Dungey and the illegal motion penalties

[OrangePA]

Yes because clearly my comment pertained to the totality of the Pasqualoni regime.

Sorry but it was nonsensical statement - considering the entirety of Coach Pasqualoni's time in Syracuse.

That time includes 3 ten win seasons, 3 nine wins seasons, 100+ total wins, 4 Big East Championships, 13 bowl games, including Fiesta, Orange, Liberty, Gator with 9 victories.

His last year - that truly horrible season - was a 6-6 season, with a co-conference championship, and wins against BC (a truly great win), UConn, Rutgers, and Pitt and a bowl appearance.

And he did it all without the kind of football infrastructure that we now have and with a strikingly underfunded program.

You probably thought you were scoring points with some of the "conventional wisdom" leaders on this board - and you may have been right.

But the "conventional wisdom" is pure nonsense.

 

[OrangePA]

I can't really complain about the current offensive line.

I like the fact that it is a very young OL, but it can't run block at all and that's a problem.

 

[upperdeck]

really have ahard time telling what the running game issues are. is it technique with this scheme, is strength, is it talent. when you watch the backend of plays you see huge holes and defenders are missing but we seldom get the RB thru the line.. How many times have we seen gaping holes and a DLine reach out with 1 arm and drag the RB down. is that poor blocking or poor running? maybe the RB is a beat late hitting the hole and in this offense that means something? we have no history to really undertand where the issues are..

Missed blocks are easy to spot, but assignment issues not so much since it can be caused by a player, a mis read, a RB mistake?

I still think many of the running issues are mistakes that are correctable..

 

[SUFan44]

really have ahard time telling what the running game issues are. is it technique with this scheme, is strength, is it talent. when you watch the backend of plays you see huge holes and defenders are missing but we seldom get the RB thru the line.. How many times have we seen gaping holes and a DLine reach out with 1 arm and drag the RB down. is that poor blocking or poor running? maybe the RB is a beat late hitting the hole and in this offense that means something? we have no history to really undertand where the issues are..

Missed blocks are easy to spot, but assignment issues not so much since it can be caused by a player, a mis read, a RB mistake?

I still think many of the running issues are mistakes that are correctable..

Honestly I think the RB is one of the main issues. Need a true RB and not a hybrid athlete back there. In this offense, if you don't have a feel for a position and how to play it, it shows.

 

[Toga]

Sorry but it was nonsensical statement - considering the entirety of Coach Pasqualoni's time in Syracuse.

That time includes 3 ten win seasons, 3 nine wins seasons, 100+ total wins, 4 Big East Championships, 13 bowl games, including Fiesta, Orange, Liberty, Gator with 9 victories.

His last year - that truly horrible season - was a 6-6 season, with a co-conference championship, and wins against BC (a truly great win), UConn, Rutgers, and Pitt and a bowl appearance.

And he did it all without the kind of football infrastructure that we now have and with a strikingly underfunded program.

You probably thought you were scoring points with some of the "conventional wisdom" leaders on this board - and you may have been right.

But the "conventional wisdom" is pure nonsense.

Good Lord

 

[Cheriehoop]

HA. I wouldn't. There are plenty of tough guys that aren't constantly costing their team 15 yards.

Syracuse Football: Get To Know Your Orange Man - #74 Michael Hay

Marrone credited him in another article with challenging , 'toughening up' and changing the attitude of the entire offensive line while he was here. Just repeating what Marrone said.

 

[OrangePA]

Good Lord

This is what I was talking about.

 

[MSOrange]

Syracuse Football: Get To Know Your Orange Man - #74 Michael Hay

Marrone credited him in another article with challenging , 'toughening up' and changing the attitude of the entire offensive line while he was here. Just repeating what Marrone said.

Interesting. I'll give him credit for that then. I don't think I will ever be president of his fan club however.

 

[Finwad32]

It is so ridiculously hard to orchestrate an offense at this pace. I wholeheartedly agree that eventually these types of penalties need to be non-existent, and they certainly do fall on Dungey. But, when you're moving that fast, these things have a tendency to happen. I'll wager a bet that they decrease in consistency as we keep on going, but, for the time being, it's the nature of the beast IMO.

 

[ssmorol]

Sorry but it was nonsensical statement - considering the entirety of Coach Pasqualoni's time in Syracuse.

That time includes 3 ten win seasons, 3 nine wins seasons, 100+ total wins, 4 Big East Championships, 13 bowl games, including Fiesta, Orange, Liberty, Gator with 9 victories.

His last year - that truly horrible season - was a 6-6 season, with a co-conference championship, and wins against BC (a truly great win), UConn, Rutgers, and Pitt and a bowl appearance.

And he did it all without the kind of football infrastructure that we now have and with a strikingly underfunded program.

You probably thought you were scoring points with some of the "conventional wisdom" leaders on this board - and you may have been right.

But the "conventional wisdom" is pure nonsense.

I mean this has been beaten and beaten like a dead horse plenty of times here. Obviously he wasn't talking about P's entire tenure...just the end when he clearly wasn't recruiting the same and wasn't able to innovate.

The last 3 years were horrible...4-8,6-6,6-6
Not to mention the wins were vs Rhode Island, Rutgers, UCF and Va Tech
UNC, UCF, Toledo, BC, Temple and 5-7 ND in '03
In '04 Buffalo, Cincy, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt and BC. Then got drubbed in the only bowl of those 3 years.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

Sorry but it was nonsensical statement - considering the entirety of Coach Pasqualoni's time in Syracuse.

