Coleman article

Discussion in 'Syracuse Basketball Board' started by Upstate, May 3, 2012.

  1. Upstate

    Upstate Hall of Fame

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  2. bballbeadle

    bballbeadle All Conference

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    Upstate, who is the older guy dancing on the right?
  3. JackBauer44

    JackBauer44 Starter

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    That would be our very own Floyd Little!
  4. SBU72

    SBU72 Starter

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  5. RF2044

    RF2044 Living Legend

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    I only see two possibilities with the frontcourt. The most likely one is Coleman starting in the pivot, alongside Rak and CJ. I just have a tough time envisioning Coleman not starting. And if Rak makes the sophomore jump that many are looking for, he'll be much improved.

    Another possibility--and I think we'll actually see lots of this type of lineup throughout games--is one big, either Rak or Coleman, playing alongside CJ and Southerland.

    With Jerami and Baye in reserve [and probably Southerland, taking on the role of next year's super scoring sub], we'll go six deep up front. Quality depth by any barometer.
    IthacaMatt, MikeSU02 and dasher like this.
  6. reedny

    reedny All Conference

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    Exactly how I see it (and posted recently). I love the speed and balance of MCW, BT, JS, CJ and DC2. This rotation is not huge, but it brings transition points, defense and good inside and outside offense (assuming that DC2 does what I think he will do inside).
  7. pfister1

    pfister1 All Conference

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    I think the better transition lineup will be MCW, BT, JS, CJ and Rak. I think Rak will pleasantly surprise with his play this coming season. That said I think we'll see a fair amount of Rak at the 4 so that DC2 can play the 5. As RF notes JB will have a lot of real options in the frontcourt.
  8. Orangezoo

    Orangezoo Hall of Fame

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    i like that lineup too especially if james and cj can beco
    e better shotblockers and rak develops significantly. looking at the horizon next year, only uk has a possible dominant defensive center but they are missing the pieces otherwise. iu will be really good but they are not a defensive stalwart. if we are good enough defensively we can be top 5 and a contender.. the key word is "can". if coleman can be a beast inside the possibilities are endless.. lots of scoring options and good size. a lot of on paper similarities to 09-10 but more depth and arguably as much or more talent.
  9. reedny

    reedny All Conference

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    I agree, there is flexibility here. Rak can certainly play the 5, as we saw at Cinci, and that would make the lineup even faster. But Rak's skillset fits the 4 and that's where we'll need him. Since he's not bulky and has limited low post offense, he'll be the perfect compliment to DC2. Unfortunately, Rak had trouble adjusting to a complimentary role last year. But I think this is the year he adjusts and really helps us.

    Besides, we need Rak to guard the wing in our defense. Asking a 280 pound guy to run out there is not realistic. Better to have some beef (DC2) at C to keep opposing bigs out of the lane...this frees up Rak to rebound and block shots.
  10. jdubs30

    jdubs30 Hall of Fame

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    I like that DC2 wasn't promised the starting role; he has to work for it. I think he looks around and sees that there's quality big men besides him, so he'll have to work for his PT
  11. RF2044

    RF2044 Living Legend

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    Me too. And from everything that I'm hearing, DC2 is really busting his hump to try to improve his conditioning. That's a great sign--there's no substitute for work ethic.
  12. orangefan13

    orangefan13 Hall of Fame

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    Im not saying Rak won't develop into a solid pf but is there anyone here that will dissagree that this year he was a solid center but only a fill in at PF?? Rak was good enough to start at center for any team in the country (ignoring the studs ahead of him that is), At PF Rak may have only seen token minutes on alot of teams. Rak blocked well from a standstill, and rebounded well for a center in the zone. Those are good traits to have.

    Also I felt Keita had a better freshmen campaign then sophmore. As a sophmore he bodied up more and lost alot of his quick mobility. I would love to see him find that quick movement back and use it at the four. He might not be a great slider but he has great latteral and recovery movement reguardless.

