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Boxing

I scored it for Loma confidently, but it was a close fight, I don’t agree with the robbery takes flooding twitter.
 
ssbriefcase said:
I mean, I get how scoring works, I just thought (not just you), but when I heard and some others in my house also, the one judge had his card 116-112, that it was more than what I thought the fight was. I also know it was a very hard fight to score, so I'm not claiming it was a monumental thing I took issue with or anything.

Yeah, I feel like we'd be insanely lucky if we got Shakur vs Loma, and Haney v Davis and then the winners square off.
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I really don’t see anybody beating Shakur anytime soon. I think he’d go 2-0 on way to solidifying himself as one of the best boxers on the planet.
 
TheHaze315 said:
I really don’t see anybody beating Shakur anytime soon. I think he’d go 2-0 on way to solidifying himself as one of the best boxers on the planet.
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They're all so close, but gun to my head, I'm taking Tank over all. He's just so battle tested against many different styles, and his IQ is off the charts, has the highest degree of versatility. I thought I might be saying that about Haney this morning, but nope, he couldn't figure some things out, and looked one dimensional at times. Also, Tanks power, he's had crazy KO's to the head, see Santa Cruz, and he's got body shot KO on Garcia.
 
SWC75 said:
I watched tonight’s ESPN card, first on the network, then on PPV. Here were the match-up and stats, (from Boxrec):

Nico Ali Walsh #203LW 8-0 (5KO), 6-0 tall with a 74 inch reach.
Vs.
Danny Rosenberger #180LW 13-9 (4-1) 5-10 ? reach

Junto Nakatani #4JBW 24-0 (18) 5-7½ 67”
Vs.
Andrew Moloney #9JBW 25-2 (16) 5-5 65”

Raymond Muratella #40LW 17-0 (14) 5-8 ?
Vs.
Jeremiah Nakathia (unrated for some reason) 23-2 (19) ? ?

Oscar Valdez (unrated for some reason but ESPN has him #1JLW) 30-1 (23) 5-5½ 66”
Vs.
Adam Lopez #73JLW 16-4 (6-1) 5-8 69½

Devin Haney (has all the belts but Boxrec rated him #3LW behind Sakur Stevenson and Tank Davis -time to get it on!) 29-0 (15) 5-8 71”
Vs.
Vasyl Lomachenko #5LW 17-2 (11) 5-7 651/2”

Walsh was the bigger name being the grandson of Muhammad Ali and had the better record at 8-0 vs. 13-9 But Rosenberger fought more like Ali, with some of Floyd Mayweather added in. His constant foot and head movement totally confused Nico, who was stiff and never moved his head, causing him to absorb some hard shots. He was fortunate Danny didn’t have much power. Danny should have won easily but he had no shot at that and wound up with a ‘split draw’: one judge had it even and the two others had it for either fighter. Isn’t that convenient.

Junto Nakatani is a rising star who wants to follow in Naoya Inoue’s footsteps. He’s not that good, (“the Monster would have taken Moloney out early), but he’s very good. He’s tall for a bantam but skilled – good from distance but also able to win the infighting and tie his man up when needed – but he can sure punch. Moloney, who’s twin brother won the WBO Bantam title a week ago in Stockholm, would have been better off facing Inoue and getting KO’d early because he took awful punishment tonight. He was floored in the second round. Then both boxers drew blood with an accidental head but. Until the cornermen miraculously to patch them up, they both looked like their faces had been through a meatgrinder. Nakatani dominated round after round, in total control as the persistent Moloney kept getting inside and then losing the battle there, just as he was from distance. Finally, in the 6th and 7th rounds, the momentum seemed to change as Junto appeared to be tired and his punches lacked their previous force. Moloney seemed to be landing more punches. It was an illusion as Moloney then faded. In the 11th round he was decked again and the ref was close to stopping it. To Moloney’s credit, he kept coming forward and was even blocking punches, although he’d stopped throwing them, using all his energy for defense. His corner was considering not sending him out for the 12th and it would have been better if they hadn’t. Midway through the round, Junot ducked under a punch and threw a left hand that hit with such force the ‘thud ‘ could be heard all over the arena. Moloney went down like a felled tree and lay on the canvas making involuntary movements with his fists while his eyes glazed over. He was down for several minutes until they sat him up, then put him on a stool. He was on his way to the hospital after the fight. I hope he’s OK. You never know. The commentator said “you don’t ‘play’ boxing”. A friend of mine did some boxing while in the service and said he didn’t much like it. Hitting a man’s head, he told me, was like punching a cabbage.

