Benny williams

[Dick_in_MI]

I'm not sure he is even the 8th man..last 3 games were all close...OT win and 2 losses...Woody registered 2 DNPs and 8 minutes. They played 10 guys in the 2 Ls and Woody was a DNP. They played 12 in the game where he got 8 minutes.

I was being charitable with the 8th man thing.

 

[orangemass]

Benny's performing at a Greg Davis level right now.

Blast from past...

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

I don't even know what you mean by that, but I actually am not even sure it matters if that's your takeaway.
Maybe focus on the rarity now of 20 win seasons. Or the recent frequency of 14-15 loss seasons. Or our best seed in the 7 previous seasons being an 8.

Saw the same thing ... in the stretch from 2000 to (edit) 2012-13, low-20 win seasons were rebuilds. From 2012 on, low 20's were the "good" years. Seeds follow the same trajectory.

 

[the villager]

When Jessie power dunked ,Bennie was cheering the most (good sign).Comparing this year with last Bennie has more PT than Frank or Jessie. Bennie is better defensively than offensively thus some PT.As I have said before Bennie seems like a very bright young man and will GET IT.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

As I have said before Bennie seems like a very bright young man and will GET IT.

And it's going to taste good when he does.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't even know what you mean by that, but I actually am not even sure it matters if that's your takeaway.

Maybe focus on the rarity now of 20 win seasons. Or the recent frequency of 14-15 loss seasons. Or our best seed in the 7 previous seasons being an 8.

I mean…..there’s really not even any comparison in our standing as a program from 2015-now vs. like 1992-2006.

Back then we were usually in the top 25, we almost always made the tournament and were pretty much never anywhere near the bubble.

Now we are never in the top 25, and always on the bubble.

92-06 - we were a good, solid program that was capable of a great year(96, 03, 00, 94) , and won the BET 3 times. Now we’re a mediocre program that is….capable of being mediocre all year and winning 2 tourney games sometimes.

 

[supp]

The thing with Woody is not that he was sitting behind two starters at forward; he was also sitting behind Robert Braswell (and Marek for those occasions when he moved to the 4). People forget that he was not the #2 option at his position and if you have not earned status as one of the top two options at your position, why should you automatically get PT? "Just because" is not a good enough reason. If you want to make the case that he should have played ahead of Bras, that's fine. But that is not what people are claiming.

The guy was a freshman, and a freshman has to work his way up. Why should the coaches have to act like it is youth league basketball where everyone gets equal minutes?

Were the guys who played behind Woody in high school guaranteed court time? How about guys who were third in the rotation at his position in high school? I highly doubt it, and yet fans think that PT for freshman should be guaranteed at SU's level so as not to hurt a player's delicate feelings.

JB didn't give Woody court time ahead of the several guys who were ahead of him. BFD; he is now the 8th man at Okie State. Again, this is not youth hoops; it is college competition at the highest level and the coaches shouldn't have to be bullied into playing time for freshman who haven't earned it.

It's not Woody per se that I'm concerned with. It's recruits we bring in and give up on in 3 months and then we complain about having no bench. Braswell would likely be more useful to us this year than Woody but he's not here either. A big part of a college coach's job is program-building. We haven't had much of that over the past 5-6 years. It's not surprising that we've been mediocre. If we were bringing 5-star talent every off season, that would be one thing but that's not the case. And I'm sure negative recruiting about how Boeheim doesn't develop the 5-stars he gets won't help on that front.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

It's not Woody per se that I'm concerned with. It's recruits we bring in and give up on in 3 months and then we complain about having no bench. Braswell would likely be more useful to us this year than Woody but he's not here either. A big part of a college coach's job is program-building. We haven't had much of that over the past 5-6 years. It's not surprising that we've been mediocre. If we were bringing 5-star talent every off season, that would be one thing but that's not the case. And I'm sure negative recruiting about how Boeheim doesn't develop the 5-stars he gets won't help on that front.

Who says that we have given up on Benny? When did SU ever give up on a player’s entire career after 3 months in the program?

 

[phil77]

I mean…..there’s really not even any comparison in our standing as a program from 2015-now vs. like 1992-2006.

Back then we were usually in the top 25, we almost always made the tournament and were pretty much never anywhere near the bubble.

Now we are never in the top 25, and always on the bubble.

92-06 - we were a good, solid program that was capable of a great year. Now we’re a mediocre program that is….capable of being mediocre all year and winning 2 tourney games sometimes.

Would be interesting to figure out why and what can be done to fix it to get SU back where it belongs in the landscape of college basketball. I am sure it is a bunch of little things and not one specific thing. Like I said when I was looking at some old box scores it was odd to me (at least the ones I looked at) that JB has always had a short rotation of 8-9 guys but usually the 3-9 guys split up the minutes. Now 1-5 get all the minutes like almost every minute and 6-9 get scraps. Why is that? What changed in JBs mindset? Is he now too afraid to lose 1 game? Is the no-losing season thing that big of a deal to him? Does he have some agreement that he has to make the tournament or he is out (doubtful but he coaches like it)? Was Mike Hopkins the only assistant that could develop players and now that he is gone incoming players just aren't being coached up? Is JB too old to get in practice and help develop did he ever do that?