    I think our best defensive lineup could be 1.MCW, 2.James, 3.CJ, 4.Keita 5.Rak on the floor together, because they bring the scrappyness a very underated skill, the reflexes, the height, and would be a trapping nightmare. Although Triche has a say to be in that lineup as well.
  13. Cusefaninvirginia

    Cusefaninvirginia Walk On

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    I strongly agree with your first point that Christmas looked a lot better at center than he did at the 4 last year. By the ncaa's, Roc looked pretty good at center, and that was him with practicing and playing at the 4 most of the year. If he was that good with limited experience at center, imagine how good he could be if he's actually able to spend time in practice at center before the season starts there. And since the center spot is the most critical on our team to anchor the defense, I really like the idea of Christmas getting a lot of time there. This might be why JB was just speculating that he thought Coleman might be able to play the 4 since he moves well for a big man, and he also added that we could really use his rebounding on the weak side. (Not to mention I like having Christmas' shot blocking skills at center.) If Coleman is able to lose some weight and improve his conditioning over the summer, this might be our best bet. it's good to hear that JB is at least open to the idea. If Coleman struggles to guard out to the 3 pt line though, which seems likely, then we might have to start christmas at the 4 again, which is not ideal, because based on how raw he looked at the 4 last year, it'll probably take him til his junior year before he really becomes an assett at that position. I think in that case, it's unfair to expect Coleman to be a dominant defender right away at center - it always takes bigs a little longer to develop, and that seems particularly true for SU players at center. And so if Christmas doesn't come back greatly improved at the 4, which he probably won't, and if Coleman takes a little time to learn to play center for JB, which is likely, then starting Christmas at the 4 and Coleman at the 5 might not be a great situation, at least early in the season. So i wouldn't be surprised to see Coleman starting at center, Christmas starting at the 4, but JB having Coleman on a little bit of a short leash like Christmas and Fab their 1st years, with Christmas moving over to spell Coleman at center and Southerland coming in to join Fair in the frontcourt. Coleman would come in and play enough to average maybe 15-20 minutes a game, with Christmas averaging closer to 30 split between the 4 and the 5, and with Keita filling in at center as needed.

    But I think your best defensive lineup problem won't work though, because having James play the 2 would kill us on offense since he doesn't have a great handle on the ball yet. (and besides, Triche is 6'4 and is a very solid defender already.) And I think having Keita and Rak on the floor at the same time would also kill us on offense. We'd need either Coleman on the floor with one of the two of them, or playing either Keita or Christmas with James and CJ also in the frontcourt.
  14. orangefan13

    orangefan13 Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough. I still think Keita deserves a shot at the four.
    He will be our most mobile big and its not even close. I think its kinda crazy to not consider it but we didn't last year either.
    I hope he works on his sliding and lateral movement in the offseason to hes blue in the face. Get back what he had his freshmen year. Yes he needs to put on some strength also, but his hustle made him special as a fresh.

    IMO In fabs case as a freshmen it wasn't lack of iq that sat him as a freshmen or his ability to run up and down the floor that made him sit. Thats what everyone heard about but IMO it was his recovery defense and movement in the halfcourt. People were beating him baseline and he wasn't recovering at all.

    Hopefully DC is more ready then that. But, I wouldn't be suprised to see him sit further back baseline and use his massive body to box out and push people backwards on rebounds. Reguardless hes so physical hes going to stand out. He won't be the blend in type. If DC moves good at the four it would be easier to mask him then as a center who doesn't recover baseline and is somewhat lacking shotblock abilities. It would keep Rak at the 5 where hes best.
    That would be the best case scenerio IMO.

    Sure we could throw our best scoring 5 players out there, but sometimes the chemistry just doesn't work. I think DC at center and Rak out of position at the four could possibly leave a weakspot in the zone despite both being monsters it just might not work on D. Uconn won it all two years ago with 21/2 solid scorers. Ville got to the final four last year with the same chemistry.

    Its not a stretch to think Fair, Southerland, and MCW could take over games together and take the pressure off of Raks post up game. Also James can have more efficient isolation then Triche or cooney. Its all about if the ball goes in or not.
  15. shermstheman

    shermstheman 2nd String

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    I just can't see DC2 at the 4. It took Rick awhile to be good there...and he was much smaller/slimmer than DC2. I just have a hard time seeing him sprint out to the corner and then get back for a rebound...too slow, too big. He's a natural 5 and Rak...at least for the NBA, seems a more natural 4...and he'd no doubt be better at getting out to the corner to defend- it'll be a big step for him (to be good at it) but it's seems more likely than DC2. I think Rak will sub for DC2 at the 5 and primarily play 4.
  16. arbitragegls

    arbitragegls All Conference

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    and I do not think one of the two best defenders is left off the defensive list. Triche has demonstrated being very solid on defense and I think that the "surprise" for some of you will be his offensive explosion this year. Triche will not defer this year, JB will let him shoot his way out of a slump if one occurs...lets not forget in JB's rotation, Triche is the SENIOR!
  17. Clev04

