Beyond the Orange Glasses | Page 4 | Syracusefan.com

Beyond the Orange Glasses

He was and has been a great defensive coordinator. Some coaches aren’t great HC’s but the way he is treated on here seems a bit excessive.
 
The more I let the season to date settle in, the more I realize just how odd last year was. It really has been a double edged sword to have such a good season so quickly as part of Dino's rebuild. Clearly Dino knew it was an opportunity to have a flash in the pan season to spark the program and build hype. He also clearly knew since camp that there were a lot of things needing work and questions to be answered.

We all would have taken 7-5 last year and been thrilled with the continued growth and getting back to a bowl. Instead we were given a special treat and a taste of former and future glory. That might as well be considered laced with poison 3 games into this year.

So now we have to take a step back and look at the overall more than one year. It's year 4 and the residual challenges are still there. Growing pains of youth, recruiting challenges in that we still have work to do building more depth and talent and then the fact that unless you are a perennial top 5 program, college football can be heartbreaking as much as it can be amazing because of the unpredictability. We have experienced really just one heartbreak and that was Maryland. Clemson hurt but - the inner logic in most of us knew what we faced. Still yet, it was nearly a 17-13 or 17-9 game early in the third.

Now let's get back to 1 game at a time and seeing this version of our team grow and win a few more games to build that confidence back. A bowl season being the goal first then maybe even more by way of the quality of the bowl.
 
I am an ardent supporter of Coach Dino Babers, his Staff, the Players and the Program as a whole. Nobody on this forum unlike some other forums in CNY have anything but the absolute best in mind when it comes to Syracuse University Football. That being said, I still have questions. I do realize that it probably all goes back to recruiting but here goes. We hear so much about these recruits while they are being recruited, after they sign, and then in the limited information we are given regarding how they do in practice. In the games, I watch the same guy(s) whiff on tackles because of absolutely horrible tackling angles. Over and over again it is done and yet they still get playing time. I watch wide receivers that can't get open or that quit on routes or that have alligator arms and drop passes. The past two years, Syracuse has had Servais bouncing around from tackle to center because we do not have a true center. (I know all about Sampson and that is another story in itself). This staff needs to recruit true centers when they are looking for recruits or at the very least, someone who has played center in a real game at the high school level. Why do they continuously have to look for graduate transfer or JC offensive lineman. You have recruited offensive lineman every year you have been here. Where is Mike Clark? I realize Liam O'Sullivan got medically DQ'd. Where is Q. White, P. Davis, Froumy??? If they are not as good as what is being played right now or even remotely close, then all I can say is wow, how did they get an offer to begin with? Where is Cam Jonas? Where is C. Jackson, A. Queeley, Sharod Johnson, Cooper Lutz, Russell Thompson- Bishop? One of the wide outs has played in every game and has 7 catches for 9 yards. I pretty sure most of us on this forum could trip forward a few times and have a better average. If he is hurt, he should not be out there. If he is not producing, same. My complaint is that I see the same guys doing the same things wrong over and over and yes, that does include #13 and the sideline pass to the opposition. There now I got it out and I'm not frustrated anymore. I fully realize I will never get any of these questions answered and that I am not privy to what goes on in practice or behind the scenes. Never the less, it never hurts to ask. Go Orange!!!!!!
 
P Vasiloff said:
I am an ardent supporter of Coach Dino Babers, his Staff, the Players and the Program as a whole. Nobody on this forum unlike some other forums in CNY have anything but the absolute best in mind when it comes to Syracuse University Football. That being said, I still have questions. I do realize that it probably all goes back to recruiting but here goes. We hear so much about these recruits while they are being recruited, after they sign, and then in the limited information we are given regarding how they do in practice. In the games, I watch the same guy(s) whiff on tackles because of absolutely horrible tackling angles. Over and over again it is done and yet they still get playing time. I watch wide receivers that can't get open or that quit on routes or that have alligator arms and drop passes. The past two years, Syracuse has had Servais bouncing around from tackle to center because we do not have a true center. (I know all about Sampson and that is another story in itself). This staff needs to recruit true centers when they are looking for recruits or at the very least, someone who has played center in a real game at the high school level. Why do they continuously have to look for graduate transfer or JC offensive lineman. You have recruited offensive lineman every year you have been here. Where is Mike Clark? I realize Liam O'Sullivan got medically DQ'd. Where is Q. White, P. Davis, Froumy??? If they are not as good as what is being played right now or even remotely close, then all I can say is wow, how did they get an offer to begin with? Where is Cam Jonas? Where is C. Jackson, A. Queeley, Sharod Johnson, Cooper Lutz, Russell Thompson- Bishop? One of the wide outs has played in every game and has 7 catches for 9 yards. I pretty sure most of us on this forum could trip forward a few times and have a better average. If he is hurt, he should not be out there. If he is not producing, same. My complaint is that I see the same guys doing the same things wrong over and over and yes, that does include #13 and the sideline pass to the opposition. There now I got it out and I'm not frustrated anymore. I fully realize I will never get any of these questions answered and that I am not privy to what goes on in practice or behind the scenes. Never the less, it never hurts to ask. Go Orange!
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Fair complaints. Most of the OL you named came in as multi-year projects, namely Qadir.

