Boneyard

[dasher]

I just don't see it that way. I think Ollie is really getting it done on the recruiting trail and he has put a team together that can look to the FF as a realistic goal. I don't see a gap in talent between UConn and SU as programs and as teams in 2016, most people have UConn in the top 20.

It doesn't matter if Purvis is a transfer - or Gibbs & Miller are grad transfers. Just that they are on the court. All 3 are big time players who will be be starting immediately.

Hamilton got 11 points, 8 rebounds and 4 assists per game last year. He had a more productive year (especially as a playmaker) than the similarly ranked McCullough - the biggest difference is that Hamilton is back for his sophomore year.

Going forward, Richardson is highly rated and but so is Adams. I think the consensus is that Adams is slightly better coming out of HS. Adams will be coming into a talented backcourt, so I doubt he starts and likely will be playing 2 or more years.

Enoch is rated higher on scuout than any of the bigs you are bringing in 2015 but rated below them on other services. UConn is in the mix with several high rated players for 2016. They did get former top 30 player Larrier as a transfer from VCU. Both SU and UConn are after Gilbert but the tea leaves seem to be in UConn's favor at this point.

I think Ollie and UConn both have positive energy to remain attractive to top players.

The main point is that the longer UConn is in the AAC, the worse things will get. I don't believe it will be an immediate fall from grace. Just a slow drip, drip, drip. Of course, the other point is, why are you here? To convince us that you are not in dire trouble long term because of your conference. Very hard sell. And that was the writers point that the nitwits on your board can't grasp. That ranking wasn't what programs have done the best over the last 20 years. It was what are the best jobs right now. There were no non p-5 jobs on that list. I would have had UConn at 15 but it's not like the writer had an agenda against UConn. He writes for a Syracuse paper but is not a Syracuse fan. and once again, what happened to that news in May?

 

[NineOneSeven]

The main point is that the longer UConn is in the AAC, the worse things will get. I don't believe it will be an immediate fall from grace. Just a slow drip, drip, drip. Of course, the other point is, why are you here? To convince us that you are not in dire trouble long term because of your conference. Very hard sell. And that was the writers point that the nitwits on your board can't grasp. That ranking wasn't what programs have done the best over the last 20 years. It was what are the best jobs right now. There were no non p-5 jobs on that list. I would have had UConn at 15 but it's not like the writer had an agenda against UConn. He writes for a Syracuse paper but is not a Syracuse fan. and once again, what happened to that news in May?

He's here because anytime Uconn gets brought up on the board he gets a massive flow of blood to his johnson

 

[sdhusky]

The main point is that the longer UConn is in the AAC, the worse things will get. I don't believe it will be an immediate fall from grace. Just a slow drip, drip, drip. Of course, the other point is, why are you here? To convince us that you are not in dire trouble long term because of your conference. Very hard sell. And that was the writers point that the nitwits on your board can't grasp. That ranking wasn't what programs have done the best over the last 20 years. It was what are the best jobs right now. There were no non p-5 jobs on that list. I would have had UConn at 15 but it's not like the writer had an agenda against UConn. He writes for a Syracuse paper but is not a Syracuse fan. and once again, what happened to that news in May?

I didn't have a problem with the article and didn't respond on the boneyard. Not everyone thinks the same as me.

I get the reasoning that a non-P5 program can't be top 10 but I think in UConn's case, there is an exception because of the history, the family of former players, facilities etc. I think it's in the top 10.

 

[longtimefan]

Help me understand your thinking on this - why is this delusional? Larrier was more highly regarded out of HS and transferred when Smart left VCU for TX.

Didn't Larrier also have a disappointing frosh year?

 

[Orangezoo]

I just don't see it that way. I think Ollie is really getting it done on the recruiting trail and he has put a team together that can look to the FF as a realistic goal. I don't see a gap in talent between UConn and SU as programs and as teams in 2016, most people have UConn in the top 20.