Muratella made short work of Nakathila, the ref stopping it in the second round. Raymond moved better and punched straighter and Jeremiah kept his jaw too high. He might as well have been pointing to it.

Lopez was game and showed Valdez some movement but, in the words of Andre Ward, “Lopez was hitting Valdez with little brother shots and Valdez was hitting him with big brother shots – more direct with more power. Lopez held up pretty well but it was hard to give him a round. I the 10th round his nose exploded but he kept fighting on, although he fell down on his own twice. He was back on his feet at the final bell, so there’s that. “It’s a tough way to make a living.”

Haney-Lomachenko was a high-level fight. Haney was the larger man and had the advantage in reach, but also had to sweat himself down to this weight (this may be his last fight at 135 pounds). He was also the younger man by 11 years. Fights are fought from the ground up and this fight was all about footwork and distance. Haney tried backing up Loma in the early going. He was using his famous jab to set up one shot at a time. But he wasn’t moving his head enough and, after a couple of rounds, Loma timed his jab and responded with combinations. Haney changed strategy and maintained distance through lateral movement. He attacked when got an angle on Loma and won several rounds in a row, (although the rounds in this fight were very competitive, which creates a lot of different views on the outcome). The fight changed again in the 10th round when Loma unleashed a series of combinations which got Haney moving backwards, and holding on when Loma caught up with him. Loma’s hardest shots came early in the 11th. Then, midway through the 11th, he lost his aggressiveness and Haney started to peck away at him. Haney seems the more desperate fighter in the 12th, stood his ground and traded with Loma on at least even terms until the final bell.

I graded it 8 rounds for Haney to 4 for Loma, 116-112. That’s what one judge had it and the other two were 115-113, unanimous decision. They flashed the punch count numbers for a nano-second. They did show a punch count for round 11 of 2-20 for Loma, which is ridiculous, even though I agree he won the round. Max Kellerman had it 113-115 for Loma but noted that many rounds were so close it could have gone either way. He said that looks at each round and asks the question ”Who would I rather be? Personally, I wouldn’t want to be either one of them. It seems like it would hurt.
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This is why boxing is my favorite sport - best fighting the best. Happens so rarely these days due to politics of the sport. I was really looking forward to this one. Loved the elite skill level and nuances. Davis/Garcia was “bread and circuses” for the masses and media. This was for the purists. And the differences were marked IMO….

I scored it 115-113 for Loma. Almost every rd (save 10th and 11th) were razor close. No real problem going the other way (even though the punch stats and effective, “eye catching” aggression slightly favored the Ukrainian). Surprised the official decision wasn’t split. Dave Moretti (one of the judges) scored the 10th for Haney (which was ridiculous). Thought Loma made a mistake by not closing harder in the 12th. Haney looked defeated (mentally) at the end of the 11th. In fact, thought Haney looked surprised that his hand was raised after the verdict. Body language - fighter’s (in their heart) know when they win (and don’t).

As identified, story of the fight was Haney’s size and jab/length vs Loma’s footwork and ability to create a favorable pocket. I thought Loma couldn’t waste too many early rds “processing” (like he did against Teo Lopez). And he didn’t (at least as much as he has in the past). I was surprised at Haney’s early aggression and body work (in retrospect, potentially won him the necessary early stanzas and the fight). Unfortunately, Haney isn’t a big puncher (so not as effective at slowing the much smaller Vasily as Haney’s braintrust might have hoped). I thought Loma (by rd 4-5) neutralized Devon’s jab and found his range with a lead left. Haney couldn’t escape the punch during the middle/late rds because Loma maneuvered him straight back into it. Again, a pleasure to watch this level of craft….