That time includes 3 ten win seasons, 3 nine wins seasons, 100+ total wins, 4 Big East Championships, 13 bowl games, including Fiesta, Orange, Liberty, Gator with 9 victories.

His last year - that truly horrible season - was a 6-6 season, with a co-conference championship, and wins against BC (a truly great win), UConn, Rutgers, and Pitt and a bowl appearance.

And he did it all without the kind of football infrastructure that we now have and with a strikingly underfunded program.

You probably thought you were scoring points with some of the "conventional wisdom" leaders on this board - and you may have been right.

But the "conventional wisdom" is pure nonsense.

With the way you constantly come to Coach P's defense each and every time someone even references something negative about SU football during his tenure, soon we may need you to prove - beyond the shadow of a doubt - that you're not actually him.

It's almost comical how you ALAWAYS fight for his legacy - no matter what is said/written in here.

Let it go, we're on our FOURTH head coach since he was fired.

 

[OttosBestFriend]

I can't really complain about the current offensive line.

Strickland, Neal and Fredericks can though.

 

[orangenauburn]

Honestly I think the RB is one of the main issues. Need a true RB and not a hybrid athlete back there. In this offense, if you don't have a feel for a position and how to play it, it shows.

There have been holes open. Guys are missing them or not hitting them quick enough (hit it after it gets filled with a second level player and don't make them miss)

It's not as bad as some make it, but it also has room for big improvement.

I think it will improve as season progresses

 

[ssmorol]

With the way you constantly come to Coach P's defense each and every time someone even references something negative about SU football during his tenure, soon we may need you to prove - beyond the shadow of a doubt - that you're not actually him.

He is actually DeLeone!

 

[RMH44]

It is so ridiculously hard to orchestrate an offense at this pace. I wholeheartedly agree that eventually these types of penalties need to be non-existent, and they certainly do fall on Dungey. But, when you're moving that fast, these things have a tendency to happen. I'll wager a bet that they decrease in consistency as we keep on going, but, for the time being, it's the nature of the beast IMO.

I can only recall two false start penalties against ND... maybe there were more. I've noticed a number of illegal formation penalties over the first 5 games which bothers me more.

As I mentioned above, on the first one Devin Butler was in the shotgun (trick play?) and he didn't wait for everyone to get set. It looked like he rushed the snap in an effort to not allow the ND defense to adjust.

On the second one, they were all lined-up but Brisley realized he wasn't on the line of scrimmage and attempted to move just before the snap drawing the flag.

Contrary to the OP these are not all on ED.

 

[sutomcat]

One was on Amba. He didn't hustle to the line of scrimmage and was just getting set when ED had the ball snapped. I guess it was on both but more on Amba. If he is tired and can't hustle, he should come out.

 

[Chip]

One was on Amba. He didn't hustle to the line of scrimmage and was just getting set when ED had the ball snapped. I guess it was on both but more on Amba. If he is tired and can't hustle, he should come out.

That's like telling Superman if he can only leap a small building in his single bound, then perhaps he should take the day off from battling evil.

Amba can make up that 5 yards in a hurry. Or free up someone else to do it.

 

[sutomcat]

That's like telling Superman if he can only leap a small building in his single bound, then perhaps he should take the day off from battling evil.

Amba can make up that 5 yards in a hurry. Or free up someone else to do it.

He has been unbelievable...

 

[Chip]

He has been unbelievable...

To your point about tired WRs, I thought it was telling that Erv was quoted (somewhere) as saying that it did tire them out. I think he was asked after that TD drop. Don't think the coach will like that comment much.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Interesting. I'll give him credit for that then. I don't think I will ever be president of his fan club however.

You're a better man than I. Very few players I've openly disliked. Hay's always been one of them.

 

[JoeSU]

Illegal shifts happen to everyone. I'll take them over the countless personal foul penalties from the Marrone/Shafer era.

Especially when our D had the opposition in 3rd down and long situations.

 

[JoeSU]

I'm pretty sure that on the first penalty D Butler was lined-up in the shotgun. I believe that was the trick play HCDB referenced in his presser.

It's funny how quickly the Wildcat formation has fallen out of favor. A few years ago, every team had some variation. Now it seems like you hardly ever see it anymore.

 

[shandeezy7]

Honestly I think the RB is one of the main issues. Need a true RB and not a hybrid athlete back there. In this offense, if you don't have a feel for a position and how to play it, it shows.

Too bad we don't have one of those on our roster /sarcasm :bang:

 

[OrangeDW]

Michael Hay just picked up another personal foul.

Matt Tarullo is jealous that Hay is outdoing him.

 

[OrangeDW]

I mean this has been beaten and beaten like a dead horse plenty of times here. Obviously he wasn't talking about P's entire tenure...just the end when he clearly wasn't recruiting the same and wasn't able to innovate.

The last 3 years were horrible...4-8,6-6,6-6
Not to mention the wins were vs Rhode Island, Rutgers, UCF and Va Tech
UNC, UCF, Toledo, BC, Temple and 5-7 ND in '03
In '04 Buffalo, Cincy, Rutgers, UConn, Pitt and BC. Then got drubbed in the only bowl of those 3 years.

Losing 51-0 and 51-14 to begin and end the season - that just really shouldn't happen. Purdue and Georgia Tech were not 40-50 points better than us.