It doesn't matter if Purvis is a transfer - or Gibbs & Miller are grad transfers. Just that they are on the court. All 3 are big time players who will be be starting immediately.

Hamilton got 11 points, 8 rebounds and 4 assists per game last year. He had a more productive year (especially as a playmaker) than the similarly ranked McCullough - the biggest difference is that Hamilton is back for his sophomore year.

Going forward, Richardson is highly rated and but so is Adams. I think the consensus is that Adams is slightly better coming out of HS. Adams will be coming into a talented backcourt, so I doubt he starts and likely will be playing 2 or more years.

Enoch is rated higher on scuout than any of the bigs you are bringing in 2015 but rated below them on other services. UConn is in the mix with several high rated players for 2016. They did get former top 30 player Larrier as a transfer from VCU. Both SU and UConn are after Gilbert but the tea leaves seem to be in UConn's favor at this point.

I think Ollie and UConn both have positive energy to remain attractive to top players.

I respect your enthusiasm and realize there will never be a harmonius exchange regarding comparing our two programs. The reality is that positive energy alone isnt enough in addition to lacking the amount of exposure a program many on your board would dismiss as inferior due to the number of titles currently gets puts you at a disadvantage. A lot of that has to do with your conference. From a talent perspective your program has leaned heavily on calhoun guys and while ollie held the clipboard the last title really belonged to JC. This year will be a telling year for you all. Boatright couldnt do it himself and the supporting cast just wasnt strong enough. Now its all on ollie. Purvis is a good player but kind of like kris joseph/triche for us has a tendency to get in his own head too often. So when we look into the future and that has to include conference quality along with how much ollie has relied on calhoun guys to get it done there are a lot of questions. For SU it is fairly straight forward. The exact fortune you all experienced we experienced the opposite with injuries and player discipline. It happens. But aside from ncaa restrictions we are the same strong program in a better conference who should have more titles to compare but don't. You all get out of the AAC and the paradigm of perceptiom shifts immensely.

 

[moqui]

it's pretty sad, really.

Jim Calhoun accomplished one of the greatest coaching jobs in history, building UConn into no worse than the 2nd best program in the 64 team era. But despite that, despite the 4 national titles and producing so many NBA players, all the Boners really want is what they can never get - acceptance and embrace by Syracuse fans. It's classic little brother syndrome

 

[dasher]

it's pretty sad, really.

Jim Calhoun accomplished one of the greatest coaching jobs in history, building UConn into no worse than the 2nd best program in the 64 team era. But despite that, despite the 4 national titles and producing so manyNBA players, all the Boners really want is what they can never get - acceptance and embrace by Syracuse fans. It's classic little brother syndrome

Moqui, I don't think you are taking in to consideration that Syracuse and their fans, have moved on. I respect that you and marsh give UConn the benefit of the doubt at every chance, but it is very difficult for this fan base to not look down their noses at UConn and other non p-5 schools. Sure, if realignment comes again and someone throws a lifeboat to them or UMass, things will be different. But as for right now, how can our fan base be expected to embrace and give acceptance to schools whose programs may not exist (at least at the D-1 level) in 10 years. Not everyone is as compassionate as you and Marsh.

 

[Antiprodigy]

UConn though has capitalized on transfers in Miller and Gibbs. Transfers may not count in recruiting classes but they do suit up so I don't think they can be completely discounted. Honestly, next year who will do more for their teams: SUs four freshmen or UConns 2+2? It will be interesting to see. The number of transfers UConn has brought in has made it harder to compare recruiting classes, IMO.

Still just for S+G, in 2016 UConn has a transfer coming in named Larrier. He's a transfer and "doesn't count" but still will be filling a spot for UConn in 2016-2017 and IMO is a comparable talent to Moyer. Who knows who reaches their potential? Again we shall see.

This question comes more from my own personal curiosity than any other particular reason, as I am an SU fan, and since SU doesn't play UConn anymore, they really don't mean anything to me. I have no personal animosity toward UConn, but from cutthroat us against the world standpoint, would prefer them to be down as it removes the potential for a northeast regional competitor to SU for recruits.

