Early Indications Are the New Viking Stadium

[Millhouse]

Either way, small stadiums don't attract recruits. You can be good with a smaller stadium...but they are good for other reasons...not because their small stadiums attracted good recruits.

i never said it. i want a smaller stadium because i think empty seats look stupid

 

[xc84]

i never said it. i want a smaller stadium because i think empty seats look stupid

Then you should have said that.

Of course they look bad. With a 44K stadium today, it would be only 70% full this year. Lots of empty seats. Win and we fill it up. I'd rather see a larger stadium full than a smaller one.

 

[Millhouse]

Then you should have said that.

Of course they look bad. With a 44K stadium today, it would be only 70% full this year. Lots of empty seats. Win and we fill it up. I'd rather see a larger stadium full than a smaller one.

you seem to think that i said that we should reduce capacity to become good again. i never said that.

i just don't think it would hurt us one bit

 

[xc84]

you seem to think that i said that we should reduce capacity to become good again. i never said that.

i just don't think it would hurt us one bit

You said that we should reduce the number of seats because:
"empty seats don't attract players"
Then you cited a bunch of mediocre to decent programs that have small stadiums as proof of your claim.

 

[OrangePA]

don't build a church for easter sunday. other schools would build a million seat stadium for that type of game.

you've talked about how large capacity stadiums bring players. i think that's kinda goofy. bigtime schools can build everything else for those players because they have huge fan bases. we're never going to have a big fan base, we need to accept it

empty seats don't attract players

Well, sorry but I think your economic theory in this instance is pretty goofy.

A fan base that draw 30,000 for BB, can certainly draw 50,000 or even 60,000 for football - provided that the football team competes at the same level that the BB team competes.

Reducing capacity does not spur fan interest. Winning at a high level spurs interest and attendance.

Somebody mentioned my experience in Philadelphia in one of the posts of this thread.

In fact, Philadelphia offers pretty good guidance. I go to about 30 Phillies games per season - I go to at least one game per series.

Back when the Phillies were winning at a high level, Citizens Bank Park was sold out every night - 45,000.

Now, with the Phillies losing a lot, we normally get between 15,000 to 23,000.

Our market is probably upwards of 5 million.

The stadium is great. The seats are great. The food is pretty good. The experience at the park is still fun.

But, attendance has dropped by nearly 30,000 per game.

The answer is not ballpark capacity. It's all about winning and losing.

Once the Phillies become a contender the fans will flock back to the park.

That's the real economics of the situation.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

Maybe we should reduce capacity because the population within a reasonable daytrip drive time is declining at a rapid clip; therefore, even a winning program will struggle to fill a large stadium.

 

[Bayside44]

Well, sorry but I think your economic theory in this instance is pretty goofy.

A fan base that draw 30,000 for BB, can certainly draw 50,000 or even 60,000 for football - provided that the football team competes at the same level that the BB team competes.

Reducing capacity does not spur fan interest. Winning at a high level spurs interest and attendance.

Somebody mentioned my experience in Philadelphia in one of the posts of this thread.

In fact, Philadelphia offers pretty good guidance. I go to about 30 Phillies games per season - I go to at least one game per series.

Back when the Phillies were winning at a high level, Citizens Bank Park was sold out every night - 45,000.

Now, with the Phillies losing a lot, we normally get between 15,000 to 23,000.

Our market is probably upwards of 5 million.

The stadium is great. The seats are great. The food is pretty good. The experience at the park is still fun.

But, attendance has dropped by nearly 30,000 per game.

The answer is not ballpark capacity. It's all about winning and losing.

Once the Phillies become a contender the fans will flock back to the park.

That's the real economics of the situation.

Philly replaced a crappy ballpark with a good one, made it a place to go while massively reduced capacity and made those games an event. Same deal here.

 

[Millhouse]

You said that we should reduce the number of seats because:
"empty seats don't attract players"
Then you cited a bunch of mediocre to decent programs that have small stadiums as proof of your claim.

you are terrible at reading.

that isn't the same as saying reducing the number of seats will attract players.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

you are terrible at reading.

that isn't the same as saying reducing the number of seats will attract players.

"you are terrible at reading" made me laugh. not picking a side here though

 

[supp]

If SU follows through it will be a state of the art deal. Parents of players will love it too.

If reducing seating to 45K is the trade off for a better stadium experience, I'll take it. If you're sensible, you build or rebuild a stadium for the next 30-40 years to come (at least?). The area is not likely to have a major population explosion in that period unless the Eastern Seaboard falls into the Atlantic. Student body too is changing (or maybe already has changed) from the 1990s. Way more exchange students, especially E. Asians/Chinese, who couldn't give a crap about football. At least basketball they've seen before but football just doesn't register. That may change, of course. I'm always amazed when I go to FedEx Field and see many of the best seats down low are taken up by Indians.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

If reducing seating to 45K is the trade off for a better stadium experience, I'll take it. If you're sensible, you build or rebuild a stadium for the next 30-40 years to come (at least?). The area is not likely to have a major population explosion in that period unless the Eastern Seaboard falls into the Atlantic. Student body too is changing (or maybe already has changed) from the 1990s. Way more exchange students, especially E. Asians/Chinese, who couldn't give a crap about football. At least basketball they've seen before but football just doesn't register. That may change, of course. I'm always amazed when I go to FedEx Field and see many of the best seats down low are taken up by Indians.

