Do the refs not like boeheim?

[Cowtown]

I hear you. A little better execution, and we win.

But it sucks that we got handcuffed by poor officiating. Generally, its pointless to complain about the refs, or a play or two or a bad call or two that doesn't go your way. This wasn't that. This was a game long travesty that screwed the better team.

And despite all that, as you point out--hit a few more FTs, don't turn the ball over at the end, etc. and we STILL win. Despite the reffing incompetence.

:bang:

Better team? Well maybe not today. If I'm a 'Nova fan I'd see that they made better adjustments in the 2nd half than we did. But I'm not, haha! Good teams will always have to deal with less-than-friendly officiating, and they have to learn to play better and stronger to succeed despite that. We were basically in "controlled melt-back" mode all through the second half and we needed a leader to step up but as of yet we don't have that guy.

But I'm optimistic that this loss makes us better in the long run. Maybe not as good as a win would have, but ...

 

[RF2044]

Better team? Well maybe not today. If I'm a 'Nova fan I'd see that they made better adjustments in the 2nd half than we did. But I'm not, haha! Good teams will always have to deal with less-than-friendly officiating, and they have to learn to play better and stronger to succeed despite that. We were basically in "controlled melt-back" mode all through the second half and we needed a leader to step up but as of yet we don't have that guy.

But I'm optimistic that this loss makes us better in the long run. Maybe not as good as a win would have, but ...

Yes--better team, for today at least.

I'm not suggesting that if we played them 100 times, we'd win 50+. But we deserved to win today. We overcome the ridiculously poor officiating that blatantly advantaged villanova, put our bigs in extensive foul trouble, and still almost won. If a mere one or two of the literally dozens of questionable calls that went against us went in our favor, we win.

And I agree with what you and Doc are saying above, too--have to execute better. But today, we deserved to win, if not for a team of refs who comported themselves like they were submitting us to a proctology exam.

 

[RF2044]

And cowtown--I appreciate your perspective as a ref on this.

It is an interesting dialogue.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yeah to be honest i thought we were the better team today too.

I Know it doesn't exactly jive with Boeheims comments about scoreboards from the years ago but it is what is.

 

[Cusefan0307]

The refs sucked but "stole the game" is to far...considering how we self destructed in the last twenty seconds.

Is it considered self destruction when your best free throw shooter is thrown to the ground before we even have a chance to throw the ball in?

 

[Cheriehoop]

[QUOTE="Cowtown, post: 1234033, member: 2350"Good teams will always have to deal with less-than-friendly officiating, and they have to learn to play better and stronger to succeed despite that. We were basically in "controlled melt-back" mode all through the second half and we needed a leader to step up but as of yet we don't have that guy.

But I'm optimistic that this loss makes us better in the long run. Maybe not as good as a win would have, but ...[/QUOTE]

I'm not trying to be a smart azz but why should good teams (or even bad ones) expect to have to deal with less than friendly officials and learn to play better to overcome it? Shouldn't officials always be "neutral" observers, calling a game with absolutely no bias to any team, isn't that the basic tenet of their job? Or is that considered being naive or unrealistic now? Occasional mistakes are one thing but to expect friendly or unfriendly referees in games sure seems to be a totally unfair burden on players, coaches, teams by actually handicapping them.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I hear you. A little better execution, and we win.

But it sucks that we got handcuffed by poor officiating. Generally, its pointless to complain about the refs, or a play or two or a bad call or two that doesn't go your way. This wasn't that. This was a game long travesty that screwed the better team.

And despite all that, as you point out--hit a few more FTs, don't turn the ball over at the end, etc. and we STILL win. Despite the reffing incompetence.

:bang:

This.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Is it considered self destruction when your best free throw shooter is thrown to the ground before we even have a chance to throw the ball in?

So you were happy with the way we closed out the game?

 

[tee1222]

You be the judge. McCullough's lol "foul". Wow.
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/51...p4?versionId=66r2Yz.G41U6AFTdAsAEJHk8902wW2Sv
Corruption at its finest. Can't expect us to be good when we aren't allowed to win. What a joke.

 

[llandz]

Is it considered self destruction when your best free throw shooter is thrown to the ground before we even have a chance to throw the ball in?

Thank you. That is the point. We did NOT self destruct. You can't catch a ball if you are being tackled unless you are a football player, and that would have been a flag in football also. If we catch that ball, game over. Taking down the guy who is about to catch the ball is what lost the game for us.

 

[Cowtown]

[QUOTE="Cowtown, post: 1234033, member: 2350"Good teams will always have to deal with less-than-friendly officiating, and they have to learn to play better and stronger to succeed despite that. We were basically in "controlled melt-back" mode all through the second half and we needed a leader to step up but as of yet we don't have that guy.

But I'm optimistic that this loss makes us better in the long run. Maybe not as good as a win would have, but ...

I'm not trying to be a smart azz but why should good teams (or even bad ones) expect to have to deal with less than friendly officials and learn to play better to overcome it? Shouldn't officials always be "neutral" observers, calling a game with absolutely no bias to any team, isn't that the basic tenet of their job? Or is that considered being naive or unrealistic now? Occasional mistakes are one thing but to expect friendly or unfriendly referees in games sure seems to be a totally unfair burden on players, coaches, teams by actually handicapping them.[/QUOTE]

Should? Who said anything about "should?" What I guess I "should" have said was all teams need to learn how to adjust to officiating, especially on the road. And good teams learn to adjust and overcome that in order to win games. It's got nothing to do with the way things should be, it's just the way it is.

