Cooney is a selfish player

[Alsacs]

Yup and thats cooneys game although hes learning to pull up some off the dribble this year

But compared to joseph fair gbinije devendorf probably even rautins(those types of go to guys) hes going to be contested alittle bit tighter when he releases. That being the case a offbalenced shot off a screen might get less of a hand in his face.

See the comp is Andy Rautins in that Rautins was a guy with little driving and could shoot off the curl.
Cooney is a SG and Rautins was a SF. Rautins had two guards to take the perimeter defending. If we had more depth he would play less but this year he has to play. I am still mad last March JB didn't give G more minutes at SG when Cooney was struggling I was beating them drum last year to the tune of no one else.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

I wonder how Mike would react to being the focal point of the offense and in turn the focal point of the other team's defense. I want to see G with the other team's best defender in his shorts before I make a judgment of whether he should or could be the main guy.

Good coaches find ways to exploit matchup advantages, I am afraid JB will stick to what he does no matter what adjustments the other coach makes. In the UNC game Gbinije used his quickness to get past a slower forward who was initially assigned to him, then in the 2nd half Coach Williams put a smaller quicker guard to prevent him from getting the ball. Unfortunately, JB did not exploit Gbinije's size advantage by getting him closer to the basket using his size. Same thing occurred yesterday, in the1st half Gbinije used his quickness against Justice to get to the basket and his size to shoot over Cook, but in the 2nd half, Coach K made an adjustment to face guard Gbinije using Cook and with help defense when he gets away from Cook. Once again, JB made no adjustments to get Gbinije the ball inside where he can use his size advantage over Cook. I blame it on the coach because he tends to stick to the same philosophies and game plan whether or not they are working. And if anyone else have not noticed, plays are only run for Rak and Cooney, everyone else are expected to get theirs when things breakdown.

 

[orangefan13]

Yeah I see G's shot alot like Raks last year Rak lacked the touch but built the confidence as a JR, G lacked the confidence as a soph.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

As a former college athlete, I tend to stay clear of threads that thrashes a player or compare one player against another; however, in this case I go against my better judgment. I have been thinking about this issue for a while and wondering if Cooney is a selfish player, trying to do too much by himself, or perhaps lack the court vision or inability to pass the ball on breakaway situations. The better part of me thinks he is trying to do too much to be a hero for this team. I also believe he does not have the court vision since he tends to dribble with his head down. My problem with Cooney though is that by trying to do too much he hurts the teams chances at times and gives the other team some easy fast break scoring opportunities. Its pretty obvious that Cooney is a great shooter and should have the green light, but he tends to force things a bit and could use some better judgment on time of possession and situational basketball. Sometimes its best to give up a good shot for a better one and thats where I think some overall improvement can be gained. I can sight multiple situations in several games when he drives the ball to the basket and gets it swatted when he could have driven and kicked out for an open shot. A couple of examples in this game against Duke, Cooney was driving to basket for a layup and had the ball swatted by Winslow going to the basket when he could have kicked out to Gbinije for an open uncontested 3 to his right. Also, at the 4:22 mark of the 2nd half, with the game within reach, Gbinije stole the ball passed to Cooney for a 4 on 2 break, with Gbinije to his right for a wide open drive to the basket, Roberson heading the the basket with his man sealed, and Joseph open on the other wing, Cooney chose instead to stop and shoot a contested 3, which he airballed, cosequently resulting in a breakaway Okafor dunk on the other end that made the ESPN Top Plays. 4 point swing and momentum changer. This has happened more times than I care to discuss.

 

[Jack Hall]

As a former college athlete, I tend to stay clear of threads that thrashes a player or compare one player against another; however, in this case I go against my better judgment. I have been thinking about this issue for a while and wondering if Cooney is a selfish player, trying to do too much by himself, or perhaps lack the court vision or inability to pass the ball on breakaway situations. The better part of me thinks he is trying to do too much to be a hero for this team. I also believe he does not have the court vision since he tends to dribble with his head down. My problem with Cooney though is that by trying to do too much he hurts the teams chances at times and gives the other team some easy fast break scoring opportunities. Its pretty obvious that Cooney is a great shooter and should have the green light, but he tends to force things a bit and could use some better judgment on time of possession and situational basketball. Sometimes its best to give up a good shot for a better one and thats where I think some overall improvement can be gained. I can sight multiple situations in several games when he drives the ball to the basket and gets it swatted when he could have driven and kicked out for an open shot. A ouple of examples in this game against Duke, Cooney was driving to basket for a layup and had the ball swatted by Winslow going to the basket when he could have kicked out to Gbinije for an open uncontested 3 to his right. Al;so, at the 4:22 mark of the 2nd half, with the game within reach, Gbinije picked off the ball passed on forward to Cooney for a 4 on 2 break, with Gbinije to his right for a wide open drive to the basket, Roberson heading the the basket with his man sealed, and Joseph open on the other wing, Cooney chose instead to stop and shoot a contested 3, which he airballed, cosequently resulting in a breakaway Okafor dunk on the other end that made the ESPN Top Plays. 4 point swing and momentum changer. This has happenned more times than I care to discuss.

