Biletnikoff award

[TexanMark]

Babers top WR Gehrig Dieter while at BGSU transferred to Bama.

He has 8 catches for 175 yards this year

Gehrig Dieter

 

[ArchDuke]

Do they keep stats for broken tackles and yards after contact for WR? I figure they don't since I can't find them anywhere, but the kid breaks a ton of tackles and a lot of his catches are contested. Sometimes teams(Maryland) underutilize individual talent. ET is obviously better than his Maryland stats indicate.

 

[sufandu]

Plays like the one against BC, where the BC player had a hold of 1 arm, yet he caught the ball one handed, shook off the defender for a TD, put him in the running.

Absolutely. Never he said he wasn't. I only said that people saying he is a lock to be a finalist are overstating things.

It's amazing how anyone that tries to bring balance to this board is jumped on like they're trolling.

He's having a great year. I love the recognition he's bringing to the program. It shows how good our system is, as many have stated all season. He's going to set single season records that will probably be broken in 5 years by a stud that first noticed us because of the year he is having.

Dungey is having a great year. He's going to be even better as everyone gets more comfortable in the system and the pieces around him are upgraded/mature. He's going to set records that may be broken quickly by a successor that came here because of our system and the success he's having.

Now that I've repeated what everyone wants to keep saying as if it's not already known, have I proven my fanhood enough to say something that may point out a flaw in our team or a player or suggest another player from another team may be better from time to time?

 

[sufandu]

Babers top WR Gehrig Dieter while at BGSU transferred to Bama.

He has 8 catches for 175 yards this year

Gehrig Dieter

Are you suggesting that part of his previous success was due to his old system? I was told you can't do that.

 

[TheCusian]

Right. Have you seen film on all of the other receivers in order to say he's definitely better? The comment earlier (not by you but by another person) was that if he's not a finalist that there is something wrong with the system. That simply isn't true. His numbers put him in the conversation and then you have to dig beyond them. That includes trying to determine how much the system did to make his numbers that good. Is there an aspect of subjectivity to it? Yeah. There is with all of these awards. Nobody plays the exact same schedule in the exact same weather with the exact same supporting cast in the exact same system. All of that needs to be considered.

I'm not sure what the Calvin Johnson quote is supposed to mean. What I meant was the fact that he didn't play in a pass first offense was used to explain why he was the best despite inferior numbers to other people.

I agree that it's subjective.

I'm not arguing he should win.

I'm arguing that they system he plays in should not have an outsized influence (in either direction) on his consideration for the award.

 

[TheCusian]

It shows how good our system is, as many have stated all season. He's going to set single season records that will probably be broken in 5 years by a stud that first noticed us because of the year he is having.

This is what's getting you in trouble. It doesn't just show how good our system is - it shows you that AND how good he's been. Hence my original point: I don't know how to separate the system from the talent.

 

[GoCuse08]

Babers top WR Gehrig Dieter while at BGSU transferred to Bama.

He has 8 catches for 175 yards this year

Gehrig Dieter

Interesting. Wonder if he wishes he transferred here instead. I Wonder why he didn't follow Babers...did Babers not give him that option?

The ET story is quite an impressive one that I would think will get more national attention as the season wraps up and everyone sees his unreal performance. I might have to check out marylands board to see if there is any discussion about him. He went from an afterthought to one of the national leading receivers. Crazy. One of My favorite SU receivers all time and I feel like I barely know him. I would say he made the right decision to transfer...smart kid to seek out Babers after watching the beat down BG did to his "superior" team.

 

[721Comstock]

This is what's getting you in trouble. It doesn't just show how good our system is - it shows you that AND how good he's been. Hence my original point: I don't know how to separate the system from the talent.

It also might just mean, that the 'best" WR at BGSU, still can't crack the rotation at 'Bama.
Which makes perfect sense, given the overall talent disparity between those programs.

 

[GoCuse08]

Is it the system or does Babers and staff know how to develop receivers better? As millhouse already pointed out...all of a sudden Estime and Erv can catch now and according to Maryland fans ET couldn't catch the ball and now he is unstoppable. Give them a few things to learn and repeat it a million times. So simple but effective.

Some receivers are so naturally tallented (i.e. Randy moss) that they just excel no matter what. Some receivers have the athletic ability and just need good coaching and a million practice reps to be good to great.

 

[TheCusian]

Is it the system or does Babers and staff know how to develop receivers better? As millhouse already pointed out...all of a sudden Estime and Erv can catch now and according to Maryland fans ET couldn't catch the ball and now he is unstoppable. Give them a few things to learn and repeat it a million times. So simple but effective.

Some receivers are so naturally tallented (i.e. Randy moss) that they just excel no matter what. Some receivers have the athletic ability and just need good coaching and a million practice reps to be good to great.

Exactly. Another thing to untangle from the soup that makes a guys productive.

 

[TexanMark]

Interesting. Wonder if he wishes he transferred here instead. I Wonder why he didn't follow Babers...did Babers not give him that option?

