CJ at the 2, if Roberson is what some think?

[Sgt Cuse]

A 6-8, 2-G with no right hand dribbling ability. Yeah, I'm going to say that this likely won't ever happen.

Plus, why take a player out of his current position when he is an All-American caliber player there?

The idea behind moving CJ out of position is to improve the team as a whole. That's why you investigate it. Of course if he can't do it, it won't work. But last year CJ had an excellent shooting percentage. And he has improved every year.

If CJ is a much better sg option than what we have, while Roberson is only slightly worse than CJ at forward, the whole team improves if a switch is made.

It's not like its never been done before. DC moved from forward to center to accomodate Owens.

 

[Gabjon]

I have not read through this thread but playing your best player out of position is not a good idea!

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[MCC]

I understand it's a long shot. It appears I fear our current sg situation more than most. That's why I'm hoping JB investigates this posibility.

Yes, the old CJ was good at the sneaky putbacks and positioning. But we don't need or want CJ to fall back into that role. That is a role that by all accounts is ideally suited for Roberson. We need a solid first option. Moving CJ to sg could be the impetus to installing the new mindset that will be needed from CJ.

The added value would come from this:
1. Roberson would get floor time. He according to many here is a real talent.
2. CJ would assume the role of option number 1, the prime scorer. He has the best shooting percentage and as a senior has earned the right. It would take him away from his comfort zone of sneaky points and thrust him into a starring role. He is our best candidate for stardom.
3. It would decrease the reliance on the other current, motley sg options. None of those guys seem ready.

Of course the downside is, it might not work. But if CJ could play the 2, this team could be awesome.
I would rather have CJ being option 1 with Roberson getting the sneaky putbacks, than Cooney launching air balls and CJ cleaning up the mess.

Keeping CJ in position to get the putbacks and O boards doesn't mean he also can't be option #1. Get him open off curls, and along the baseline, maybe even post him. Have him spot up at the 3 on breaks when it makes sense, and get him there off picks in halfcourt. But he can't take every shot, and when others shoot (and inevitably miss roughly 50% of the time) I want my best O rebounder and sneaky putback-er in position. Roberson may be able to do this as well but I bet he doesn't do it as well as CJ. I want my best scorer, best rebounder, and one of my better FT shooters in position to take as many high percentage shots as possible and drawing fouls.

I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[orangefan13]

There is little to no difference between the 2 and the 3 in cuses system on offense in the halfcourt. Players skills make it different.
Rautins played big minutes of 2008-2009 at the three.
Harris played the year before at the 2.
Not to say SF's get stuck in the corner but Nichols was a SF who played most of his senior season offensively up top. KJO spent the majority of his minutes at syracuse up top. Southerland loved to shoot up top as a forward.

CJ has played offensively all over the court, except the right side up top.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Well, the minute I saw Grant take it to NOVA during James' absence last year, I knew he'd be a beast this season down low. CJ, has a chance to be one of our top 10 all-time four-year forwards (Hak-like career).

I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 better forwards who were 4 year guys. CJ is already at the edge of top 10 and will probably end up top 5 by the time he's done.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

I think you'd be hard pressed to name 10 better forwards who were 4 year guys. CJ is already at the edge of top 10 and will probably end up top 5 by the time he's done.

Matt, I originally typed top 5 but a few names popped in my head, so I played it safe. Definitely DC, JW and Hak. Then Dave Johnson quickly came to mind (but he is a 3/2) Do we count Moten as a 3 or 2? If a 3, he's surely ahead of CJ. DNichols but I think CJ passes him. Shump? I think Shump and CJ are neck and neck but if CJ really leads us this year, he passes him. Same with guys like Rick Jackson and Raf Addison - I think CJ passes them with a 20/9 season and an E8. CJ really could sneak into that 4-8 slot depending on what he does.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I count Moten as a guard, although he was clearly a SF when he started. I put CJ ahead of Nichols because although he hasn't had a season (yet) to match DNich's senior year, he has already made a Final Four. I would put Shump ahead of CJ at this point, but with the year we expect, CJ will likely move past him, too.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

mmmmm. Best rebounder on the perimeter.

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[Cusefan0307]

If you have Nichols ahead of cj you should have your head examined. His first two years were both worse than cooneys freshmen year, and he had virtually no postseason success.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No disrespect to anyone on my last post,I just think it is just funny that everyone thinks of Nichols as a great player now. People think Cooney was frustrating last year, but Nichols was worse than that for two years and besides gmacs bet run, his teams accomplished nothing. He had one good year, but he's nowhere near the all around player cj is.

 

[AlaskaSU]

The possible benefit of a switch depends on production from the two. hawaii will provide the answer. We all want TC to improve but this team has so much potential that we cannot afford on the job training for TC. MG is not a scorer. BJ might be an option but would JB trust him?

 

[orangefan13]

No disrespect to anyone on my last post,I just think it is just funny that everyone thinks of Nichols as a great player now. People think Cooney was frustrating last year, but Nichols was worse than that for two years and besides gmacs bet run, his teams accomplished nothing. He had one good year, but he's nowhere near the all around player cj is.