But anyway, the point of my post. (and sdhusky feel free to chime in on your viewpoint on this issue as well) Are you at all concerned with the significant number of transfers you have been getting recently, rather than recruiting incoming freshmen? In my mind, it starts to seem like the recruits are less convinced about UConn, it's conference, and it's future. It seems like some of these transfers are from lesser programs (ie. Cornell, VCU & Seton Hall) than UConn, which might lead one to think they are stealing from the even poorer, uglier step-child in an attempt to maintain their richer lifestyle. It certainly seems to be along the lines of comments other posters have made about a slow descent as a result missing the P5 boat.

 

[jordoo]

The bottom line is over time there will be a ceiling for a team who is in the AAC. You can argue about what that ceiling is but in general not being in a P5 conference, over the long term will limit the pool of recruits that you can draw from. The other issue is that the AAC is a spread out conference so even the UConn fans are going to lack interest in plenty of the bball matchups. I have wondered if going Indie in football and trying to have stayed in the BE would have been better for them bball wise. Of course the BE teams would have had to agree to that and they seemed pretty much done with fball schools.

 

[dasher]

The bottom line is over time there will be a ceiling for a team who is in the AAC. You can argue about what that ceiling is but in general not being in a P5 conference, over the long term will limit the pool of recruits that you can draw from. The other issue is that the AAC is a spread out conference so even the UConn fans are going to lack interest in plenty of the bball matchups. I have wondered if going Indie in football and trying to have stayed in the BE would have been better for them bball wise. Of course the BE teams would have had to agree to that and they seemed pretty much done with fball schools.

Indie in football would never work. First, try and get games after the midway point in a season. Second, try and get home games.

 

[jordoo]

Indie in football would never work. First, try and get games after the midway point in a season. Second, try and get home games.

I suppose but playing football in the AAC doesn't really work all that well either. Bottom line is not being in a P5 and still having D1 football is a no win situation at this point.

 

[sdhusky]

This question comes more from my own personal curiosity than any other particular reason, as I am an SU fan, and since SU doesn't play UConn anymore, they really don't mean anything to me. I have no personal animosity toward UConn, but from cutthroat us against the world standpoint, would prefer them to be down as it removes the potential for a northeast regional competitor to SU for recruits.

But anyway, the point of my post. (and sdhusky feel free to chime in on your viewpoint on this issue as well) Are you at all concerned with the significant number of transfers you have been getting recently, rather than recruiting incoming freshmen? In my mind, it starts to seem like the recruits are less convinced about UConn, it's conference, and it's future. It seems like some of these transfers are from lesser programs (ie. Cornell, VCU & Seton Hall) than UConn, which might lead one to think they are stealing from the even poorer, uglier step-child in an attempt to maintain their richer lifestyle. It certainly seems to be along the lines of comments other posters have made about a slow descent as a result missing the P5 boat.

I'm not concerned about the transfers. At the end of the day, what matters is how good they are, right? Miller was a twice All-Ivy first team and performed very well against P5 schools. He shoots 85% from the line and kenpom has him as one of the best defensive rebounders in the country statistically. Gibbs is an All-BE level guard and shot 45% from 3 point last year. We'll only have them for one year, but having Gibbs allow Adams to grow into his role and Miller addresses the biggest weakness of the team. Both are day 1 starters on a top 15 or so team.

UConn will have them for one year but I predict they will be more productive than McCullough and Ennis were in their 1 year at SU.

Between Purvis, Hamilton & Adams all being top 20 players, there haven't been many times UConn has had that much recruiting Guru stars on the court at the same time. Of course, Calhoun proved to be better at evaluating talent than the guys who hand out stars so its a huge stretch to say they are more talented than previous teams until they actually prove it on the court.