I doubt Loma (at his age, size differential and amateur “wear on the tread”) can muster another supreme, elite effort like this. I thought it would take a SRL-MMH or Duran-Davey Moore/Barkley kind of effort to win this. Older, smaller great fighter pulling out that one last elite performance to overcome the younger, bigger, stronger kid. Hope he retires (but probably won’t). Haney is a promotional free agent now (end of TR contract). Probably goes up to 140 or beyond (has the frame for it, but not sure the power). If he signs with PBC, we might get Haney/Tank. If he re-signs with Bob, we could get a rematch, winner of Taylor/Teo or Shakur. All great options for this fight fan….

Boxing isn’t dead (yet). Allot of Spence/Crawford chatter for late summer and Monster-Fulton is an excellent matchup. Not sure what happened to Fury/Usyk, but hopeful we get something unified for the Heavies in the future. Canelo will retire soon and open up the LtHeavies (Beterbiev-Bivol) and Middles (Benevidez, Charlo’s, Tszyu, etc). Looking forward to it…..
 
ssbriefcase said:
Wow, very interesting. I definitely had it more tight than that, I did have Haney winning the 12th. As everyone's alluded to, the scoring was very difficult in this one, if the judges would've gave it to Loma, there would be no complaints from me.

Haney in his corner asking his dad what to do since Loma figured him out, and came at will with the straight left, was one of the most vulnerable moments I've seen from that level a fighter in a long time. His dad side stepped the concern and told him his bricks were heavier. He needed technical advice, not that.
Haney almost never throwing combos and fighting like there were bees swarming around his head in the later rounds was concerning to me.
He's very lucky, and he better go back watch the film and get some perspective and learn from this. He'll have to be a lot more versatile going forward. He doesn't look like the monster I thought he might be after Kambosos II. You see Stevenson jumped in the ring and his eyes lit up with this outcome. He said Loma won, even though in the pre fight, he said his $ was on Devin. All the competition saw chinks in the armour of the undisputed.
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Like you said, I thought Loma had Haney set up for the lead straight left at will after about rd 7. Completely figured him out by then….. And Haney knew it….
 
JAXCUSE said:
Like you said, I thought Loma had Haney set up for the lead straight left at will after about rd 7. Completely figured him out by then….. And Haney knew it….
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Yeah I felt really bad for him when he was asking his dad for an answer for that. That led me to my rant of how I think Teo’s dad isn’t doing him any favors, and now I wonder if Haneys dad can get the max out of him. The dad thing is something I’ve been watching closely with these youngsters. Fully aware of Lomas dad maxing him out and dads in boxing history doing very well for their sons as well.
 
JAXCUSE said:
This is why boxing is my favorite sport - best fighting the best. Happens so rarely these days due to politics of the sport. I was really looking forward to this one. Loved the elite skill level and nuances. Davis/Garcia was “bread and circuses” for the masses and media. This was for the purists. And the differences were marked IMO….

I scored it 115-113 for Loma. Almost every rd (save 10th and 11th) were razor close. No real problem going the other way (even though the punch stats and effective, “eye catching” aggression slightly favored the Ukrainian). Surprised the official decision wasn’t split. Dave Moretti (one of the judges) scored the 10th for Haney (which was ridiculous). Thought Loma made a mistake by not closing harder in the 12th. Haney looked defeated (mentally) at the end of the 11th. In fact, thought Haney looked surprised that his hand was raised after the verdict. Body language - fighter’s (in their heart) know when they win (and don’t).

As identified, story of the fight was Haney’s size and jab/length vs Loma’s footwork and ability to create a favorable pocket. I thought Loma couldn’t waste too many early rds “processing” (like he did against Teo Lopez). And he didn’t (at least as much as he has in the past). I was surprised at Haney’s early aggression and body work (in retrospect, potentially won him the necessary early stanzas and the fight). Unfortunately, Haney isn’t a big puncher (so not as effective at slowing the much smaller Vasily as Haney’s braintrust might have hoped). I thought Loma (by rd 4-5) neutralized Devon’s jab and found his range with a lead left. Haney couldn’t escape the punch during the middle/late rds because Loma maneuvered him straight back into it. Again, a pleasure to watch this level of craft….