 

[cuseinchina]

i don't see why that's a big difference

we're more like stanford and baylor than the megaschools you want us to be

44,444 and make it a crazy good experience. When you cut capacity you can also raise prices once we get good again.

 

[supp]

Yes, that too. We need to take care of our lard@sses. At least 50% of the fanbase. They need all the extra space they can get.

 

[upperdeck]

i dont think any kids care that we seat 40k or 50K.. we have a dome its never going to be 100K. if its packed and loud and full of energy the recruits will think its great. USF made comment about how loud it was and it was only 30K. you put 30K in Mich/tenn and it would sound like crickets

 

[CuseOnly]

and fwiw, it's way easier and cheaper to fix the pricing first before doing anything even more expensive.

we have to get people on the sidelines even if old donors sit next to someone who didn't donate. they'll live

Funny thing about this statement is that with SU's current marketing department, I am not sure anyone would ever know about a pricing structure change.

They are absolutely horrendous about getting things out to the public.

If a tree falls in the woods...that sort of thing.

 

[Ish88888]

i don't see why that's a big difference

we're more like stanford and baylor than the megaschools you want us to be

True and when we get respectable and exciting less seats will result in the supply and demand effect. I bet over 50% of fans wait til gameday and walkup knowing nice seats are available last minute. We slightly shave the capacity as dino builds something good, tickets will be purchased before hand.

 

[Ish88888]

Reducing the capacity of the Carrier Dome in anticipation of an improved product on the field - in an environment where the popularity of the sport continues to grow exponentially - is bad economic strategy.

Respectfully disagree. The popularity of college football is NOT growing. Especially in the north, especially in the northeast, especially in NY and New England. Just ask BC . I live in albany and its mind blowing now people have no idea we have a p5 team 2 hrs west! Hell, i was in Faegans last sat 3 hrs before the usf game and found 4 people there wondering why the place was so packed. While we all love cfb, there is achuge disconnect in nys and cfb. This isnt the south or midwest.

 

[TheCusian]

Some people are just stuck in the past. Probably like some Houston and UNLV basketball fans.

I'll take 6-8 win seasons, with some down years mixed in, with a chance at a bowl every year. We just won't be a consistent top 25 program that wins 8+ games yearly. It's okay.

No. If Baylor can, we can. But it will take time.

 

[Ish88888]

Either way, small stadiums don't attract recruits. You can be good with a smaller stadium...but they are good for other reasons...not because their small stadiums attracted good recruits.

Empty seats dont attract recruits either. What attracts recruits is a gameday environment with Juice and few empty seats. If you were a recruit at the first 3 games, what would you be thinking? Boise state did it for years and there are tons of other programs that dont get >80k that kill it on gameday.

 

[CuseCactus]

Sobering thought - out here Arizona State has close to 70,000 students - that's right, 70,000. And there are 5 million people within 45 minutes of Sun Devil Stadium. They are struggling to sell out their 50,000 seat (newly refurbished) stadium.

 

[CuseCactus]

Sobering thought - out here Arizona State has close to 70,000 students - that's right, 70,000. And there are 5 million people within 45 minutes of Sun Devil Stadium. They are struggling to sell out their 50,000 seat (newly refurbished) stadium.

I'm wrong - Sun Devil Stadium was reduced from 71K to 66K. Their first game they sold 46K in tickets

 

[xc84]

Empty seats dont attract recruits either. What attracts recruits is a gameday environment with Juice and few empty seats. If you were a recruit at the first 3 games, what would you be thinking? Boise state did it for years and there are tons of other programs that dont get >80k that kill it on gameday.

Boise wins. Recruits like that.

 

[TheCusian]

Either way, small stadiums don't attract recruits. You can be good with a smaller stadium...but they are good for other reasons...not because their small stadiums attracted good recruits.

Big stadiums that are half filled make things worse, highlighting who is not there.

There are years and years of dome data, economic info, and census type data to properly decide on a number. I'd bet a small reduction wouldn't matter either way. Better amenities, aesthetics, and game day experience would help more with recruiting for this area.

 

[xc84]

Big stadiums that are half filled make things worse, highlighting who is not there.

There are years and years of dome data, economic info, and census type data to properly decide on a number. I'd bet a small reduction wouldn't matter either way. Better amenities, aesthetics, and game day experience would help more with recruiting for this area.

Look at the 90s

 

[Ish88888]

Boise wins. Recruits like that.

Chicken and the egg. They had to have recruits to win.