Same thing with Larrier - he is a talented guy who committed more to play for Smart than VCU. When Smart left, he decided to transfer. Both Purvis and Larrier had UConn as their second choice out of high school.

I think SU fans tend to dramatically underestimate UConn's national perception and appeal. We can schedule OOC games with top tier programs every year and Gibbs said that was a factor in choosing UConn. Diarra scrimmaged against Andre Drummond on his official visit. VJ King has a picture of him and Ray Allen in his twitter feed. Ollie is very much the head of the UConn family now and former players are still really connected to him and the program. SU fans snicker when NBA super stars pay compliments to Ollie but I think 18 year old kids don't. We have phenomenal brand new practice facilities with a super crowded trophy case and we are on TV almost every game.

Clearly, this stuff matter more than P5 affiliation - do you really think Rutgers or Penn St or BCU will win more than UConn over the next decade? - but does it matter so much that it keeps us on the level with KY, Duke, KS, UofL that we've been on the last 20 years? (just counting wins here)

Now, if it turns out Ollie can't really connect and recruit & can't really coach and win, the program will definately be hurt by the lack of a P5 affiliation. If Ollie leaves and we can't get someone as good, it will hurt.

The goal at UConn every year is to win another National Championship. I don't think that has changed one iota.

 

[dasher]

I'm not concerned about the transfers. At the end of the day, what matters is how good they are, right? Miller was a twice All-Ivy first team and performed very well against P5 schools. He shoots 85% from the line and kenpom has him as one of the best defensive rebounders in the country statistically. Gibbs is an All-BE level guard and shot 45% from 3 point last year. We'll only have them for one year, but having Gibbs allow Adams to grow into his role and Miller addresses the biggest weakness of the team. Both are day 1 starters on a top 15 or so team.

UConn will have them for one year but I predict they will be more productive than McCullough and Ennis were in their 1 year at SU.

Between Purvis, Hamilton & Adams all being top 20 players, there haven't been many times UConn has had that much recruiting Guru stars on the court at the same time. Of course, Calhoun proved to be better at evaluating talent than the guys who hand out stars so its a huge stretch to say they are more talented than previous teams until they actually prove it on the court.

Same thing with Larrier - he is a talented guy who committed more to play for Smart than VCU. When Smart left, he decided to transfer. Both Purvis and Larrier had UConn as their second choice out of high school.

I think SU fans tend to dramatically underestimate UConn's national perception and appeal. We can schedule OOC games with top tier programs every year and Gibbs said that was a factor in choosing UConn. Diarra scrimmaged against Andre Drummond on his official visit. VJ King has a picture of him and Ray Allen in his twitter feed. Ollie is very much the head of the UConn family now and former players are still really connected to him and the program. SU fans snicker when NBA super stars pay compliments to Ollie but I think 18 year old kids don't. We have phenomenal brand new practice facilities with a super crowded trophy case and we are on TV almost every game.

Clearly, this stuff matter more than P5 affiliation - do you really think Rutgers or Penn St or BCU will win more than UConn over the next decade? - but does it matter so much that it keeps us on the level with KY, Duke, KS, UofL that we've been on the last 20 years? (just counting wins here)

Now, if it turns out Ollie can't really connect and recruit & can't really coach and win, the program will definately be hurt by the lack of a P5 affiliation. If Ollie leaves and we can't get someone as good, it will hurt.

The goal at UConn every year is to win another National Championship. I don't think that has changed one iota.

more productive than Ennis? Are you serious? Ennis was flat out great for us. Did you watch him play? And as for the goal, you have had two great Cinderella runs. Good for you. But over the last 6 years, you haven't been elite like you were for the previous 20 years or so. The longer you stay at the AAC level, the more those goals will change. The damage has started. It isn't complete, yet.