I doubt Loma (at his age, size differential and amateur “wear on the tread”) can muster another supreme, elite effort like this. I thought it would take a SRL-MMH or Duran-Davey Moore/Barkley kind of effort to win this. Older, smaller great fighter pulling out that one last elite performance to overcome the younger, bigger, stronger kid. Hope he retires (but probably won’t). Haney is a promotional free agent now (end of TR contract). Probably goes up to 140 or beyond (has the frame for it, but not sure the power). If he signs with PBC, we might get Haney/Tank. If he re-signs with Bob, we could get a rematch, winner of Taylor/Teo or Shakur. All great options for this fight fan….

Boxing isn’t dead (yet). Allot of Spence/Crawford chatter for late summer and Monster-Fulton is an excellent matchup. Not sure what happened to Fury/Usyk, but hopeful we get something unified for the Heavies in the future. Canelo will retire soon and open up the LtHeavies (Beterbiev-Bivol) and Middles (Benevidez, Charlo’s, Tszyu, etc). Looking forward to it…..
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Totally agree that the 10th was clearly Loma's round. What was Moretti thinking? (Or was he?)
 
ssbriefcase said:
Yeah I felt really bad for him when he was asking his dad for an answer for that. That led me to my rant of how I think Teo’s dad isn’t doing him any favors, and now I wonder if Haneys dad can get the max out of him. The dad thing is something I’ve been watching closely with these youngsters. Fully aware of Lomas dad maxing him out and dads in boxing history doing very well for their sons as well.
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I remember Jim Lampley saying that Dad/trainer-managers tend to keep their kids in the ring too long, soaking up punishment, not wanting to admit they were losing. It seemed counter-intuitive to me. What have you guys observed?
 
SWC75 said:
not wanting to admit they were losing
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Exactly, last night Haney's dad telling him he was winning, it might've ended up that way but that was after Loma's best round. The dads with the son can do no wrong is a problem imo. Teo's dad is worse than that. Now Loma's dad, you don't hear from and I've never got the sense he's anything like those other guys, just putting his son through extremely grueling workouts and thinking outside the box training regiment.
 
SWC75 said:
Totally agree that the 10th was clearly Loma's round. What was Moretti thinking? (Or was he?)
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Moretti worked some of Larry Holmes’ Title Defenses
Retirement long overdue….
I’ve always wondered why the same characters (Moretti, Byrd, etc) always judge the big fights in Vegas…. Then again, I guess I know the answer….
I’d like to see more world class ex-fighters/ex-champs in the judging business…
 
SWC75 said:
I remember Jim Lampley saying that Dad/trainer-managers tend to keep their kids in the ring too long, soaking up punishment, not wanting to admit they were losing. It seemed counter-intuitive to me. What have you guys observed?
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Other than Loma’s old man (who also ran the Ukrainian National Amateur Program for many years) and Floyd Senior (who was a pretty good world class fighter himself), I cannot recall any father-son trainer/boxer relationship that was wildly successful (even Floyd fired Dad after a bit). Roy Senior was pretty effective for RJJ (until he wasn’t later in the career - I believe he was the target of Lampley’s criticism). Shawn Porter’s old man was pretty successful as well (until the last fight - when he publicly criticized Shawn’s prep and effort).

IMO, most of these fathers “ride their kids’ supremely gifted and talented coat tails.” Living vicariously thru them. Hard being old and unable to do it yourself. Most fighters change trainers (at one time or another) during their careers. They have to if they desire to get better and learn new methods, techniques, strategies, etc. I can’t think of too many of these fathers that train/manage many other elite level fighters (other than their sons). Floyd Senior an exception (became a sought after pro trainer). Same with Roger the uncle (RIP)….

A direct answer to your question - I generally agree with Lamps here. And why I don’t think fathers should train their elite level sons.

That’s just my opinion….
 
I was doing various chores in and around the house and decided to put on the ESPN and DAZN fights, although I didn't bother trying to score them.

