Did Howard punch one of Jimmy's kids?

[Knicks411]

Man this thread was confusing me so much until I realized I had someone posting in it on ignore

 

[Townie72]

Townie...look, you can love someone but yet not love everything about them. Right?

Personally I love James Arthur Boeheim and I will ball my eyes out the day he announces his retirement. But, I do not care for his demeanor in pressers when he he acts above the question and talks down to people. And I do not like it when he berates his players during a game. These shortcomings don't prevent me from seeing all the good in the man.

Peace my brothers.

And when you attempt to summarize the guys career by saying "He only won one championship", what would you call that?

These guys obviously don't like any kind of confrontation whether its JB or someone on here taking issue with them. I, on the other hand, don't mind it a bit.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I don't know. First there was what he said in the press conference thread. Now we have this bit about the Howard thing. It seems more personal criticism than objective criticism.

Here's the thread. Show me where I said that.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/bc-and-jb-presser.99078/

Notice all the other long time posters and fans who concur with my thoughts after that presser.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

And when you attempt to summarize the guys career by saying "He only won one championship", what would you call that?

These guys obviously don't like any kind of confrontation whether its JB or someone on here taking issue with them. I, on the other hand, don't mind it a bit.

Unneeded confrontation is just that.

 

[Townie72]

Here's the thread. Show me where I said that.

http://syracusefan.com/threads/bc-and-jb-presser.99078/

Notice all the other long time posters and fans who concur with my thoughts after that presser.

You asked for it.

I just took a quick look and found the following. I am sure I can mine more stuff out of it.


You wrote, “I'm a fan of SU hoops in spite of JB. I'll admit it, I think his time is done. 40 years and 1 championship is enough.”


Millhouse wrote, “I'm glad I don't know Boeheim. I enjoy watching his teams, he does a great job, but I know I wouldn't like him”


You and some of the other usual JB-haters “liked” this.


You wrote at the end of a post, “His answer to that question also pretty much clears up any misconceptions about whether or not JB teaches fundamentals to his players. "I'm not teaching that."

This is clearly a shot.

I have found that honesty really is the best policy. If you said this --- as you did --- than you shouldn't make me prove it.

 

[HOFCeluck]

WHERE MY JB HATERZ ATTTTT

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You asked for it.

I just took a quick look and found the following. I am sure I can mine more stuff out of it.


You wrote, “I'm a fan of SU hoops in spite of JB. I'll admit it, I think his time is done. 40 years and 1 championship is enough.”


Millhouse wrote, “I'm glad I don't know Boeheim. I enjoy watching his teams, he does a great job, but I know I wouldn't like him”


You and some of the other usual JB-haters “liked” this.


You wrote at the end of a post, “His answer to that question also pretty much clears up any misconceptions about whether or not JB teaches fundamentals to his players. "I'm not teaching that."

This is clearly a shot.

I have found that honesty really is the best policy. If you said this --- as you did --- than you shouldn't make me prove it.

So that's 'viscerally not liking the guy?' I don't like some of the things he does and has done. I like many of the things he has done as well. I'm just honest enough to tell you which ones.

JB is probably man enough to take the shots I gave him in those posts. I imagine he'd tell you that he can take it without your incessant need to defend him.

 

[Ghost]

I've seen him say it in a presser, or maybe it was Roberson. Either way, JB only wants his shooters to shoot. TRob does not have a green light from 15 feet, you think Howard does from 3? JB knows what his stats are.

What? TRob takes 15 footers...what kind of red light does he have on those?

 

[Ghost]

I don't know what some of you would do if we had Frank Martin for a coach.

lol...fair point. Frank always seemed posed for a mid-game stroke.

 

[orangedave]

Walton was ripping Miller for that.

Does anyone really care what Bozo Walton has to say?

 

[NineOneSeven]

Does anyone really care what Bozo Walton has to say?

Well then it's settled.

 

[Townie72]

So that's 'viscerally not liking the guy?' I don't like some of the things he does and has done. I like many of the things he has done as well. I'm just honest enough to tell you which ones.

JB is probably man enough to take the shots I gave him in those posts. I imagine he'd tell you that he can take it without your incessant need to defend him.

After this exchange and seeing much of what you have written, "Honest" would not be one of the words I would use in your case. Instead, I think you are hyper-critical, but slippery when you are called on it. Your phrase "in spite of JB" tells me all I need to know. That sounds pretty expansive to me. I guess I missed the part where you talked about all the things you liked about him when you liked the post from Millhouse about not liking him personally.

Even you last sentence in which you say you're critical but that wouldn't bother JB is an example of the slipperiness. You are right. He wouldn't care at all what guys like you think of him. But that doesn't give you a license to criticize him incessantly.

 

[NineOneSeven]

After this exchange and seeing much of what you have written, "Honest" would not be one of the words I would use in your case. Instead, I think you are hyper-critical, but slippery when you are called on it. Your phrase "in spite of JB" tells me all I need to know. That sounds pretty expansive to me. I guess I missed the part where you talked about all the things you liked about him when you liked the post from Millhouse about not liking him personally.

Even you last sentence in which you say you're critical but that wouldn't bother JB is an example of the slipperiness. You are right. He wouldn't care at all what guys like you think of him. But that doesn't give you a license to criticize him incessantly.

 

[CuseTroop]

That's called getting a look at how the sausage is made.

I suspect if someone was in earshot of Coach K's interactions with his players, they would find he's usually not quoting from "The Little Engine That Could" either.

I used to talk with Reggie Love a lot, and we talked about this. He said K was worse than a sailor.