The ET story is quite an impressive one that I would think will get more national attention as the season wraps up and everyone sees his unreal performance. I might have to check out marylands board to see if there is any discussion about him.

A writer out of Toledo claimed SU tampered with the kid so SU backed off IMHO

 

[sufandu]

This is what's getting you in trouble. It doesn't just show how good our system is - it shows you that AND how good he's been. Hence my original point: I don't know how to separate the system from the talent.

So go back to the original statement that started our discussion. Should the system be blown up if he isn't at the awards ceremony as a finalist?

 

[upperdeck]

Babers top WR Gehrig Dieter while at BGSU transferred to Bama.

He has 8 catches for 175 yards this year

Gehrig Dieter

I think he traded stats for a NC

 

[Orijinal]

So go back to the original statement that started our discussion. Should the system be blown up if he isn't at the awards ceremony as a finalist?

No. And, IMO, he only has a legit shot of winning it if Syracuse runs the table...which it probably won't

 

[TheCusian]

So go back to the original statement that started our discussion. Should the system be blown up if he isn't at the awards ceremony as a finalist?

No. Go back and read my posts. That was never my contention.

I jumped in to say "I don't know how to separate the talent from the system"

 

[texascpa]

Babers top WR Gehrig Dieter while at BGSU transferred to Bama.

He has 8 catches for 175 yards this year

Gehrig Dieter

In Dieter's defense, Hurt is not that good of a passer, yet.

 

[chugg21]

This award is usually one that would go to Mike Williams for being the best WR on a top 10 team and also has the most NFL potential. His stats aren't crazy though so who knows what'll happen.

 

[sufandu]

No. Go back and read my posts. That was never my contention.

I jumped in to say "I don't know how to separate the talent from the system"

Actually you said the poster you responded to couldn't, reread your first post. But that's exactly what voters are required to do, along with analyzing all the other factors we mentioned, so why not discuss it instead of dismissing it?

 

[Orangepace]

I compiled data from the past 6 winners of the Biletnikoff Award below and compared to E-T's stats prorated for the games not played yet to arrive at a full 12 game season. Based on this info:

• E-T needs an uptick in TDs. The winner has historically been amongst the top 3-5 (going back even further than just the 6 winners). Otherwise, his stats are very on-par with past winners of the award.
• Those clamoring that you "have to adjust for system" are off base. The %'s reflected next to Comp/Att/Yds/TDs represent the respective WR's contributions to those total team stats. Our offense isn't significantly different than the averages, other than (again) TDs.

 

[CuseOnly]

I think he traded stats for a NC

The Tide are only averaging 228 yards a game passing.

 

[CuseOnly]

I compiled data from the past 6 winners of the Biletnikoff Award below and compared to E-T's stats prorated for the games not played yet to arrive at a full 12 game season. Based on this info:

• E-T needs an uptick in TDs. The winner has historically been amongst the top 3-5 (going back even further than just the 6 winners). Otherwise, his stats are very on-par with past winners of the award.
• Those clamoring that you "have to adjust for system" are off base. The %'s reflected next to Comp/Att/Yds/TDs represent the respective WR's contributions to those total team stats. Our offense isn't significantly different than the averages, other than (again) TDs.

View attachment 80002

Wait, you mean a receiver like Odell Backham Jr. didn't win it...he was clearly the best receiver in the game the year he left. Goes to show that the receiver with the most talent doesn't win.

It's talent, system and production together.

 

[CuseCrew08]

I think AET is going to have to have great games against Clemson and FSU to have a real shot at winning. If he can go 100+ with a TD it will show the voters that he is the real deal.

 

[TheCusian]

Actually you said the poster you responded to couldn't, reread your first post. But that's exactly what voters are required to do, along with analyzing all the other factors we mentioned, so why not discuss it instead of dismissing it?

Semantics, bro, semantics. You and everyone else knew what I meant.

--

That's what they are tasked to do, sure. My argument is that it's really hard to do. Do you separate coaching from talent too?

It's dumb to punish a guy for playing well because he has more opportunity due to the system. Or "hey this kid had a really good WR coach." It's about taking advantage of the chances you get. Amba Etta Tawo has. It's undeniable. It's a mix of scheme, talent, coaching, and making the most of his opportunity.

Like I've said a thousand times in this thread: if he was just wide open all day due to scheme, you could dismiss him. But that's not what has happened.

I'm not dismissing anything.

 

[TheCusian]

I compiled data from the past 6 winners of the Biletnikoff Award below and compared to E-T's stats prorated for the games not played yet to arrive at a full 12 game season. Based on this info:

• E-T needs an uptick in TDs. The winner has historically been amongst the top 3-5 (going back even further than just the 6 winners). Otherwise, his stats are very on-par with past winners of the award.
• Those clamoring that you "have to adjust for system" are off base. The %'s reflected next to Comp/Att/Yds/TDs represent the respective WR's contributions to those total team stats. Our offense isn't significantly different than the averages, other than (again) TDs.

View attachment 80002

Nice mix of offensive systems.

 

[shandeezy7]

Which Syracuse football player made ESPN's Top 50 list?