Nick Ball, 5-2, 17-10 (10KOs), the #11 featherweight, per Boxrec took on 5-8 Ludumo Lamati, 21-0 (11), the #33 feather, (indicating that the quality of his opposition was lesser). Lamati had an obvious size advantage, although Ball was very muscular (Lamati wasn't bad in that respect). But Lamati was totally unable to take advantage of his height and reach. Ball just marched in and clobbered his with short punches, in combination, treating Lamati like the heavy bag for 12 rounds. The ref finally stopped it in the 12th round. Lamati's corner had talked about quitting after 11 and they made the wrong decision. Lamati collapsed in the ring and had to be taken out on a stretcher and sent to the hospital. There have been no updates as of this writing, 5 hours later. You come into the ring undefeated and full of dreams and you leave and on a stretcher.

Mick Conlan of Belfast (5-8, 18-1, 9-1 #19) took on the new IBF featherweight champ, Luis Alberto Lopez (5-4, 27-2, 15, #4), who beat Josh Warrington for the title in Leeds on 12/10 and now beat Conlan in Belfast with a 5th round KO. Lopez has a strange style, throwing his punches from the hips. He loves looping right hands and uppercuts. You would think that would leave his wide open to counters but Conlan for some reason, adopted a left-handed style which left his fists too far away to stop Lopez's attack. Lopez came into the ring looking supremely confident and fought with a big smile on his face. Conlan had an arena full of singing supporters but he seemed tense, feeling the pressure to come through for his fans. It ended when Mick ducked into an uppercut and was down on the canvas for several minutes. But he was able to get up intime to congratulate Lopez on his victory and he looked as if the pressure had been released, even if it wasn't with the result everyone wanted.

Over on DAZN was still another featherweight bout, as Leigh Wood, (5-7 26-3, 10-2 #6) who lost the WBA title to Maurico Lara (listed at 5-7 but seemed like the smaller man, 26-2-1, 19-1 #2) on a left hook in the 7th round of a fight Wood had been winning on 2/18/23. He totally dominated this fight, using excellent footwork and a good jab to maintain his distance. He floored Lara in the second round, (a combination of stepping on his foot and hitting him with a punch). Lara did very little after that and lost on two cards 118-109 and 116-111 on the other. 118-109 seemed more accurate.

The WBC champion is Rey Vargas and the WBO champion is Robeisy Ramirez. I don't know how they'd do to Lopez and Wood because their opposition today was rather inept. I had to wonder fi any of them might someday be facing Naoya Inoue. I don't think it would be a pleasant afternoon.
 
Max Kellerman was just asked what's Naoya Inoue next move if he gets by Stephen Fulton?

Fri, 6/2 - Max on Boxing (6/2/23) - Live Stream - Watch ESPN

He suggests at 23:15 a catchweight fight between Inoue and Vasyl Lomachenko, whom he described as "essentially a junior lightweight". That would be a summit meeting of talents. Loma is 5-7 with a 65 1/2 inch reach. "The Monster" is 5-5 with a 67 1/2 inch reach. Having just seen Loma lose a controversial decision to Devin Haney, I'd have to think that this would be Inoue finally biting off more than he could chew. But I remember than Manny Pacquiao's first title was the WBC flyweight title in 1999 and Manny is 5-5 1/2 with a 67 inch reach.
 
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Taking in some of the 'manly art' with a lull in the playoffs and a lull in the Mets playing like a major league team.

The first bout was a couple of flies on DAZN 'Sunny' Edwards, a Willie Pep wannabe, (IBF champ, #2 Boxrec, 19-0 with 4KOs), took on Andres Campos (#53, 15-0 with 4KOs). Edwards was good at avoiding punishment in the open ring and landed some good counter-shots, none of which seemed to bother Campos, who advanced forward the whole fight. Edwards seemed desirous of proving he was a tough guy and took to hanging on the ropes and exchanging with Campos. He got the better of this early on but Campos was clearly the stronger man and the harder puncher. He found he could land some upper-cuts and Edwards went back to floating like a butterfly and stinging like one. But it piled up the points and he was safely ahead going into the 12th round, so he went back to fighting along the rope and thereby surrendered the final round to Campos. I had it 8 rounds for Edwards, 4 for Campos, (116-112). All three judges had it 9-3, (117-111).