I also share the concern about wideout. I feel Sharod and Queeley are well suited to assist in areas where our offense currently struggles, to put it nicely.

Jordan, like Custis, I have no real clue about.
 
P Vasiloff said:
I am an ardent supporter of Coach Dino Babers, his Staff, the Players and the Program as a whole. Nobody on this forum unlike some other forums in CNY have anything but the absolute best in mind when it comes to Syracuse University Football. That being said, I still have questions. I do realize that it probably all goes back to recruiting but here goes. We hear so much about these recruits while they are being recruited, after they sign, and then in the limited information we are given regarding how they do in practice. In the games, I watch the same guy(s) whiff on tackles because of absolutely horrible tackling angles. Over and over again it is done and yet they still get playing time. I watch wide receivers that can't get open or that quit on routes or that have alligator arms and drop passes. The past two years, Syracuse has had Servais bouncing around from tackle to center because we do not have a true center. (I know all about Sampson and that is another story in itself). This staff needs to recruit true centers when they are looking for recruits or at the very least, someone who has played center in a real game at the high school level. Why do they continuously have to look for graduate transfer or JC offensive lineman. You have recruited offensive lineman every year you have been here. Where is Mike Clark? I realize Liam O'Sullivan got medically DQ'd. Where is Q. White, P. Davis, Froumy??? If they are not as good as what is being played right now or even remotely close, then all I can say is wow, how did they get an offer to begin with? Where is Cam Jonas? Where is C. Jackson, A. Queeley, Sharod Johnson, Cooper Lutz, Russell Thompson- Bishop? One of the wide outs has played in every game and has 7 catches for 9 yards. I pretty sure most of us on this forum could trip forward a few times and have a better average. If he is hurt, he should not be out there. If he is not producing, same. My complaint is that I see the same guys doing the same things wrong over and over and yes, that does include #13 and the sideline pass to the opposition. There now I got it out and I'm not frustrated anymore. I fully realize I will never get any of these questions answered and that I am not privy to what goes on in practice or behind the scenes. Never the less, it never hurts to ask. Go Orange!
Expand...

There’s a lot here I disagree with. First, all programs whiff on recruits. Some kids take more time. Some become all-Americans as true freshman. Recruiting hype doesn’t help - as we get all amped and think potential is the same as current reality. Just doesn’t work that way, unless you’re Clemson or Alabama (and even then...).

It comes down to trust. I personally trust the staff to put the best kids in the best position possible. This is an area *we as fans suck at*...
 
TheCusian said:
There’s a lot here I disagree with. First, all programs whiff on recruits. Some kids take more time. Some become all-Americans as true freshman. Recruiting hype doesn’t help - as we get all amped and think potential is the same as current reality. Just doesn’t work that way, unless you’re Clemson or Alabama (and even then...).

It comes down to trust. I personally trust the staff to put the best kids in the best position possible. This is an area *we as fans suck at*...
Expand...
I trust the staff also. Just wondering out loud where some of those young men are in the program. Go Orange!!!!!!!
 
Orangezoo said:
The more I let the season to date settle in, the more I realize just how odd last year was. It really has been a double edged sword to have such a good season so quickly as part of Dino's rebuild. Clearly Dino knew it was an opportunity to have a flash in the pan season to spark the program and build hype. He also clearly knew since camp that there were a lot of things needing work and questions to be answered.

We all would have taken 7-5 last year and been thrilled with the continued growth and getting back to a bowl. Instead we were given a special treat and a taste of former and future glory. That might as well be considered laced with poison 3 games into this year.