    Clev04 2nd String

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    I think he nailed it, although Coleman is a very good rebounder, he will not contest shots close to the rim. He does not play above the rim like Christmas does. We need that shot blocker in the middle to prevent easy buckets. Thats why I believe Christmas will play the 5, while Coleman will play the 4. If Coleman is really working hard on his conditioning like someone mentioned, there is no reason why he can't play the 4. He would provide great weak side rebounding ala Jackson. I honestly did not see anything from Christmas at the 4 last year and I just don't believe he is suited to play that position. He is just much more comfortable at the 5 and it showed. With that said I see Christmas exploding this year, improving his offensive game a lot.
  18. realorange

    realorange All Conference

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    If Christmas is going to play in the NBA it will be at PF. There is no reason he can't learn that position.
    Coleman is more of a wide body than Rak. He blocks out well for rebounds and will be a better scoring option at C. He'll start there from day one.
  19. SWC75

    SWC75 Bored Historian

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    Keep in mind there's no rule against having different players play the "4" and the "5" on defense and offense. You could have Christmas be the defensive center and the offensive forward and Coleman the other way around.
    ORRange likes this.
  20. orangefan13

    orangefan13 Hall of Fame

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    Rak is already a good center. We would be asking two players to learn something new if we ask Rak to move to pf and a freshmen DC to learn center. Why go away from what is already working?

    More of a stretch that both pieces will fill in then for Rak to spell center minutes and our smaller lineup to get 20 minutes at the four. We already know that works. Especially considering we are going to new isolation players on the offensive end. Nobody knows, they could be really efficient scorers.

    I love triche I do. Hes a solid defender but he kinda played third guard, and brought the defense at the times when he had the energy to do so. Guys like Dion/Fair last year always brought it. Triche reads the passing lanes well ,gets his hands up, and plays aggressive in your face defense was for short periods. But people can forget he will be logging even more minutes this year possibly taking away even more of his aggressive periods.

    MCW needs to be our perimeter defender this year and I like the idea of grant or James being one.
    I could see James always bringing it. I could see MCW always bringing it. Its just their aggressive style. Will they get beat off the dribble sure but they can be in a opponents face constantly. I don't think Triche has the stamina James and MCW do. Hes more of a slo-mo type who makes aggressive plays on both ends. Hes not the in your face type on both ends. Even his drives were better off the ball. He can play some very good extended d at times though and get his arms up.
  21. Cusefaninvirginia

    Cusefaninvirginia Walk On

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    yeah, a couple of good points here. SWC, yeah it makes a lot of sense that when both christmas and coleman are on the court at the same time, Christmas could play center on defense, while Coleman could play more like the center on offense. I agree this is the best case scenario which takes best advantage of each of their respective skill sets. but like i was saying before, this is contingent on Coleman being able to play the 4 on defense and be quick enough to defend out to the 3 pt line. That seems like a 50-50 shot to me, even with Coleman working on his conditioning all summer. I still think the most likely scenario is christmas and coleman will both start, but that there'll be a short leash on one or the other, and we'll see Fair/Southerland/Grant logging a lot of minutes at the 4.

    and i completely agree with the people pointing out that Rak's best suited to play the 4 at the next level, and so it would be good for him to learn to play the 4 effectively at SU. but i think we also might be getting a little ahead of ourselves here. what i'd like to see first happen is christmas build some real confidence as an elite player and really take his game to the next level - at whichever position he can do it at the quickest. And I think that's clearly center. if he plays a lot of center this year, i think that can happen by the end of the year - in which case we'd likely go into the tournament next year with a signicantly better defense than we did going into the tournament this past year without fab melo. After Rak's built that kind of confidence at the 5, it might be easier for him to transition into playing some 4 a little later in his college career. Besides that's kind of the traditional route for a lot of college centers anyway - to play the 5 in college and then later slide to the 4. I'd rather see that than SU not being as good as we possibly can be this year because we're patiently giving Christmas siginificant minutes at the 4 while he struggles to play effective minutes in the hope that at some point in the next year or two Christmas can have a Rick Jackson-style break-out season as an upperclassman. (Besides, who's to say -Coleman also might be better suited to play the 4 in the NBA.) But yeah this will be an interesting question once we get into the fall. Hopefully Boeheim will be able to find a lineup that includes both christmas and coleman able to play effective minutes together on the court at the same time with each other. If that can happen, I think we have a chance to challenge Louisville for the BE this year. But even if it doesn't happen because it turns out neither Rak or DaJuan are able to play effectively at the 4 this year, it's still nice having the option of playing a lot of Fair/Southerland/Grant at the 3 and 4 at the same time as an insurance policy.

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