 

[Flacusian]

Seeing JB completely and utterly unhinged several times per game without seeing any substantive provocation is not very attractive. It's one thing to be upset about something a player does but the over the top body gestures with the attendant insane leering with in the face finger pointing and yelling is not cool.
As much as I love JB, when he careens out of control like that he is not setting a good example for his own players. It's essential that a player and especially a coach can keep the i. over the e. The intellect over the emotion. If you can't keep control over your emotions you are not much help to anyone. There have been numerous incidents when coaches crossed over the line with players and when it's happened the media is quick to pile on. I would just hate to see that happen to JB. It's not something he needs especially in light of what he has just come through being under the microscope of the NCAA , whether justifiably so or not.

Surely there are more effective ways to have a teaching moment than the way he sometimes handles miscues by his players.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Surely there are more effective ways to have a teaching moment than the way he sometimes handles miscues by his players.

His player development has such a long history of non-existence that he should heed your advice and be nice. Take the time to see if the kid is feeling okay, are classes okay, everything with the girlfriend/boyfriend/gender confused lifemate okay?

Maybe its JB's fault that, even though they covered that scenerio 10 times in practice, Franklin just didn't remember it when it mattered.

 

[Ghost]

Eh, I don't know, these all seem like fair criticisms and could be argued either way.

First, I'm not sure our player development has been all that stellar of late. A mixed bag - but probably reasonable to argue either side, good, bad, or ugly.

Second, college basketball has a ton to do with recruiting, and that aspect of the game is probably more important than coaching to some extent. OBVIOUSLY, coaching matters, but if you can recruit - you're going to be competitive. JB is a great coach in my opinion, but there are small things I wish we would implement that we seem to utilize only in the most dire of circumstances. We seem to generally make great adjustments in the zone though.

I don't know, I don't particularly like the way things shake out at times - like with FH last night. It's fine to criticize that, and still appreciate how great he is as a coach.

I hope JB coaches the team until he's 100. If I could never find out how Mike Hopkins is going to do because JB outlasts him, that's fine with me. I dread the future without him. I don't know why these arguments get so emotional for certain people - it's oddly fanboy'ish.

Bees post was probably the best accounting (educated guess?) of what we saw transpire. I would still say he overreacted, but I did notice Frank get called back as well. JB was probably already hot, and more than likely was ready to go off at anything after that - and Frank aggravated him further with some small miscues (or huge depending upon your angle I guess).

I think that's all anyone is arguing. It's quite fair to disagree - but the whole, "how dare you," routine is bizarro-world stuff on a sports forum.

 

[Flacusian]

His player development has such a long history of non-existence that he should heed your advice and be nice. Take the time to see if the kid is feeling okay, are classes okay, everything with the girlfriend/boyfriend/gender confused lifemate okay?

Maybe its JB's fault that, even though they covered that scenerio 10 times in practice, Franklin just didn't remember it when it mattered.

Capt., I enjoy your posts but you miss my point. I certainly am not saying that kids should not be yelled at or called out for making a blunder. My point is THE DEGREE to which JB verges on being out of control when it happens. He isn't doing anyone any favors when he is like that. Not his players, not his team and not himself either.

Humiliating players is not coaching. It's being abusive. Mike Rice thought that it was ok to throw basketballs at players and hurl epithets at them as well. At first he claimed it was just his brand of coaching and that some of the kids needed to "toughen up".

It isn't JB's fault that as you posit, they covered that scenario 10 times in practice...etc
But it is JBs responsibility that he has been quick to lose his temper and say things which have made him a lightening rod for criticism and to appear brazen and insensitive. It would be a shame to have JB end up being among some of the most illustrious coaches in college athletics who after incredible careers had their legacy tainted by some incident.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think very few people care. No one cares when K does it. What about Frank Martin. Tom Izzo gets after his guys. Jim Calhoun. I bet he even spit on them as he rolled,the marbles in his mouth. Rick Pitino.
All yellers. Almost all champions.

As long as the kids know it's in the moment and it's about performance and not personal I don't think it's a big deal.

 

[kirbivore]

CuseFaninVT is a staunch 'Cuse fan, not one of the consistently anti-Boeheim crowd that you called out above.

Your accusation is off-target.

just like Rutgers and Maryland will never go to the Big 10

 

[pulaski74]

I don't know what some of you would do if we had Frank Martin for a coach.

thats funny

 

[pulaski74]

His player development has such a long history of non-existence that he should heed your advice and be nice. Take the time to see if the kid is feeling okay, are classes okay, everything with the girlfriend/boyfriend/gender confused lifemate okay?

Maybe its JB's fault that, even though they covered that scenerio 10 times in practice, Franklin just didn't remember it when it mattered.

guess jb should have just put him in a time out, that would get his attn.

 

[MonsterGame]

I asked some of the all-time great coaches what their thoughts were on this are and here's their responses:

Bobby Knight: No answer, although he did throw a chair across the room.

John Wooden: No answer, although I can honestly say he does have a strong right hook.

Dean Smith: "That situation never occurred for me, I don't play freshmen unless their name is Michael Jordan. For the non-freshman, I usually didn't need to yell, just threatened them if they didn't listen, they'd have to do actual class work."

Coach K: No answer, just gave a long, mean, rat-faced type stare.

Jim Calhoun: "You seriously want to know!?! Well go steal me a laptop and I'll run the numbers for you."

Rick Pitino: "Yelling is an important part of teaching, although, this conversation is boring. Can we talk about why I recruit so well? Or better yet, I can show you."

Tom Izzo: Caught him right after a game. No answer. He did write down on a piece of paper for me that he was too hoarse to speak with me at that time.

Jim Beoheim: "Not 10 games! Not 10 games!" (I did think he was giving me his honest opinion though.)

John Calapari: "C'mon man. There's no need to yell at players. I'm a salemen. I just tell my players to listen, if they enjoy positive cash flow."