So so so so many questions that I think there could be bits of truth all over.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I don’t mind the zone, but recruits who want to play in the NBA look at playing zone defense as a negative. It may or may not, but I’m sure coaches recruiting against us say it does.

 

[Cuse181]

I’d love to go back to worrying about being a 5-8 seed, let alone a 1-4 seed like we were between 84-91 and 09-14.

I would too, but with the parity in college basketball now, I don’t think that’s feasible year after year. Once JB leaves there are no guarantees winning seasons will be the norm, let alone protected seeds.

 

[SWC75]

Saw the same thing ... low 20's from 2000 to 2010 were rebuild years. From 2010 on, low 20's are "good" years. Seeds follow the same pattern.

We had three #1 ranked teams from 2010 on. The period you are referring to began in the 2014-15 season.

 

[supp]

Who says that we have given up on Benny? When did SU ever give up on a player’s entire career after 3 months in the program?

We'll see where this all goes but Boeheim trashing him in press conferences isn't exactly inspiring hope. This is what happened last year too (and the year before that and the year before that). Again, I'll repeat. A big part of a college coach's job is program-building. If this is something the current coach no longer wishes to think about, then he ought to go to the pros. In the NBA you don't have to worry about your roster so much as a coach. That's the GM's job.

I'm convinced that part of the problem recently has been the looming retirement of Boeheim, and not in the way that people might imagine. If you are taking your job as a year-to-year proposition, it becomes harder to plan for or even take into account the program's future.

 

[CousCuse]

If Benny can take the ball to the paint and score some, he will get tons of James and Coles PT. And play decent on D, of course.

 

[Cuse_NYC]

He says this now. Dior was 1000% committed…

 

[721Comstock]

The thing is: couldn't Woody wait and see what the other forwards were doing before he left? Where would he be on this team now if he'd stayed?

I get the feeling that Woody and his roomie Kadary had both convinced the other to bail at the end of the season, no matter what.

Don't think there was going to be anything JB could do at that point, since their minds were already made up.

Bras leaving was the larger surprise, since he'd been getting - and EARNING - major minutes at the end of the season, and seemed poised to either be a starter, or the 6th man this year.
He was also very well liked by everybody in the program.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

We had three #1 ranked teams from 2010 on. The period you are referring to began in the 2014-15 season.

Fair point ... downward trend really picked up steam after 12-13 and never returned to the 'old' mean. I"ll edit, but either way it's the same basic pattern. Maybe we need a negative binomial regression or a convergence analysis to isolate the factor.

 

[CousCuse]

The next 3 games should be a great opportunity for Benny to get things going and get significant PT.

 

[FireballPhil]

Benny Williams on Future With Syracuse: 'I Will Be Here'

Benny says yes he is struggling but is going to stick around and get it going.

 

[realorange]

I know Dion was brought up earlier in this thread but this statement from Benny reminds me of Dion and how he refused to transfer after his frosh year and used it as motivation to come back better and stronger than ever.

I'm not sure I remember it as Dion refusing to transfer. I think his mother was very involved and told him he was going to stay at Syracuse.

 

[realorange]

That's part of the problem. One of the reasons why we are mediocre and scratching and clawing to get wins by playing starters max minutes is because we haven't been very successful developing and retaining a bench. It's a vicious cycle. For sure, the kids who leave should have more foresight but so should the coaches. Is the potential (and I stress potential) for short term benefit more important than long-term stability?

It is tiresome to hear the story of more game time leading to better players. IF and that was a big IF, they work and play hard at practice, they will get the opportunity to gain more minutes in game time.

The practice to prove you are ready comes before minutes in gametime.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Who says that we have given up on Benny? When did SU ever give up on a player’s entire career after 3 months in the program?

Some would argue last year. On two players

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I would too, but with the parity in college basketball now, I don’t think that’s feasible year after year. Once JB leaves there are no guarantees winning seasons will be the norm, let alone protected seeds.

I do not understand this line of thinking.

Of course there's no guarantee of protected seeds. But that's the goal! The goal isn't to avoid losing seasons. It's to win the most games we can and be best positioned for postseason success.

There's similarly no guarantee that whenever it is we have a new coach that we'll perform to the mediocre standard of the last 8 seasons. In fact, the longer we stay outside of the Top 25 and in 12 or more losses per season territory, the more likely it is that I think the new coach, with all the advantages our program offers, if they're a competent coach and grinds on the recruiting trail, has very good odds of getting our program to perform better than we have been recently.

 

[Cuse181]

I do not understand this line of thinking.

Of course there's no guarantee of protected seeds. But that's the goal! The goal isn't to avoid losing seasons. It's to win the most games we can and be best positioned for postseason success.

There's similarly no guarantee that whenever it is we have a new coach that we'll perform to the mediocre standard of the last 8 seasons. In fact, the longer we stay outside of the Top 25 and in 12 or more losses per season territory, the more likely it is that I think the new coach, with all the advantages our program offers, if they're a competent coach and grinds on the recruiting trail, has very good odds of getting our program to perform better than we have been recently.

If you say so

 

[supp]

If you say so

Hell of a retort. Bravo.