Later, on the undercard of the Munguia-Dereuyanchenko an up and coming fly, Ricardo Sandoval, (#14, 21-2 with 16KO, apparently no relation to Richard Sandoval from the early 80's), took on a tough but unknown Mexican named Rocco Santomauro (#43, 22-1, 6-1, against a bunch of other unknowns). The two guys went at each other for three minutes a round but Sandoval was a bit quicker and more active. It looked like he hurt Rocco with a body shot in the third but he focused on Rocco's head after that and was his least vulnerable spot. Rocco got in some good counter-punches but never got Ricardo in any trouble. In a 10 round bout, I gave Sandoval 7 rounds with two even, (99-94). The judges had it 98-92 and 96-94, (x 2).

Shane Mosley Jr, (#21 super middle, 19-4, 10KO) got in a slugfest with D'Mitrius Ballard, (unranked due to inactivity middle 21-1-1, 13-1). Neither man was much on defense and they took turned belaboring each other, Mosley mostly to the head, Ballard mostly to the body. A shot to Ballard's temple in the 6th greatly reduced his enthusiasm and Mosley was all over him until the ref stopped it in the 7th.

ESPN put on a fight between Xander Zayas, a talented young super welter, (#50 15-0, 10KO), who almost took out Ronald Cruz, ($200 18-2-1, 12KO) with his first punch. The rest of the fight was boring as Zayas was much the better fighter but couldn't put his man away. He has a nice jab and can throw combinations to the head and the body but he seemed to lack the instinct to finish his man off.

The fight of the night - and the year - featured Jaime Munguia, he of the 41-0 record with 33 knockouts, (ranked #5 among the super-middles) and Serge Derevyanchenko, (let's call him 'Serge'), whose pro record of 14-4 with 10 knockouts is deceiving, as his #8 ranking shows. He's fought a lot of top guys and has been on the short end of some questionable scoring. Serge came out like a pit bull and was throwing haymakers at Jaime from the opening bell. To Jaime's credit, he never went down but he certainly received more punishment than Serge did, especially in the 5th round where it looked like Serge might be on the verge of knocking Jaime out. But Jaime survived and got his combinations going. It was a classic example of the most difficult fight to score: one man was landing more punches, the other the harder punches. Then Jaime scored a knockdown in the 12th round. He was unable to close it out so it went to the judges who gave it to Jaime 115-112 and 114-113 and 114-113. Ironically, Jaime's camp had asked for this to be changed to a 10 round fight but Serge refused. If he'd agreed, he would have won.

Josh Taylor was taller and had a reach advantage over Teofimo Lopez but Lopez had the other advantages. He had faster hands, hit harder featured much more movement. After solving the reach problems he won round after round before taking the last round off. I had it 117-111, as did Max Kellerman and one judge. Two judges called it closer, 115-113. How you could give Taylor 5 rounds, I don't know. A lot of former lightweights will be congregating in the Junior Welter division in the near future.
 
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Was really happy for Teo to bounce back in a big way. I had doubts going into the fight after watching that weird interview that his dad interrupted. This time I agree with the dad, he was just trying to look out for Teo who was saying crazy things. Due to this I didn't know if he'd be mentally ready for a tall order like Taylor.

I've always been perplexed on how Taylor is as good as he is with that body? I also was reminded by Max Kellerman saying Teo always shines brightest on the biggest stage. He did just that, and dominated Taylor. Teo showed a lot of versatility in this one. I believe it was the 2nd round or so, when he went back to his corner sat on the stool and told his dad, "I got him", as he was saying he figured him out. He did indeed, and I think it's good for boxing. The 115-113 score was absurd.
 
The greatest fight of our greatest night. Soria's previous opponents had been carried from the ring on stretchers but Leon didn't care. He'd looked awkward and unschooled in his previous fights but in this one he was super-aggressive and never let Soria get the distance he needed for his bombs. As often happens, when knockout artists are put on the defensive, weaknesses appear and Leon just kept sending those overhand rights down the tube to the same spot and Soria, who could dish it out, couldn't take it.