Good post, i think it all comes down to being a great role player vs being The Man. To me JSutherland, Rautins, Roe, Cipolla , Duany etc were all great role players who werent asked to do too much. Ie hit open shots and play some d. I think when TC tries to be the man and carry this team he gets into some very bad habits. Next year hopefully w G, Malachi, a healthy McC, TC can just focus on being a deadly shooter and a disruptive defender. He needs some rest too obviously but hopefully will get it next yr

 

[MikeSU02]

Meh.. He took terrible shots vs UNC and made em. Didn't see people bitching then.

Then you didn't read my posts.

That was a horrifically inefficient game by TC. And he made less than 40% of his FGA that game. So he didn't make that many of them.

 

[NKR1978]

i just laugh at this point. Cooney has bad game after bad game and he gets an eternal free pass from this board. It is what it is. You cant reason with anyone. Its pretty obvious he is not one of our 2 best players, but he takes the most shots... most of them contested and early in the shot clock. oh well.

Free pass? There are 2-3 multi page threads after every game bashing him.

 

[longislandcuse]

Good coaches find ways to exploit matchup advantages, I am afraid JB will stick to what he does no matter what adjustments the other coach makes. In the UNC game Gbinije used his quickness to get past a slower forward who was initially assigned to him, then in the 2nd half Coach Williams put a smaller quicker guard to prevent him from getting the ball. Unfortunately, JB did not exploit Gbinije's size advantage by getting him closer to the basket using his size. Same thing occurred yesterday, in the1st half Gbinije used his quickness against Justice to get to the basket and his size to shoot over Cook, but in the 2nd half, Coach K made an adjustment to face guard Gbinije using Cook and with help defense when he gets away from Cook. Once again, JB made no adjustments to get Gbinije the ball inside where he can use his size advantage over Cook. I blame it on the coach because he tends to stick to the same philosophies and game plan whether or not they are working. And if anyone else have not noticed, plays are only run for Rak and Cooney, everyone else are expected to get theirs when things breakdown.

This. People will come here and defend JB but his offense is extremely simplistic lacking even a modicum of creativity ie, mouse in the house, posting G up or getting him closer to the hoop in the 2nd half Coach K adjustment you mentioned. In 2 years of the ACC I think JB is facing much, much better coaching night in/night out than in the Big East and I think he's lost a fair share of coaching battles in our new league due to his stubbornness; this is the defense we play and this is the offense we run, no deviation.

 

[RF2044]

This. People will come here and defend JB but his offense is extremely simplistic lacking even a modicum of creativity ie, mouse in the house, posting G up or getting him closer to the hoop in the 2nd half Coach K adjustment you mentioned. In 2 years of the ACC I think JB is facing much, much better coaching night in/night out than in the Big East and I think he's lost a fair share of coaching battles in our new league due to his stubbornness; this is the defense we play and this is the offense we run, no deviation.

No, he's lost some of those matchups because we've had limited teams the past two seasons.

Coaching is very important. But great coaching can get undone by poor execution. That's often the difference between a "great" coaching move versus one that's second guessed.

In 1996, Boeheim doesn't call timeout and Wallace takes it coast to coast for a running three that gave us the win over georgia. If JDub misses that shot, not calling timeout there goes down in infamy and would be something JB would be criticized for the entire duration of his career. The line is often that fine. So was it great coaching, or just a great player making a great play? Or a little of both? Obviously, it isn't that cut and dry.

If we were running out the 2012 team instead of this year's squad, JB would be "winning" a lot more coaching battles. Frankly, given how lousy the team was to start the season, the fact that he has coached this level of improvement and made some of the adjustments he has to make the offense more effective--by far, despite still being anemic--demonstrates that he's actually done a very solid coaching job this year for the most part. We just took the #4 team in the country down to the last minute of the game. Think back to how we performed during the California game, and get back to me about the coaching job Boeheim has done.