So now we have to take a step back and look at the overall more than one year. It's year 4 and the residual challenges are still there. Growing pains of youth, recruiting challenges in that we still have work to do building more depth and talent and then the fact that unless you are a perennial top 5 program, college football can be heartbreaking as much as it can be amazing because of the unpredictability. We have experienced really just one heartbreak and that was Maryland. Clemson hurt but - the inner logic in most of us knew what we faced. Still yet, it was nearly a 17-13 or 17-9 game early in the third.

Now let's get back to 1 game at a time and seeing this version of our team grow and win a few more games to build that confidence back. A bowl season being the goal first then maybe even more by way of the quality of the bowl.
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This x 1,000
 
[
I believe a LOT of people liked him. He cared deeply about his players and the community. There wasn't a ton of personal animus directed towards Shafer around here. It seemed most people rooted hard for him, right up until the end. He just wasn't a good enough HC. That's no crime.
[/QUOTE]


OF course he did - they gave him a better job than he ever could've gotten anywhere else.
 
Bayside44 said:
[
I believe a LOT of people liked him. He cared deeply about his players and the community. There wasn't a ton of personal animus directed towards Shafer around here. It seemed most people rooted hard for him, right up until the end. He just wasn't a good enough HC. That's no crime.
Expand...


OF course he did - they gave him a better job than he ever could've gotten anywhere else.
[/QUOTE]
Is that any fault of his own? He was a good DC and there wasn’t any evidence he would do as poor as he did
 
i think people need to calm down. This weekend to me is the reboot of the season. As i alluded to earlier, it feels like Tulane 1997 when we were 1-3 and staring at 1-4. Sometimes the offense needs time to get going. The disadvantage of playing games on the road early is you lose Big Mo(mentum) when things aren't going your way. Clemson game was tough esp since they were prepared for us and are the most talented team in the land.

A good coach will coach up the talent and get more out of them as the season drives on. Dino is a good coach. We will be better in November and dangerous come bowl season.

Calm down folks, it's not even leaf raking season yet.
 
Scooch said:
I believe a LOT of people liked him. He cared deeply about his players and the community. There wasn't a ton of personal animus directed towards Shafer around here. It seemed most people rooted hard for him, right up until the end. He just wasn't a good enough HC. That's no crime.
Expand...

I believe all this. I think my personal thing with him other then the cigar was that there were some of us who saw issues pretty early on and got a lot of crap, from at least one particular poster ad nauseum to every single thing slightly negative about Shafer. All of it was warranted and thus proved warranted by the end. So that has always annoyed me that for a couple years, nothing interpreted as bad could be said about Shafer. The guy was the messiah for at least one poster until close to the bitter end. So I think I probably unfairly over criticize him now as a result.

Here's the reality. Between Marrone, Shafer, and HCDB. They each inherited a different type of mess. Each coach has contributed in some way to the success we had last year and the success we will have this year (a bowl game for me is success considering our history and mine watching this program).
 
P Vasiloff said:
I am an ardent supporter of Coach Dino Babers, his Staff, the Players and the Program as a whole. Nobody on this forum unlike some other forums in CNY have anything but the absolute best in mind when it comes to Syracuse University Football. That being said, I still have questions. I do realize that it probably all goes back to recruiting but here goes. We hear so much about these recruits while they are being recruited, after they sign, and then in the limited information we are given regarding how they do in practice. In the games, I watch the same guy(s) whiff on tackles because of absolutely horrible tackling angles. Over and over again it is done and yet they still get playing time. I watch wide receivers that can't get open or that quit on routes or that have alligator arms and drop passes. The past two years, Syracuse has had Servais bouncing around from tackle to center because we do not have a true center. (I know all about Sampson and that is another story in itself). This staff needs to recruit true centers when they are looking for recruits or at the very least, someone who has played center in a real game at the high school level. Why do they continuously have to look for graduate transfer or JC offensive lineman. You have recruited offensive lineman every year you have been here. Where is Mike Clark? I realize Liam O'Sullivan got medically DQ'd. Where is Q. White, P. Davis, Froumy??? If they are not as good as what is being played right now or even remotely close, then all I can say is wow, how did they get an offer to begin with? Where is Cam Jonas? Where is C. Jackson, A. Queeley, Sharod Johnson, Cooper Lutz, Russell Thompson- Bishop? One of the wide outs has played in every game and has 7 catches for 9 yards. I pretty sure most of us on this forum could trip forward a few times and have a better average. If he is hurt, he should not be out there. If he is not producing, same. My complaint is that I see the same guys doing the same things wrong over and over and yes, that does include #13 and the sideline pass to the opposition. There now I got it out and I'm not frustrated anymore. I fully realize I will never get any of these questions answered and that I am not privy to what goes on in practice or behind the scenes. Never the less, it never hurts to ask. Go Orange!
Expand...
You have valid points, can’t say you don’t. And you aren’t being obnoxious, kudos to you!