 

[llandz]

You be the judge. McCullough's lol "foul". Wow.
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/51...p4?versionId=66r2Yz.G41U6AFTdAsAEJHk8902wW2Sv
Corruption at its finest. Can't expect us to be good when we aren't allowed to win. What a joke.

That guy carried him 10 feet on his back. What a great video. Wonder how the ref felt after he saw that one.

 

[Cowtown]

That guy carried him 10 feet on his back. What a great video. Wonder how the ref felt after he saw that one.

That's a complete and utter fiasco. How that foul was on CM is completely inexplicable. On the replay, you can see Chris jumping near the basket, and then Hart begins to undercut the airborne player and takes him all the way out to the foul line. I wonder whether there will be any repercussions over that. I'm also thinking if JB hadn't come undone at Duke last year, he might have done it there.

And I guarantee you the ref who blew the call will rationalize it by saying CM created the contact by jumping on Hart, who then lost his balance and was struggling to regain it ... :blah: ...

 

[Cheriehoop]

That's a complete and utter fiasco. How that foul was on CM is completely inexplicable. On the replay, you can see Chris jumping near the basket, and then Hart begins to undercut the airborne player and takes him all the way out to the foul line. I wonder whether there will be any repercussions over that. I'm also thinking if JB hadn't come undone at Duke last year, he might have done it there.

And I guarantee you the ref who blew the call will rationalize it by saying CM created the contact by jumping on Hart, who then lost his balance and was struggling to regain it ... :blah: ...

Yup boxing out doesn't give one the right to the space behind you by pushing backwards.

 

[Orangeman]

You be the judge. McCullough's lol "foul". Wow.
https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/51...p4?versionId=66r2Yz.G41U6AFTdAsAEJHk8902wW2Sv
Corruption at its finest. Can't expect us to be good when we aren't allowed to win. What a joke.

Wow indeed. I had conceded that in this case they'd gotten the call right and too bad for us, but that looked like a foul on them in replay.

I remain really surprised by one thing about the officiating at the end…down two the refs would be "assuming" that Nova is going to foul. We've all seen games where that whistle is blown because the officials were quick to assume a foul had happened given time/place…so even though I actually think Cooney kinda took a dive on the last play, I'm surprised that the ref had so much restraint there (maybe I shouldn't be, but whatever)…

Reminded me of the Notre Dame football game this year, where that ref just blew his whistle on the fumbled spike because that's just what you're expecting to happen…I'm sure there's a psychological term (selection bias?) for only remembering when this happens against your teams, but pretty ironic that ref didn't give Cooney the benefit of the doubt in that situation.

And back to the video on this post, that was a foul on Villanova. The Nova player had not "established position" on that play, and created the contact into a guy leaping for a rebound. Geez

 

[Cheriehoop]

Question to Cowtown. In OOC away games what is the ruling on choosing officials? I thought usually to counter the "hometown" (friendly) effect, the officials normally are from the visitor's conference. Do you know if it's part of the contract? Did SU miss the boat by not making that demand or is it totally up to the discretion of the home team? Thanks.

 

[Cowtown]

Question to Cowtown. In OOC away games what is the ruling on choosing officials? I thought usually to counter the "hometown" (friendly) effect, the officials normally are from the visitor's conference. Do you know if it's part of the contract? Did SU miss the boat by not making that demand or is it totally up to the discretion of the home team? Thanks.

I don't know, but I'll try to find out.

 

[Cowtown]

Wow indeed. I had conceded that in this case they'd gotten the call right and too bad for us, but that looked like a foul on them in replay.

I remain really surprised by one thing about the officiating at the end…down two the refs would be "assuming" that Nova is going to foul. We've all seen games where that whistle is blown because the officials were quick to assume a foul had happened given time/place…so even though I actually think Cooney kinda took a dive on the last play, I'm surprised that the ref had so much restraint there (maybe I shouldn't be, but whatever)…

And back to the video on this post, that was a foul on Villanova. The Nova player had not "established position" on that play, and created the contact into a guy leaping for a rebound. Geez

It was a terrible set up after the timeout. 'Nova was in M2M, and all five SU players were in the back court, which took away any mid range pass over the head of a defender fronting his man. That alone took away about half the options of the inbounder.

I thought it looked like Cooney fell trying to force his way between two players, although both of them had hands all over their checks. They hadn't called that crap the whole game, so I can understand why they didn't call anything there. Trevor was not real quick in getting back up. And why do players try to fight through a space that's not as wide as they are? Go around.

But Pinkston, I believe, definitely fouled Christmas on the actual inbound right after that. F-ing Pinkston got away repeatedly with fouls (and travels) that would have been called even in the "new NBA."

 

[Cusefan0307]

So you were happy with the way we closed out the game?

No I wasn't. But what's the best option on that play. We could of stopped the three pointer, we could of not a called a timeout when Trevor was open, but it's inexcusable that the ref can swallow his whistle when the guy we are trying to get the ball in bound gets pushed to the floor two handed. If I can be pissed that the team didn't get out on the three, and pissed that G called a time out, I'm sure as he'll going to be pissed at the giant screw job the ref gave us on that last play. Even JB knew it was a load of crap.

 

[HOFCeluck]

No I wasnt.

exactly.

 

[jncuse]

I'm not going to go the conspiracy route. Just that there are many bad refs out there AND they are trying to referee with rules that have not been clearly defined in certain situations.

It seems to have bit us in the ass a little more recently in big games. But as fans we probably miss the games our opponent got the short end.