Did Howard punch one of Jimmy's kids?

[Townie72]

I don't question him getting on a kid, but why do it in such a public way on national tv?

Because the correction needs to occur close to the offense so that they player actually learns from it.

What would you suggest? Calling a time out, taking the kid back to the locker room and explaining why he shouldn't do what he just did?

 

[Townie72]

How many 39 min games does a player have to play to prove they can play 39 min????

Of course. This is just another shot at JB about his short bench strategy. In this, people who have no idea where players are physically, comment on whether they are tired or not.

 

[81South]

All sounds like a reasonable explanation, but it doesn't address the double-standard when designated stars make similar mistakes and get a free pass.

On the surface it certainly appears to be a double standard but remember what I said about coach being old school. Old school guys are more likely to believe that one has to 'pay their dues' to obtain a "longer leash". Let's use Rakeem Christmas as an recent example. In his first 3 years he was on the end of many lashings from coach. Senior year Rakeem could do no wrong...he was the man. I don't recall him getting yelled at once last year. There are other examples as well.

 

[rrlbees]

i saw a couple air balls last night.and nobody else got an earful. howard played 5 whole minutes. sometimes you let young talent play thru their mistakes. we play games tomorrow and tuesday. he can cry about the schedule but it's been posted for months.Let's see how jb's 39 minute plus strategy plays out.

Apples and oranges. For many reasons there's a difference between a Howard 3 air ball and one by G or Trevor.

 

[Cuse Action]

Because the correction needs to occur close to the offense so that they player actually learns from it.

What would you suggest? Calling a time out, taking the kid back to the locker room and explaining why he shouldn't do what he just did?

No but he could have pulled him from the game, and talked to him on the bench, instead of making a spectacle of himself. Don't tell me you haven't seen coaches get on kids, but not embarrass them.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Some of the guys on here complaining about JB's approach to Howard don't like anything about JB. They viscerally don't like the guy and will use any excuse or reason to attack him for his treatment of the Press, his use of a single defense, whatever.

Man, you love putting words in our mouths, don't you?

I'd love to see your reaction if Howard was your kid.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

On the surface it certainly appears to be a double standard but remember what I said about coach being old school. Old school guys are more likely to believe that one has to 'pay their dues' to obtain a "longer leash". Let's use Rakeem Christmas as an recent example. In his first 3 years he was on the end of many lashings from coach. Senior year Rakeem could do no wrong...he was the man. I don't recall him getting yelled at once last year. There are other examples as well.

I think what you remember from last year was Rak not giving a flying freak when JB did yell, because Rak knew that he was option 1, 2, and 3 at the position.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Apples and oranges. For many reasons there's a difference between a Howard 3 air ball and one by G or Trevor.

Can we get back to the actual reality of the play in that Howard's shot wasn't close to an airball, the shot resulted in two points, and we still had the lead by more than a comfortable margin. If we were down 5 with under a minute to play and he took that shot, or even if we were trying to maintain a lead late in a game, then yeah, you get fired up. He was looking to get fired up, and I think you may be onto something about him not being ready/able to get in when he was originally directed.

 

[Townie72]

Man, you love putting words in our mouths, don't you?

I'd love to see your reaction if Howard was your kid.

You're the one who did say you didn't like Boeheim because of the way he treated reporters. Now you are on him about what he says to players on the sideline. It's part of a pattern. You obviously intend to take any opportunity to criticize him.

And I have been through Military basic Training ... so Boeheim wouldn't scare me a bit. And a coach dressing down one of my sons wouldn't bother me. They are not as delicate as some.

 

[RF2044]

You're the one who did say you didn't like Boeheim because of the way he treated reporters. Now you are on him about what he says to players on the sideline. It's part of a pattern. You obviously intend to take any opportunity to criticize him.

And I have been through Military basic Training ... so Boeheim wouldn't scare me a bit. And a coach dressing down one of my sons wouldn't bother me. They are not as delicate as some.

CuseFaninVT is a staunch 'Cuse fan, not one of the consistently anti-Boeheim crowd that you called out above.

Your accusation is off-target.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You're the one who did say you didn't like Boeheim because of the way he treated reporters. Now you are on him about what he says to players on the sideline. It's part of a pattern. You obviously intend to take any opportunity to criticize him.

And I have been through Military basic Training ... so Boeheim wouldn't scare me a bit. And a coach dressing down one of my sons wouldn't bother me. They are not as delicate as some.

I agree, it is part of a pattern. JB's behavior toward people he feels are beneath him. And you coddling the coaches behavior.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

CuseFaninVT is a staunch 'Cuse fan, not one of the consistently anti-Boeheim crowd that you called out above.

Your accusation is off-target.

I am one of the ones that disagrees with JB's behavior toward the student reporters. I've been pretty vocal about that in the past.

EDIT - Thanks for the backup.

 

[Townie72]

No but he could have pulled him from the game, and talked to him on the bench, instead of making a spectacle of himself. Don't tell me you haven't seen coaches get on kids, but not embarrass them.

I don't know Howard.