Now I must say our OL development of young guys is a question. I have not seen one of our bigger OL recruits do anything overly positive really.

I think we can all agree the one area of underwhelming recruiting is OL. And boy, I’m beginning to really see how the OL is and should always be the first priority of every recruiting class. If we had 2 of our top 5 recruits as OL every year that would be ideal.
 
Orangezoo said:
The more I let the season to date settle in, the more I realize just how odd last year was. It really has been a double edged sword to have such a good season so quickly as part of Dino's rebuild. Clearly Dino knew it was an opportunity to have a flash in the pan season to spark the program and build hype. He also clearly knew since camp that there were a lot of things needing work and questions to be answered.

We all would have taken 7-5 last year and been thrilled with the continued growth and getting back to a bowl. Instead we were given a special treat and a taste of former and future glory. That might as well be considered laced with poison 3 games into this year.

So now we have to take a step back and look at the overall more than one year. It's year 4 and the residual challenges are still there. Growing pains of youth, recruiting challenges in that we still have work to do building more depth and talent and then the fact that unless you are a perennial top 5 program, college football can be heartbreaking as much as it can be amazing because of the unpredictability. We have experienced really just one heartbreak and that was Maryland. Clemson hurt but - the inner logic in most of us knew what we faced. Still yet, it was nearly a 17-13 or 17-9 game early in the third.

Now let's get back to 1 game at a time and seeing this version of our team grow and win a few more games to build that confidence back. A bowl season being the goal first then maybe even more by way of the quality of the bowl.
Expand...

Solid post, and I clearly get your premise. Let me ask you this, If we did go 7-5 last year and "all being thrilled" as you allude, how would you feel about this start? Not so much that we are 1-2, but in the way we've looked and played in getting there. There were serious struggles against an inferior Liberty team. If Liberty doesn't miss that early 41 yard FG, and then fumble on 1st and goal from the 4, we easily could've started that game down 10-0, and who knows how the remainder of that game plays out.

The Maryland game was a complete debacle & annihilation. Many thought the game would be difficult, but there wasn't a soul who imagined what actually transpired. In all honesty, we made MD look like an NFL team and we looked like a high school one. It wasn't as if we had a plethora of turnovers, etc., but played as if we had no business being on the same field as the Terps.

And, you mention what could've been early 3Q in the Clemson game, well, if we play that "if" game, just as I mentioned what easily could've been the case in that Liberty game...being down early 10 zip. Fact is, we were dominated by Clemson as the total yards for the game suggests. I think I remember seeing a stat during the later stages of the 3Q where Clemson had well over 200 yards for the quarter and we were in negative territory. I clearly realize Clemson (at the moment) is the #1 team in the nation, but let's not fool ourselves about how "close" that game was.

I in no way have given up on this season, as there's a long way to go. Many have commented about our apparent recruiting misses thus far, along with weaknesses on the OL, receivers not getting open/catching the ball, lack of a running game, etc. so there's obvious reason for concern. I'm not one to make predictions on how the season will play out, time will clearly tell. I'll mention one thing about the O and what Dino promised and uttered repeatedly in year one and two, and that was by the mid-way point of year 3 this offense of his would be clicking on all cylinders, petal to the metal. We are now 3 games into season 4, and this offense needs a serious tune up. I don't want to hear about the new young QB, Devito's 3 years into the program. And when Dino was going around saying this repeatedly, he was well aware of the personnel, who was graduating, recruits coming in, etc. He made it seem that his system would be rolling, and the "next" personnel of his recruitment would just "plug and play."
 
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[/QUOTE]
...there wasn’t any evidence he would do as poor as he did
[/QUOTE]

We don't know that.

Think of any interview you've ever conducted.

Then think of how Scott Shafer could've come across in his SU head football coach interview. Defense-first, getting the band back together, doing lord knows what with Marrone and Hackett's offense?