The "this is the one defense we play and offense we play - no deviation" doesn't hold much water, IMO, and never has. There are plenty of coaches who play man full time who lose all the time, and nobody ever complains that they should play more zone or stop pressing. This bogus argument only gets made here because we do something different than most. And Indiana used to only run one offensive set when Bobby Knight was the coach. One. Wrap your head around that for a second. Knowing what's coming and being able to stop it are two different things. A little more offensive talent and a little more experience from players like Joseph / Roberson would make a huge difference. And certainly in terms of outcomes.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Nobody should take bad shots. That is an immutable fact. There is certainly no reason to take bad shots when you are having a bad game and another player on your team is scoring at will.

Its got nothing to do with shooting percentage. If he hit 60 percent of his shots, they would still be bad shots. Its process not results.

There is this misconception that he is such a good shooter than he has earned some right to take terrible shots. He's a good shooter when he is taking good shots. There are others that can score on this team if he is covered.

Roberson was unstoppable on drives to the rim tonight. Mike G was on fire. Dont act as if the only options are passing to Patterson or Joseph.

I'm torn about TC. He's a good player and one of the only viable options we have on offense. But he's so one- dimensional that he brings nothing else to the game if he's not hitting his shot.
If he has to play, fine...but that doesn't make him immune to criticism if he plays like ish the whole game.
We've got a team that's so limited that we're forced to settle for what we have because of no other options, and Cooney is just another symptom of a greater disease.
I blame Obama!!!

*Note: I keed, I keed...just to keep from crying.

 

[moqui]

chip off the ol' block

 

[Ghost]

Free pass? There are 2-3 multi page threads after every game bashing him.

I don't think that's true, but maybe we all suffer from bit of a tunnel vision at times.

 

[longislandcuse]

No, he's lost some of those matchups because we've had limited teams the past two seasons.

Coaching is very important. But great coaching can get undone by poor execution. That's often the difference between a "great" coaching move versus one that's second guessed.

In 1996, Boeheim doesn't call timeout and Wallace takes it coast to coast for a running three that gave us the win over georgia. If JDub misses that shot, not calling timeout there goes down in infamy and would be something JB would be criticized for the entire duration of his career. The line is often that fine. So was it great coaching, or just a great player making a great play? Or a little of both? Obviously, it isn't that cut and dry.

If we were running out the 2012 team instead of this year's squad, JB would be "winning" a lot more coaching battles. Frankly, given how lousy the team was to start the season, the fact that he has coached this level of improvement and made some of the adjustments he has to make the offense more effective--by far, despite still being anemic--demonstrates that he's actually done a very solid coaching job this year for the most part. We just took the #4 team in the country down to the last minute of the game. Think back to how we performed during the California game, and get back to me about the coaching job Boeheim has done.

The "this is the one defense we play and offense we play - no deviation" doesn't hold much water, IMO, and never has. There are plenty of coaches who play man full time who lose all the time, and nobody ever complains that they should play more zone or stop pressing. This bogus argument only gets made here because we do something different than most. And Indiana used to only run one offensive set when Bobby Knight was the coach. One. Wrap your head around that for a second. Knowing what's coming and being able to stop it are two different things. A little more offensive talent and a little more experience from players like Joseph / Roberson would make a huge difference. And certainly in terms of outcomes.

Limited teams!? Last year we had a senior All American and 2 guys that are currently in the NBA including 2 guys who have shown this year that they will also be given chances to play in the NBA. What more can he possibly be given? Every team not named Kentucky is limited, every year, that's not an excuse. This year, yea, we're limited but we're not so limited to be losing every close game we have to anyone that is mediocre-good.

 

[Ghost]

Limited teams!? Last year we had a senior All American and 2 guys that are currently in the NBA including 2 guys who have shown this year that they will also be given chances to play in the NBA. What more can he possibly be given? Every team not named Kentucky is limited, every year, that's not an excuse. This year, yea, we're limited but we're not so limited to be losing every close game we have to anyone that is mediocre-good.

Last year I just never quite understood the whole CJ is an ISO superstar based offense. That was my struggle overall. We also featured the weird Cooney endlessly running baseline to baseline like the energizer bunny plan of attack. Never could quite wrap my head around any of our offense last season to be honest. We were 25-0 though so was hard to argue I suppose...till we collapsed.