But maybe JB tried that before and it didn't work. So he decided to ratchet up the pressure and see if Howard might catch on.

There are several posts on here pointing to the criticality of the ND game and the next four games in terms of making the NCAA's. If JB wants Howard to be a part of that, Howard cannot make stupid mistakes out there on the floor.

JB's been doing this for 40 years. He knows what works and what has to be done.

 

[Townie72]

I agree, it is part of a pattern. JB's behavior toward people he feels are beneath him. And you coddling the coaches behavior.

No. You are criticizing the guy because this type of thing --- talking down to reporters, yelling at players --- of makes you uncomfortable.

He was civil in the post game presser last night because the questions were better.

He's right. You are wrong.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

No. You are criticizing the guy because this type of thing --- talking down to reporters, yelling at players --- of makes you uncomfortable.

He was civil in the post game presser last night because the questions were better.

He's right. You are wrong.

Yup. And he's got one more championship than you and me. 40 years.

 

[Dave85]

Whether JB was justified or not, at the end of the day, this team will have a higher ceiling if Howard can be integrated. Playing 4 minutes here, garbage time there, is hardly preparing him to help the team this year, let alone next year. Either commit to the process or don't.

We've seen plenty of embarrassing JB tirades on the bench over the years... this blowup was as weird and strange as any. As the OP speculated, there might be more to the story. You don't just have an aneurysm like that over a missed rebound. Maybe he's looking to run both KJ and FH out the door to bring in 2 graduate loaners.

You do know JB is a hall of fame coach and probably knows a little more than you do.

 

[Townie72]

CuseFaninVT is a staunch 'Cuse fan, not one of the consistently anti-Boeheim crowd that you called out above.

Your accusation is off-target.

I'm pretty sure he posted, "I don't like Boeheim" in the string about the press conferences.

I think of these guys as half-SU fans. They don't like the coach. They don't like the coaching approach (short bench, etc), they don't like the coach in-waiting, and they don't like the signature zone defense.

It's unclear just exactly what is left.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I'm pretty sure he posted, "I don't like Boeheim" in the string about the press conferences.

I think of these guys as half-SU fans. They don't like the coach. They don't like the coaching approach (short bench, etc), they don't like the coach in-waiting, and they don't like the signature zone defense.

It's unclear just exactly what is left.

You're annoying.

Again, your obsession with everything Jim Boeheim (who, again, I'm a fan of) has surpassed creepy and evolved into a world that I can't even describe.

 

[81South]

I know I wouldn't like it if it were my son. I am curious to hear from those who said they wouldn't mind it if it were their son. Why would you be ok with it?

Personally, I would probably tolerate it once maybe twice before I would have a sit down with Jimmy to discuss.

For the record, I think how you would handle this is very age dependent...so for full disclosure I will state that I am a Gen-X'er.

 

[Townie72]

Yup. And he's got one more championship than you and me. 40 years.

Well, if that's the measuring stick you use, you are right.

Others might be:

Total Number of Wins / Winning Percentage
Number of times in the Top 25
Number of winning seasons
Number of seasons with 20 or more wins.
Number of Big East Championship Games
Number of Big East Championships
Number of Sweet 16's
Number of Great 8's
Number of Final Fours

Pointing to the single NCAA Championships is the only measure someone would suggest if they were interested in unfairly denigrating what the guy has done at and for SU.

 

[RF2044]

I'm pretty sure he posted, "I don't like Boeheim" in the string about the press conferences.

I think of these guys as half-SU fans. They don't like the coach. They don't like the coaching approach (short bench, etc), they don't like the coach in-waiting, and they don't like the signature zone defense.

It's unclear just exactly what is left.

And again, Cusefanin VT doesn't fit that mold.

You are making a false attribution about him, based upon one position he's taken.

 

[Townie72]

And again, Cusefanin VT doesn't fit that mold.

You are making a false attribution about him, based upon one position he's taken.

I don't know. First there was what he said in the press conference thread. Now we have this bit about the Howard thing. It seems more personal criticism than objective criticism.

 

[81South]

Townie...look, you can love someone but yet not love everything about them. Right?

Personally I love James Arthur Boeheim and I will ball my eyes out the day he announces his retirement. But, I do not care for his demeanor in pressers when he he acts above the question and talks down to people. And I do not like it when he berates his players during a game. These shortcomings don't prevent me from seeing all the good in the man.

Peace my brothers.

 

[realorange]

I don't know what some of you would do if we had Frank Martin for a coach.

 

[pearl31]

I "think", but am not 100% sure, JB was already irritated with Frank before he went in. It appeared JB told Frank to go in the game (I assume for Mali) and it seemed to take Frank too long to get to the scorers table and thus wasn't able to go on and had to wait for the next click stoppage. JB appeared irritated and told Frank to come back to the bench and have a seat.

Yeah, good catch on this. I had forgotten about that little sequence but now remember while watching the game thinking that FH must have either gone to the table too early or too late, because when he got back near the bench JB was letting him have it.
So by the time Frankie fouled for the and-1 it was effectively strike 3.