We don't know. But if Gross did his due diligence (ha), I'm guessing there were red flags.
 
...there wasn’t any evidence he would do as poor as he did
[/QUOTE]

We don't know that.

Think of any interview you've ever conducted.

Then think of how Scott Shafer could've come across in his SU head football coach interview. Defense-first, getting the band back together, doing lord knows what with Marrone and Hackett's offense?

We don't know. But if Gross did his due diligence (ha), I'm guessing there were red flags.
[/QUOTE]


Here's the issue: the hire was entirely about continuity. We'd just demolished West Virginia in a bowl, the ship appeared to be righted, BUT we were graduating numerous key players and didn't necessarily have equivalent talent to replace some of them in the pipeline.

Gross didn't do due diligence, he made a poor hire on the basis of keeping things consistent. Then, Marrone raided the staff - bringing numerous of them to the NFL with him - and then continuity went out the window.

Off the field, Shafer was a credit to the program, a class act, and a terrific guy. He just didn't have the chops to be a head coach, he made a really poor initial hire at OC, and by the time he found one worth a damn [Lester] it was too late.

But at least it led to Babers.
 
RF2044 said:
...there wasn’t any evidence he would do as poor as he did
Expand...

We don't know that.

Think of any interview you've ever conducted.

Then think of how Scott Shafer could've come across in his SU head football coach interview. Defense-first, getting the band back together, doing lord knows what with Marrone and Hackett's offense?

We don't know. But if Gross did his due diligence (ha), I'm guessing there were red flags.
[/QUOTE]


Here's the issue: the hire was entirely about continuity. We'd just demolished West Virginia in a bowl, the ship appeared to be righted, BUT we were graduating numerous key players and didn't necessarily have equivalent talent to replace some of them in the pipeline.

Gross didn't do due diligence, he made a poor hire on the basis of keeping things consistent. Then, Marrone raided the staff - bringing numerous of them to the NFL with him - and then continuity went out the window.

Off the field, Shafer was a credit to the program, a class act, and a terrific guy. He just didn't have the chops to be a head coach, he made a really poor initial hire at OC, and by the time he found one worth a damn [Lester] it was too late.

But at least it led to Babers.
[/QUOTE]

The Shafer hire was predicated i thought on Hackett sticking around. I always thought that was the big surprise when he left with Marrone. Had Nate stuck around, who knows how it all unfolds. Shafer may have strung together 6 7 win seasons at this point and we'd have our own Addazio. A situation which would be mediocre but mediocre is more acceptable post GERG. 5-6 bowl games would have made Shafer safe to some extent.
 
We're at the quarter pole of the season so not to much should be put into the results to date as a predictor of the season. We need to win at home the next two weeks and then take a breath. The games after the bye will determine the season. All are coin flips at this point and my expectation is to get to 7 wins in the regular season. That would be a successful season in my opinion. Sure I want more but never bought into last season as being sustainable this year for numerous reasons. Last year was a perfect storm for us. Its foolish to think that would be the norm moving forward.

I will say I am really surprised at the lack of fluidity and performance with the offense to date. I believed there would be growing pains with a new QB at the helm but am somewhat shocked by what I've seen to date. I won't individualize blame as I see it as a failure of the unit as a whole.

Gotta put in work this weekend on both sides of the ball, get our mojo back, and move forward to the second half of the season.

If there is any clarity at this point it's that I have no idea how this season will play out. Yet I'll keep going and cheering them on cause it's what I do.
 
TheCusian said:
If you lose games, you’ll be open to criticism and that’s the nature of the business. Dino hasn’t done everything right and this job presents some unique challenges inherently. I think the tendency after a ten win season is to see ourselves as a perineal top 25 team and a return to the glory of the Mac days.

But it’s more 3 steps forward, 2 back at Syracuse. And as Wildhack and Dino chip away at some of the disadvantages (private charter for recruiting, more recruiting staff, dome renovations, etc) the gains should be more frequent. It’s just going to be slower than we like.

Look at Wake last year. Similarly, new starters on OL, young QB - and pretty big internal expectations that they failed to meet. But Clawson is still a pretty good coach (hurt to say that).