Nichols became a great player, you can't take that away from him. He averaged 19 ppg as a senior while shooting 41 percent from beyond the arc. 1.5 assists per game, A block over a steal a game. He Played solid man up defense on top of that, and was a really solid ball handler for a forward. Only 5.5 rebounds but still. 13 points for a jr is solid as well. He shot off the dribble, which helped make him elite. He also was a canidate for BE player of the year, BE first team, honorable mention for the all american team, and brought serious offensive leadership.
As a college player Nichols became a great player as a senior. I think Devendorf-like with above average defense in in some reguards.

I see your point and agree CJs upside is better, but got to give credit where it is due, Nichols had a senior season that was elite not just above average for college ball.

 

[orangefan13]

If
1.Gbinije doesn't develop a shot from outside/midrange off the dribble, more then 1-2 times a game,
or
2. Cooney and Gbinije don't start makeing 3's under defenisve pressure,
then JB will try to find another 2g .

imo, The only way JB doesn't is the team has enough with CJ, Grant and Ennis as scorers(and they do) . Still JB will look for someone who can shoot and score off a bounce and midrange at the two. In college ball your 4th scorer on the court can be only a spot up shooter, it worked well at the big east level. However, against a final four caliber team, it can come down to cost you.

Still I think Fair, Grant and Ennis could be good enough to beat the elite final four teams, its to early to tell.

 

[IthacaMatt]

If
1.Gbinije doesn't develop a shot from outside/midrange off the dribble, more then 1-2 times a game,
or
2. Cooney and Gbinije don't start makeing 3's under defenisve pressure,
then JB will try to find another 2g .

Still I think Fair, Grant and Ennis could be good enough to beat the elite final four teams, its to early to tell.

If that happens, that is the BJ Johnson scenario. He could be this year's wild card. He can make outside shots. Whether he can do it under pressure from college defenders, we don't know yet. But he looked very promising in Canada. I was a doubter at first, but I think he makes the rotation this year.

 

[thebigeast44]

Have not read the whole thread but there is no chance CJ plays the 2 - simple as that.

 

[Orangeyes]

Syracuse basketball forward C.J. Fair still nursing his sore lower leg (for precautionary purposes)

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

A 6-8, 2-G with no right hand dribbling ability. Yeah, I'm going to say that this likely won't ever happen.

Plus, why take a player out of his current position when he is an All-American caliber player there?

Plus, neither he nor JB are ever going to risk his NBA SF potential by doing this. Maybe in the last OT of a 6OT game when everyone else has fouled out, but that never happens.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Plus, neither he nor JB are ever going to risk his NBA SF potential by doing this. Maybe in the last OT of a 6OT game when everyone else has fouled out, but that never happens.

If CJ was able to demonstrate he could play the 2 in college it would in no way diminish his appeal to the NBA. It would increase it.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

If you have Nichols ahead of cj you should have your head examined. His first two years were both worse than cooneys freshmen year, and he had virtually no postseason success.

The threads/posts were about "four year players" and Nichols had a fantastic senior year that pushes his career ranking ahead of CJ's career. CJ has yet to have the chance to skew the results like Nichols did but if he has season that most believe he will , he'll fly by DN by a wide margin. I think a 2nd team AA type season is coming and if we get another E8 run, CJ will go down as an all time forward...

That said, while DN struggled his first two years, he a pretty good junior year and his senior year was terrific. He was right there for POY on much, much, less talented team. Nichols, in my opinion, is undervalued by many in our fan base. That's why his name was just thrown in the discussion.

 

[TheRoyalIveyFund]

Have not read the whole thread but there is no chance CJ plays the 2 - simple as that.

It's it likely? I'm not sure. The assumption of the thread was subpar 2G and potential rebounding/defensive force of Roberson coming to fruition.

However, to say there's not a chance is plain inaccurate. In the thread, you would've read the below from last year and this year, there's even more uncertainty at 2.

SU coach Jim Boeheim has said he will employ C.J. Fair and James Southerland at the top of the Orange 2-3 zone this season.

Coach, he always tells me ‘Just be ready to play the 2 position,’¤” Fair said

 

[AlaskaSU]

If CJ was able to demonstrate he could play the 2 in college it would in no way diminish his appeal to the NBA. It would increase it.

CJ did not make Chad Ford's current mock draft. The NBA is only interested in freak athletes and CJ might have lost 1/2 a step when he tore up his knee in HS. The NBA also looks for players that create a mismatch.
For the record, I do not think that it is likely that CJ will play the 2, but I am all for giving it a try during OOC, depending on the Hawaii outcome. It would put our five best players on the floor. Teams like Duke, the Ville and Kentucky will require our best.

 

[thebigeast44]

It's it likely? I'm not sure. The assumption of the thread was subpar 2G and potential rebounding/defensive force of Roberson coming to fruition.

However, to say there's not a chance is plain inaccurate. In the thread, you would've read the below from last year and this year, there's even more uncertainty at 2.