 
Tuned into the Edgar Berlanga- Jason Quigley fight on DAZN a bit late, (missed the first two rounds) and so didn't try to score it. Berlanga went the distance for the fifth straight fight after 16 one round knockouts in a row. What a weird record. He looked better than I've seen him in other fights, better footwork and cutting off the ring better. Quigley was on his hose much of the fight, trying to win it with jabs and counter-punches. He got Berlanga's attention with a few of them but never knocked him backward as Berlanga did to Quigley a number of times. He also knocked him down four times, twice in the 12th round. It was itneresting listenign to the two color men, who disagreed on what what was going on. One was clearly pro-Quigley and lauded him throughout the fight. The other was more realistically praising Berlanga.

Boxrec has Berlanga ranked #14 in the world among the super middles. Quigley, the smaller man, (despite their both being listed at 6-1 by Boxrec), was moving up from the middles, where he clearly belongs. He was #27 there. It may be time to match Berlanga with a top 10 guy. meanwhile they announced that Canelo Alvarez is going to fight one of the Charlos. It's about time. Things are heating up.
 
I watched the last two fights of the ESPN card tonight.

In the first 19-year-old Abdullah Mason, (8-0, 7KO, #91 per Boxrec) still another lightweight talent, devastated #791 Alex De Olivera (20-4, 14-2) in two rounds. De Olivera just caved in in the second round, staggering sideways. But then he's #791. Are there that many lightweights in world?
Still it didn't prevent one of the color guys from describing Mason as "a left-handed Floyd Mayweather, (there are a lot of Floyd Mayweathers in boxing these days, even Floyd Mayweather). Mason is 5-9 with a 74 inch reach so he could grow beyond the lightweights.

The came the main event, Jared "The Real Big Baby" Anderson, (If Jarrell "Big Baby Miller can get and stay clean, that fight's got to be made) vs. veteran trial horse Charles Martin. Anderson is listed as 6-4 with a 78 inch reach, (I've also seen him listed at 240 pounds). He came in with a perfect record of 4-0 with 14 knockouts, having won every round in every fight. But his amateur record was only 23-5 in 24 years. None of his pro opponents had been highly ranked. Nonetheless, he was being hyped as "the future of the heavyweight division". He came in ranked #32 by Boxrec.

Charles Martin,14 years older at age 37, came in ranked #44, (29-3-1, 26-2). He was listed as 6-5 with an 80 inch reach but as soon as they were in the ring together, it became apparent that Martin was significantly taller than Anderson, although their stances may have contributed to that impression. His most noted opponents had ben Anthony Joshua, who knocked him out in 2 rounds in 2016 and Luis Ortiz, who finished him in 6 on New Year's Day 2022. Would Big Baby look as or more impressive than that?

The answer was "No". Anderson had a great deal of trouble with martin's reach and his counter-punches. When Martin decided in the middle of the fight to stand his ground and exchange punches with Anderson, he came out much the better of it, staggering Anderson multiple time. He was unable to score a knock-out because Anderson was smart enough to clinch and then spend the next couple of round moving and stick to score points but avoiding exchanges. He reminded me a bit of Joshua in the second Ruiz fight and the fifth round looked like the first Ruiz fight.

Martin's problem is that he didn't follow up. He retreated, looking for the counter punch, most of the fight. Anderson was able to use his jab to pile up the points. He even scored a knockdown in third round, although Martin claimed that he slipped on a logo in the ring, which many have bene true. He was never in significant trouble in the fight. They didn't flash the final punch count standings but Anderson was well ahead throughout the fight. He won the judges 98-91, 99-90 and 99-90. I was more generous to Martin, giving him the first and last rounds as he landed the most significant punch of each near the end, 97-92 for Anderson.

The panel at the end was asked if Anderson is ready for the top fighters. They said maybe the bottom of the top ten. But they want Anderson to get another year of learning, especially on defense, before he's ready for the top guys. They said he moves backwards to avoid punches, rather than laterally and the other guy can always find you if you go backwards.
 
SWC75 said:
I watched the last two fights of the ESPN card tonight.

In the first 19-year-old Abdullah Mason, (8-0, 7KO, #91 per Boxrec) still another lightweight talent, devastated #791 Alex De Olivera (20-4, 14-2) in two rounds. De Olivera just caved in in the second round, staggering sideways. But then he's #791. Are there that many lightweights in world?
Still it didn't prevent one of the color guys from describing Mason as "a left-handed Floyd Mayweather, (there are a lot of Floyd Mayweathers in boxing these days, even Floyd Mayweather). Mason is 5-9 with a 74 inch reach so he could grow beyond the lightweights.

