place is structurally too flawed to resurrect a hoops program (even though it takes a hand full of kids to make it happen). Walk around that campus in 2013, there are not a lot of kids that care about Big East hoops, or frankly grew up with English as the first language at home.

We have some issues, and too many guys here live way in the past, but we're more middle of the pack ham and egger now. Which frankly beats a lot of the alternatives (see UConn).

 

[orange79]

Well, if you count Helms titles, we still beat them 2-1.

 

[OrangePA]

Really?

Yes.

ACC. New indoor facility. New really big revenue stream.

Not even close.

 

[mountaincuse]

Yes.

ACC. New indoor facility. New really big revenue stream.

Not even close.

That's what I was getting to in my post.

We shouldn't be, but can't help but feel that way currently until the product shows different

 

[Scooch]

Yes.

ACC. New indoor facility. New really big revenue stream.

Not even close.

We'll see. There are loads of perennially mediocre programs in the Big 5 conferences that have the same revenue streams and shiny toys.

But no, the St. John's comparison is not accurate.

 

[weakstraw]

I am a graduate of St. John's and grew up in the shadow of the Dome and went to Nottingham. That is a great analogy. Both schools have a history like very few and were powerhouses in the region at one time. Both have a problem with facilities, but Johhnies have MSG. One thing St. John's does not have is housing, which makes it very hard in this day of arms races. Maybe 750 people live on campus now and the BB players live in dorms.

I believe both schools are making good steps in turning their fortunes around. A strong culture instilled in both schools with thre need for recruiting to keep pace with demand. Now you just need a few things to fall our way.

 

[OrangePA]

That's what I was getting to in my post.

We shouldn't be, but can't help but feel that way currently until the product shows different

We have won two bowl games in three seasons for gosh sakes.

We're coming off an 8-5 season!

Come on!

So we lost to Clemson. Chill out.

 

[mountaincuse]

We have won two bowl games in three seasons for gosh sakes.

We're coming off an 8-5 season!

Come on!

So we lost to Clemson. Chill out.

I'm the most optimistic guy around, but I'm not taking about Clemson, just recent history.

I'm all ready for Saturday though and believing we will be in a bowl game again building on our future and the analogy will not be apt

 

[Bayside44]

I am a graduate of St. John's and grew up in the shadow of the Dome and went to Nottingham. That is a great analogy. Both schools have a history like very few and were powerhouses in the region at one time. Both have a problem with facilities, but Johhnies have MSG. One thing St. John's does not have is housing, which makes it very hard in this day of arms races. Maybe 750 people live on campus now and the BB players live in dorms.

I believe both schools are making good steps in turning their fortunes around. A strong culture instilled in both schools with thre need for recruiting to keep pace with demand. Now you just need a few things to fall our way.

Jason Buchanon???

 

[supp]

I grew up a St. John's fan. I think that place is structurally too flawed to resurrect a hoops program (even though it takes a hand full of kids to make it happen). Walk around that campus in 2013, there are not a lot of kids that care about Big East hoops, or frankly grew up with English as the first language at home.

We have some issues, and too many guys here live way in the past, but we're more middle of the pack ham and egger now. Which frankly beats a lot of the alternatives (see UConn).

Right. We're like any program that allowed a good coach to stay on too long, that made a few bad coaching hires and programmatic decisions following up and allowed for its program to become a little dated. In that sense, we're like St. John's but unlike St. John's, everything seems to be in place for sustained success in the future (conference, facilities, money, television, etc.). We just have to find out if we've got the right coach to do it.

 

[ZoneAttack]

No, no similarity at all. SU is now in a stable conference that provides enough revenue to be successful in football. Plus we play football. Plus our hoops and lax are elite, SJU has nothing elite.

The challenge is for the SU admins to use the revenue and build a strong football program. SJU is a Big East that is on its way to being relatively equal to the MAAC.

Historically strong program, relatively high on the all-times wins list, with success in the 1950s as well as the 80s/90s. Legendary players, coaches and personalities. Dwindling success and fan support throughout the 2000s through today. Difficult to fill our building unless it's a marquee opponent who will themselves bring a lot of fans. Every now and then capable of a big upset that generates excitement.

The bar of success for St. Johns is getting to the NIT and the occasional NCAA tourney bid, the bar of success for us is getting to a bowl game with hopefully the occasional 8 or 9 win season.

Is that an apt comparison?

 

[Eric15]

Plus we play football. Plus our hoops and lax are elite, SJU has nothing elite.

Not sure why you're referencing SU hoops and SU lax - I'm just comparing SU football and SJU basketball, specifically.

 

[Bayside44]

Not sure why you're referencing SU hoops and SU lax - I'm just comparing SU football and SJU basketball, specifically.

There's a general program fandom with us...not sure how close you are to SJU, but it doesn't exist anymore. They cannot even fill Alumni Hall. When I was a kid that was 6,008 every game.