SU coach Jim Boeheim has said he will employ C.J. Fair and James Southerland at the top of the Orange 2-3 zone this season.

Coach, he always tells me ‘Just be ready to play the 2 position,’¤” Fair said

When JB comes out and says he wants CJ to be ready to play at the two, it will be the first time he says that. And he won't say it because it will never happen. The premise of this thread that we may have to play him there because it would be better to have Roberson playing than a subpar 2 on the floor is not going to happen. We have 2 third year players who will man the slot - I guarantee you JB has not thought to himself - hmmm...let's put a frosh in at forward and move CJ to the 2 instead of having the 2 3rd year guys I recruited play the position. Roberson will be playing behind CJ and Grant at the forward positions - all 3 will be playing there and none of them will ever play the 2. If it ever happens, then you can come back and point it out that I and a number of others on this thread were wrong. Let's Go Orange!

 

[Quazzum69]

It would put our five best players on the floor. Teams like Duke, the Ville and Kentucky will require our best.

Every team has a weak spot, whether it is at a specific position, lack of ball-handlers, lack of depth, undersized - no team is perfect, even the Olympic team had flaws. Just because we do not have an All-American shooting guard does not mean JB will have to move the best forward (who is more power forward than shooting guard) to compensate. Championship-caliber teams are not stocked with a roster full of all-stars. All you need is two or three great players (which we have) and some other solid players who do certain things really well (which we also have).

Cooney, BJ, Patterson and Gbinije may be weak in comparison to Ennis, Grant and Fair, but they are in no way "weak" players. I guarantee any coach in the ACC would trade rosters with Syracuse and take the weakness at SG for ridiculous depth and size.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

When JB comes out and says he wants CJ to be ready to play at the two, it will be the first time he says that. And he won't say it because it will never happen. The premise of this thread that we may have to play him there because it would be better to have Roberson playing than a subpar 2 on the floor is not going to happen. We have 2 third year players who will man the slot - I guarantee you JB has not thought to himself - hmmm...let's put a frosh in at forward and move CJ to the 2 instead of having the 2 3rd year guys I recruited play the position. Roberson will be playing behind CJ and Grant at the forward positions - all 3 will be playing there and none of them will ever play the 2. If it ever happens, then you can come back and point it out that I and a number of others on this thread were wrong. Let's Go Orange!

First off, there is this annoying trend that combines laziness and arrogance where people jump into a thread saying "Have not read the whole thread but..." Why don't you just read the whole thread first, would it kill ya.

But for those of you with the attention span of a knat, please read Royal's post #56 and the link to the Donna Ditota article. In it she states "SU coach Jim Boeheim has said he will employ C.J. Fair and James Southerland at the top of the 2-3 zone". And also included in the article is this quote from CJ "Coach, he always tells me 'Just be ready to play the 2 position". So, what do you think, they're lying?

And are you kidding me with the JB has not thought about it stuff? He thought about it last year. So now, after we lose BT and MG puts up an 0-for out in Estonia and Cooney shows nothing new in Canada, he should shelve those concerns? If we can figure out a way to have Royal inform JB of this possibility maybe he can let JB know about Roberson putting up those 51 big ones too. I just think we should let JB know about that too.

 

[thebigeast44]

First off, there is this annoying trend that combines laziness and arrogance where people jump into a thread saying "Have not read the whole thread but..." Why don't you just read the whole thread first, would it kill ya.

But for those of you with the attention span of a knat, please read Royal's post #56 and the link to the Donna Ditota article. In it she states "SU coach Jim Boeheim has said he will employ C.J. Fair and James Southerland at the top of the 2-3 zone". And also included in the article is this quote from CJ "Coach, he always tells me 'Just be ready to play the 2 position". So, what do you think, they're lying?

And are you kidding me with the JB has not thought about it stuff? He thought about it last year. So now, after we lose BT and MG puts up an 0-for out in Estonia and Cooney shows nothing new in Canada, he should shelve those concerns? If we can figure out a way to have Royal inform JB of this possibility maybe he can let JB know about Roberson putting up those 51 big ones too. I just think we should let JB know about that too.

Before I replied, I went back and read the whole thread. There is no quote from JB stating he wants CJ to be prepared to play at the 2. CJ is not JB and if JB ever insinuates he would consider playing CJ there, he would only do so to light a fire under the 2 guards. I'm 99.999% certain that JB has no intention to ever play CJ at the 2. If you want to hold onto that .001% chance, than you're entirely welcome to.

And I don't blame people for not reading this whole thread. It's a crazy idea IMHO (as one poster stated, it's silly season right now) and the likelihood of it happening is so remote that most people probably figure it's not worth time reading about or discussing. You and some others feel differently. And you're entitled to your opinion of course. But expect to be challenged on it.

Ultimately, I only care about the success of the team. If your idea comes to fruition and the team succeeds, fantastic. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. But I think we'll have a very nice season with CJ playing his normal position and the 2 guards playing theirs. LGO!