This year...I have a few gripes here or there, but I'm not even entirely sure what I would do with this group at times. G would be my PG a lot more though until Joseph agreed to contest threes.

 

[RF2044]

Limited teams!? Last year we had a senior All American and 2 guys that are currently in the NBA including 2 guys who have shown this year that they will also be given chances to play in the NBA. What more can he possibly be given? Every team not named Kentucky is limited, every year, that's not an excuse. This year, yea, we're limited but we're not so limited to be losing every close game we have to anyone that is mediocre-good.

Yeah, limited teams. Talk about lack of perspective.

We had a PG who was phenomenal taking care of the ball, but afforded us zero easy buckets in transition. Which was a huge problem, because [1] we lacked any semblance of inside scoring and [2] CJ Fair --who was the ultimate complimentary player--wasn't quite good enough to carry the team in an isolation based offense. Our outside shooting was inconsistent at best. And Grant was overrated, as well. We got off to a great start, but also had the ball bounce our way numerous times that enabled us to snatch victories from the jaws of defeat. The 25-0 start was deceptive, and once we got exposed a bit we closed the year on a 3-6 skid that included losing in the second round of the NCAA tournament, in a game when we failed to connect on a three point basket.

So yeah... pretty safe to say that last year's team was limited as hell. But hey, we had Grant get drafted in the 2nd round, so it is a travesty we didn't make the F4!

 

[longislandcuse]

Yeah, limited teams. Talk about lack of perspective.

We had a PG who was phenomenal taking care of the ball, but afforded us zero easy buckets in transition. Which was a huge problem, because [1] we lacked any semblance of inside scoring and [2] CJ Fair --who was the ultimate complimentary player--wasn't quite good enough to carry the team in an isolation based offense. Grant was immensely overrated, as well. We got off to a great start, but also had the ball bounce our way numerous times that enabled us to snatch victories from the jaws of defeat. The 25-0 start was deceptive, and once we got exposed a bit we closed the year on a 3-6 skid that included losing in the second round of the NCAA tournament, in a game when we failed to connect on a three point basket.

So yeah... pretty safe to say that last year's team was limited as hell. But hey, we had Grant get drafted in the 2nd round, so it is a travesty we didn't make the F4!

Well, we're not Kentucky so I guess we have a built in excuse every year.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah, limited teams. Talk about lack of perspective.

We had a PG who was phenomenal taking care of the ball, but afforded us zero easy buckets in transition. Which was a huge problem, because [1] we lacked any semblance of inside scoring and [2] CJ Fair --who was the ultimate complimentary player--wasn't quite good enough to carry the team in an isolation based offense. Our outside shooting was inconsistent at best. And Grant was overrated, as well. We got off to a great start, but also had the ball bounce our way numerous times that enabled us to snatch victories from the jaws of defeat. The 25-0 start was deceptive, and once we got exposed a bit we closed the year on a 3-6 skid that included losing in the second round of the NCAA tournament, in a game when we failed to connect on a three point basket.

So yeah... pretty safe to say that last year's team was limited as hell. But hey, we had Grant get drafted in the 2nd round, so it is a travesty we didn't make the F4!

G wasn't given minutes to develop last year. It was Ennis-Cooney-Fair-Grant-Rak-BMK and then G as the half guy. Oh well we weren't beating Florida but we could have made the Elite 8 last year.

 

[RF2044]

Well, we're not Kentucky so I guess we have a built in excuse every year.

Lots of teams aren't Kentucky. Lots of teams get by at the collegiate level without having NBA draft talent.

You are making the mistake of viewing having some as equating to automatic success. Grant and Ennis were good players, not great players, and their draft status reflected that. They could have turned into great players had they stayed, but they didn't stay. And I'm not turning this into a debate on whether they made the right decision or not, because it is irrelevant to this conversation. But its not like either one of those guys was a game changing talent. Ennis might have been if he'd stayed / improved, but as a frosh--as impressive of a year as he had, he wasn't transcendent.

I'm so tired of the "excuse" excuse. So overused on this forum. The bottom line is that we just weren't that good last year; the team lacked a few key ingredients. And we just aren't that good this year. Despite that, we've come a long way and we've improved quite a bit from where we were at the beginning of the year.

I'm watching the Wisconsin game right now--they have tremendous offense, and maybe 1 NBA player. You don't have to have a million NBA prospects on the team to field competent offense.