 

[Orangezoo]

I'm not concerned about the transfers. At the end of the day, what matters is how good they are, right? Miller was a twice All-Ivy first team and performed very well against P5 schools. He shoots 85% from the line and kenpom has him as one of the best defensive rebounders in the country statistically. Gibbs is an All-BE level guard and shot 45% from 3 point last year. We'll only have them for one year, but having Gibbs allow Adams to grow into his role and Miller addresses the biggest weakness of the team. Both are day 1 starters on a top 15 or so team.

UConn will have them for one year but I predict they will be more productive than McCullough and Ennis were in their 1 year at SU.

Between Purvis, Hamilton & Adams all being top 20 players, there haven't been many times UConn has had that much recruiting Guru stars on the court at the same time. Of course, Calhoun proved to be better at evaluating talent than the guys who hand out stars so its a huge stretch to say they are more talented than previous teams until they actually prove it on the court.

Same thing with Larrier - he is a talented guy who committed more to play for Smart than VCU. When Smart left, he decided to transfer. Both Purvis and Larrier had UConn as their second choice out of high school.

I think SU fans tend to dramatically underestimate UConn's national perception and appeal. We can schedule OOC games with top tier programs every year and Gibbs said that was a factor in choosing UConn. Diarra scrimmaged against Andre Drummond on his official visit. VJ King has a picture of him and Ray Allen in his twitter feed. Ollie is very much the head of the UConn family now and former players are still really connected to him and the program. SU fans snicker when NBA super stars pay compliments to Ollie but I think 18 year old kids don't. We have phenomenal brand new practice facilities with a super crowded trophy case and we are on TV almost every game.

Clearly, this stuff matter more than P5 affiliation - do you really think Rutgers or Penn St or BCU will win more than UConn over the next decade? - but does it matter so much that it keeps us on the level with KY, Duke, KS, UofL that we've been on the last 20 years? (just counting wins here)

Now, if it turns out Ollie can't really connect and recruit & can't really coach and win, the program will definately be hurt by the lack of a P5 affiliation. If Ollie leaves and we can't get someone as good, it will hurt.

The goal at UConn every year is to win another National Championship. I don't think that has changed one iota.

A few things here:

1- i hope you really arent lumping ennis and mcculloughs productivity in the same sentence. That is a serious mistake given how productive ennis is.

2- there is no underestimation of Uconns national reputation. Regular season results have been mediocre with magic in march from calhoun recruited players. No need for a sales pitch here. Seeing the product minus the last calhoun star guard this year showed the current challenges your program faces. I have no doubt ollie has a lot of friends in high places but there are many programs in non p5 conferences who can stake the same claim. I will say again this year will tell an important story on where your program is as its mostly ollies guys now.

3- this post speaks to the occasional reference to your delusion. Many cogent points have been made by cuse fans in this thread and you respond again with a brochure about uconn while ignoring valid sentiments expressed by opposing views along with making claims like you did about ennis' productivity. Its not only passive aggressive but also mistaken. At this point beyond trying your best used car salesman tactics i dont get what your trying to accomplish.

 

[topdog18]

But over the last 6 years, you haven't been elite like you were for the previous 20 years or so. The longer you stay at the AAC level, the more those goals will change. The damage has started. It isn't complete, yet.

LOL. This perfectly defines Syracuse Fans. Yes, if two National Championships in those 6 years years isn't considered elite, please tell me what you describe your program and your 1 'Cinderella Run' then.

 

[Briancuse]

The main point is that the longer UConn is in the AAC, the worse things will get. I don't believe it will be an immediate fall from grace. Just a slow drip, drip, drip. Of course, the other point is, why are you here? To convince us that you are not in dire trouble long term because of your conference. Very hard sell. And that was the writers point that the nitwits on your board can't grasp. That ranking wasn't what programs have done the best over the last 20 years. It was what are the best jobs right now. There were no non p-5 jobs on that list. I would have had UConn at 15 but it's not like the writer had an agenda against UConn. He writes for a Syracuse paper but is not a Syracuse fan. and once again, what happened to that news in May?

Its going to be a tough sell telling a kid who has acc and big ten offers, that he will be playing conference games against the like of Tulsa and East Carolina.