Dino can coach. We’ve gotten a surprise win or a 10 win season each of his first three. Roads busier than we wanted, but I’m patient.
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You had me at perineal.
 
orangecuse said:
Solid post, and I clearly get your premise. Let me ask you this, If we did go 7-5 last year and "all being thrilled" as you allude, how would you feel about this start? Not so much that we are 1-2, but in the way we've looked and played in getting there. There were serious struggles against an inferior Liberty team. If Liberty doesn't miss that early 41 yard FG, and then fumble on 1st and goal from the 4, we easily could've started that game down 10-0, and who knows how the remainder of that game plays out.

The Maryland game was a complete debacle & annihilation. Many thought the game would be difficult, but there wasn't a soul who imagined what actually transpired. In all honesty, we made MD look like an NFL team and we looked like a high school one. It wasn't as if we had a plethora of turnovers, etc., but played as if we had no business being on the same field as the Terps.

And, you mention what could've been early 3Q in the Clemson game, well, if we play that "if" game, just as I mentioned what easily could've been the case in that Liberty game...being down early 10 zip. Fact is, we were dominated by Clemson as the total yards for the game suggests. I think I remember seeing a stat during the later stages of the 3Q where Clemson had well over 200 yards for the quarter and we were in negative territory. I clearly realize Clemson (at the moment) is the #1 team in the nation, but let's not fool ourselves about how "close" that game was.

I in no way have given up on this season, as there's a long way to go. Many have commented about our apparent recruiting misses thus far, along with weaknesses on the OL, receivers not getting open/catching the ball, lack of a running game, etc. so there's obvious reason for concern. I'm not one to make predictions on how the season will play out, time will clearly tell. I'll mention one thing about the O and what Dino promised and uttered repeatedly in year one and two, and that was by the mid-way point of year 3 this offense of his would be clicking on all cylinders, petal to the metal. We are now 3 games into season 4, and this offense needs a serious tune up. I don't want to hear about the new young QB, Devito's 3 years into the program. And when Dino was going around saying this repeatedly, he was well aware of the personnel, who was graduating, recruits coming in, etc. He made it seem that his system would be rolling, and the "next" personnel of his recruitment would just "plug and play."
Expand...

At 7-5, we wouldn't have walked into this year or finished last year ranked. Concerns would have been met with clearer lenses and expectations, with the losses we endured would have been more in line with the possibility of the season starting how it has. In many ways the natural expectation would have been a repeat of last year with the leap coming the following year with Tommy having his second year behind the wheel and the offensive line being in a similar situation. Recruiting impacts probably become most visible next year. So much of the angst would be there but instead of disappointment it is back to when does Dino finally get this thing truly turned around. So many of us took last year and plugged it in as that moment. Which is why 1-2 stings so much along with with all the other concerns.
 
No way I can reply to 3 pages of angry replies so I'm going to say a few more things to address what I see as common elements in the replies.

Those of you claiming I am some fly by night poster that doesn't go to games and who will disappear or suddenly start Dino to USC threads are most likely newbies to this board. I've been around here for a very long time, a season ticket holder for almost 20 years - Sec 113 Row A is my current home, I'm not going anywhere. I am known for emotional H0T Takes and when proven wrong I actually publicly admit my mistake and work to fix it moving forward. For instance, I have banned myself from ever making message board medical diagnoses ever again. I hold myself accountable for what I put on here. So enough of the elementary put downs. You are not about to run me out of the building.

I apologize for making it seem like I was wanted to directly compare Dino to HCSS. I freely admit Dino has done more for the perception and overall image of the program than anyone in a very long time. Yes I think Dino is a better coach than Gerg x100,000, that doesn't mean our current stats aren't at Gerg levels. The difference is that Gerg was a gameday clown with zero ability to put together a decent staff and read the little engine that could while I'm pretty sure Dino at least has a vision and plan for how to fix it. That doesn't mean Dino's plan is the right one or being executed by his assistants properly because we are a bad football team right now. Shafer? Dino is lights out better than Shafer too. The point I was trying to make before everyone flipped out that I brought those other two names up is that our stats ARE in fact currently that bad and that Shafer was villified for his offensive performances. 50 pts in 3 games fellas. If that wasn't good enough for those whose name I shall not speak then it's not good enough now and furthermore given what Dino is supposedly capable of, it's not even close.

As for Dino, I didn't trash him. I said we should expect more in year 4. Show me where I said Dino is a horrible coach and needs to be fired or any of that. I didn't. I said we should expect more in year 4 from an offensive minded coach. This looks like year 1 out there. We are losing games by the 2nd quarter and showing no consistency on offense. Do I think it will get better? Yes but I don't think this team cracks the top 60 in either total offense or total defense by the end of the season. I think 4-8, 5-7 is a very real possibility and given the upward trajectory we've seen since Dino's arrival it is a major step back.
 