 

[RF2044]

G wasn't given minutes to develop last year. It was Ennis-Cooney-Fair-Grant-Rak-BMK and then G as the half guy. Oh well we weren't beating Florida but we could have made the Elite 8 last year.

G played plenty of minutes last year. G's issue was that he was an inexperienced guy who barely played at Duke, who was getting essentially his first taste of game action while being primarily asked to play out of position. Honestly, who was Gbinije going to replace in the lineup last year? CJ or Grant? Maybe Cooney--but please keep in mind that Gbinije looked awful offensively most of the year. I thought it likely before the season that he would start at 2 over Cooney, BTW, but then was very disappointed by his lack of offensive consistency starting with the canadian scrimmages on. With few exceptions, he didn't bring much offensively to the table last year.

Gbinije's versatility now is partially a function of having been thrown to the wolves as the backup PG, and working to develop his handle. Some guys aren't finished products day 1.

 

[manleyzoo]

Meh.. He took terrible shots vs UNC and made em. Didn't see people bitching then.

He was 4/13 on threes and 6/13 on twos against NC.

 

[longislandcuse]

I'm watching the Wisconsin game right now--they have tremendous offense, and maybe 1 NBA player. You don't have to have a million NBA prospects on the team to field competent offense.

Exactly. We get 10x the talent coming through this program yet haven't fielded a competent offense in years.

 

[Ghost]

G played plenty of minutes last year. G's issue was that he was an inexperienced guy who barely played at Duke, who was getting essentially his first taste of game action while being primarily asked to play out of position. Honestly, who was Gbinije going to replace in the lineup last year? CJ or Grant? Maybe Cooney--but please keep in mind that Gbinije looked awful offensively most of the year. I thought it likely before the season that he would start at 2 over Cooney, BTW, but then was very disappointed by his lack of offensive consistency starting with the canadian scrimmages on. With few exceptions, he didn't bring much offensively to the table last year.

Gbinije's versatility now is partially a function of having been thrown to the wolves as the backup PG, and working to develop his handle. Some guys aren't finished products day 1.

Plus G would quit playing defense altogether to go pick up his sneakers in the middle of tourney games. Still smack me head when I think of that. lol

 

[RF2044]

Exactly. We get 10x the talent coming through this program yet haven't fielded a competent offense in years.

Really? We just went to be he final four two years ago. Were 30-1 in the regular season three years ago, only to have far F derail things.

We were also great defensively both of those years. We haven't been last year or this year, which is as big of an issue.

And another issue is we've lost several of players the staff didn't know expect to lose. How different would this year's team / offense look with Ennis or Grant playing, or both? Think that might have had an impact?

If you honestly believe that that we haven't fielded a "competent" offense in years, you either don't watch much college ball or lack perspective even more than I thought.

 

[longislandcuse]

Really? We just went to be he final four two years ago. Were 30-1 in the regular season three years ago, only to have far F things up.

We were also great defensively both of those years. We haven't been last year or this year, which is as big of an issue.

If you honestly believe that that we haven't fielded a "competent" offense in years, you either don't watch much college ball or lack perspective even more than I thought.

We made it to the Final 4 with one of the most dominant Tourney defenses ever. That run didn't have much to do with our offense. Last years offense was absolute trash that eventually got exposed and this year with a dominant Center and 2 above average 3 point shooters we still struggle to score unless we play a team like Duke who doesn't abuse our zone to the tune of 30 seconds off the shot clock every time down.

 

[RF2044]

We made it to the Final 4 with one of the most dominant Tourney defenses ever. That run didn't have much to do with our offense. Last years offense was absolute trash that eventually got exposed and this year with a dominant Center and 2 above average 3 point shooters we still struggle to score unless we play a team like Duke who doesn't abuse our zone to the tune of 30 seconds off the shot clock every time down.

That's a gross oversimplification. Good defense AND a team that peaked offensively at the right time, with MCW and Triche--who weren't consistent shooters--suddenly becoming matchup terrors, Southerland playing well, CJ playing well, and Keita providing a modicum of inside scoring that the team utterly lacked the entire year.

It wasn't just defense. The defense also happened to be great, due to the personnel.

Think about this: we really aren't that good defensively this year, and yet we hung with Villanova at their place, #4 ranked Duke, #11 ranked UNC at their place, Pitt at their place. If we play even just a little better defensively, we win all four of those games. Complaining about the offense, this year, given the strides we've made on offense from when the season began, is off target.