 

[sdhusky]

Its going to be a tough sell telling a kid who has acc and big ten offers, that he will be playing conference games against the like of Tulsa and East Carolina.

When Gibbs picked UConn over Ohio St, the sentiment on their board was "well, I can't blame him for wanting to play there"

Gibbs scored 3 more points a game, shot much, much better from 3 point line & average about an assist and a half less per game.

Note: I said McCullough and Ennis vs. Gibbs and Miller. Productivity, not clutch shots etc.

 

[sdhusky]

But over the last 6 years, you haven't been elite like you were for the previous 20 years or so. The longer you stay at the AAC level, the more those goals will change. The damage has started. It isn't complete, yet.

Over the last 7 years, 3 FF and 2 NC's go a long way. Probably about a dozen players drafted in that time frame too.

 

[sdhusky]

A few things here:

1- i hope you really arent lumping ennis and mcculloughs productivity in the same sentence. That is a serious mistake given how productive ennis is.

2- there is no underestimation of Uconns national reputation. Regular season results have been mediocre with magic in march from calhoun recruited players. No need for a sales pitch here. Seeing the product minus the last calhoun star guard this year showed the current challenges your program faces. I have no doubt ollie has a lot of friends in high places but there are many programs in non p5 conferences who can stake the same claim. I will say again this year will tell an important story on where your program is as its mostly ollies guys now.

3- this post speaks to the occasional reference to your delusion. Many cogent points have been made by cuse fans in this thread and you respond again with a brochure about uconn while ignoring valid sentiments expressed by opposing views along with making claims like you did about ennis' productivity. Its not only passive aggressive but also mistaken. At this point beyond trying your best used car salesman tactics i dont get what your trying to accomplish.

1) - I was comparing 1 and dones vs. One and dones. We can visit it at the end of the season and compare the pair of players.

2) I don't think there is a college coach in the game that can match Ollies connections with NBA players and coaches. P5 or otherwise.

And yeah, this will be Ollie's turn with his players. But I remember when SU fans thought Calhoun's first BE Championship was a fluke (lived in Syracuse at the time and had season tix to the dome for BB and football) & when it was only because of Donyell and recruiting violations. And then the Calhoun's NCAA violation was the end. Then the AAC was the end. Then Calhoun retiring was the end. Now its Ollie's players signalling the end. Maybe. But SU fans have been wrong about the end of UConn BB for 25 years now.

 

[Briancuse]

1) - I was comparing 1 and dones vs. One and dones. We can visit it at the end of the season and compare the pair of players.

2) I don't think there is a college coach in the game that can match Ollies connections with NBA players and coaches. P5 or otherwise.

And yeah, this will be Ollie's turn with his players. But I remember when SU fans thought Calhoun's first BE Championship was a fluke (lived in Syracuse at the time and had season tix to the dome for BB and football) & when it was only because of Donyell and recruiting violations. And then the Calhoun's NCAA violation was the end. Then the AAC was the end. Then Calhoun retiring was the end. Now its Ollie's players signalling the end. Maybe. But SU fans have been wrong about the end of UConn BB for 25 years now.

You don't think Coach K or Tom Izzo can match Ollie's Nba connections?

 

[sdhusky]

You don't think Coach K or Tom Izzo can match Ollie's Nba connections?

Not even close.

 

[Briancuse]

Not even close.

You do realize that Coach K coaches the Mens Usa Bball team, right?

 

[dasher]

Not even close.

or coach K.? Not even close? Really?

 

[sdhusky]

or coach K.? Not even close? Really?

Yes.

 

[dasher]

LOL. This perfectly defines Syracuse Fans. Yes, if two National Championships in those 6 years years isn't considered elite, please tell me what you describe your program and your 1 'Cinderella Run' then.

Just for fun, ask all of your friends if they can name all of the schools in the AAC. You don't get out of that league and in to a real league, you're cooked.