One more thing.

Anyone who thinks I actually want us to lose or struggle can stop by my skytop tailgate so I can waterboard you with some Cuse Juice m'kay?
 
...there wasn’t any evidence he would do as poor as he did
[/QUOTE]

We don't know that.

Think of any interview you've ever conducted.

Then think of how Scott Shafer could've come across in his SU head football coach interview. Defense-first, getting the band back together, doing lord knows what with Marrone and Hackett's offense?

We don't know. But if Gross did his due diligence (ha), I'm guessing there were red flags.
[/QUOTE]

considering that Gross interviewed Robinson, who immediately comes across as one of the biggest dimwits you will ever meet and said "THIS is the guy", well, who knows what he was thinking with Shafer. I was actually pretty impressed with Shafer at his opening press conference, he was fiery, didn't care if what he said was a bit off the wall. It took actual game results/game decisions and "ISIS" "3-0, we're 3-0" "Fu** you Dabo, you motherfu**er" etc. to make it clear he was a trainwreck
 
elimunelson said:
i think people need to calm down. This weekend to me is the reboot of the season. As i alluded to earlier, it feels like Tulane 1997 when we were 1-3 and staring at 1-4. Sometimes the offense needs time to get going. The disadvantage of playing games on the road early is you lose Big Mo(mentum) when things aren't going your way. Clemson game was tough esp since they were prepared for us and are the most talented team in the land.

A good coach will coach up the talent and get more out of them as the season drives on. Dino is a good coach. We will be better in November and dangerous come bowl season.

Calm down folks, it's not even leaf raking season yet.
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Pyle said:
No way I can reply to 3 pages of angry replies so I'm going to say a few more things to address what I see as common elements in the replies.

Those of you claiming I am some fly by night poster that doesn't go to games and who will disappear or suddenly start Dino to USC threads are most likely newbies to this board. I've been around here for a very long time, a season ticket holder for almost 20 years - Sec 113 Row A is my current home, I'm not going anywhere. I am known for emotional H0T Takes and when proven wrong I actually publicly admit my mistake and work to fix it moving forward. For instance, I have banned myself from ever making message board medical diagnoses ever again. I hold myself accountable for what I put on here. So enough of the elementary put downs. You are not about to run me out of the building.

I apologize for making it seem like I was wanted to directly compare Dino to HCSS. I freely admit Dino has done more for the perception and overall image of the program than anyone in a very long time. Yes I think Dino is a better coach than Gerg x100,000, that doesn't mean our current stats aren't at Gerg levels. The difference is that Gerg was a gameday clown with zero ability to put together a decent staff and read the little engine that could while I'm pretty sure Dino at least has a vision and plan for how to fix it. That doesn't mean Dino's plan is the right one or being executed by his assistants properly because we are a bad football team right now. Shafer? Dino is lights out better than Shafer too. The point I was trying to make before everyone flipped out that I brought those other two names up is that our stats ARE in fact currently that bad and that Shafer was villified for his offensive performances. 50 pts in 3 games fellas. If that wasn't good enough for those whose name I shall not speak then it's not good enough now and furthermore given what Dino is supposedly capable of, it's not even close.

As for Dino, I didn't trash him. I said we should expect more in year 4. Show me where I said Dino is a horrible coach and needs to be fired or any of that. I didn't. I said we should expect more in year 4 from an offensive minded coach. This looks like year 1 out there. We are losing games by the 2nd quarter and showing no consistency on offense. Do I think it will get better? Yes but I don't think this team cracks the top 60 in either total offense or total defense by the end of the season. I think 4-8, 5-7 is a very real possibility and given the upward trajectory we've seen since Dino's arrival it is a major step back.
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i get your points and it's logical to bring up the failings so far but i'll be shocked if this team is under .500. If we are then at that point we can agree that it's a step back. You can step back with the right coach too. Both things can be right. To suggest they look horrible with this small a sample size and the composition of games/teams is somewhat short sighted. Everything is perception but had we beaten Liberty, West Michigan and Holy Cross so far, what would that tell us so far? We'd be probably top 15 so perception wise we'd be thinking playoff. I think being in the hole will show character of this team and of this coach. Both will shine.

I'm confident the ship turns this weekend.
 
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