The came the main event, Jared "The Real Big Baby" Anderson, (If Jarrell "Big Baby Miller can get and stay clean, that fight's got to be made) vs. veteran trial horse Charles Martin. Anderson is listed as 6-4 with a 78 inch reach, (I've also seen him listed at 240 pounds). He came in with a perfect record of 4-0 with 14 knockouts, having won every round in every fight. But his amateur record was only 23-5 in 24 years. None of his pro opponents had been highly ranked. Nonetheless, he was being hyped as "the future of the heavyweight division". He came in ranked #32 by Boxrec.

Charles Martin,14 years older at age 37, came in ranked #44, (29-3-1, 26-2). He was listed as 6-5 with an 80 inch reach but as soon as they were in the ring together, it became apparent that Martin was significantly taller than Anderson, although their stances may have contributed to that impression. His most noted opponents had ben Anthony Joshua, who knocked him out in 2 rounds in 2016 and Luis Ortiz, who finished him in 6 on New Year's Day 2022. Would Big Baby look as or more impressive than that?

The answer was "No". Anderson had a great deal of trouble with martin's reach and his counter-punches. When Martin decided in the middle of the fight to stand his ground and exchange punches with Anderson, he came out much the better of it, staggering Anderson multiple time. He was unable to score a knock-out because Anderson was smart enough to clinch and then spend the next couple of round moving and stick to score points but avoiding exchanges. He reminded me a bit of Joshua in the second Ruiz fight and the fifth round looked like the first Ruiz fight.

Martin's problem is that he didn't follow up. He retreated, looking for the counter punch, most of the fight. Anderson was able to use his jab to pile up the points. He even scored a knockdown in third round, although Martin claimed that he slipped on a logo in the ring, which many have bene true. He was never in significant trouble in the fight. They didn't flash the final punch count standings but Anderson was well ahead throughout the fight. He won the judges 98-91, 99-90 and 99-90. I was more generous to Martin, giving him the first and last rounds as he landed the most significant punch of each near the end, 97-92 for Anderson.

The panel at the end was asked if Anderson is ready for the top fighters. They said maybe the bottom of the top ten. But they want Anderson to get another year of learning, especially on defense, before he's ready for the top guys. They said he moves backwards to avoid punches, rather than laterally and the other guy can always find you if you go backwards.
Expand...
Agree with all of the above. Yeah this was the fight I wanted to see if Anderson was truly ready for the big fights, and I had my doubts as I've watched all his fights, I don't see anything special. This fight reinforced my belief that he's not ready. He's lucky to get by Martin, like you alluded to, his moving not only back, but straight back is his issue and in that division will be your doom. I'm still going to look for some newer and younger blood in the US heavy division, for the next great one.
 
www.espn.com

'Crafty' Anderson takes 10 rounds to defeat Martin

Jared Anderson, arguably boxing's most promising young heavyweight, went the distance for the first time in his career with a 10-round unanimous decision victory over former titleholder Charles Martin on Saturday night in Toledo, Ohio.
www.espn.com www.espn.com

I decided to look at Martin's fights vs. Joshua an Ortiz for comparison.

Joshua looked taller than Martin, who made Anderson look small. The right hand was similar to the one Anderson landed to put Martin down but was shorter and more direct. I'm not sure the ref should have stopped this one but I don't think it would have changed the result if he hadn't.



Martin showed against Ortiz why Anderson was hesitant to just come right in and mix it up with him. Ortiz is still a dangerous dude at 44. I've never seen a fighter who couldn't get up because the ropes had flipped and trapped his hand. The ref was right to give Martin another shot- until he'd taken too many shots.

TKO Round 6//Luis Ortiz vs. Charles Martin//Highlights

Here's the Anderson fight:

Jared Anderson vs Charles Martin Highlights.

Anderson may not be ready yet but martin is under-rated, better than a lot of guys I've seen fighting for the title in recent years.
 
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